The superior satellite imagery of maps.live.com

[+abnerone]

Hello fellow cachers! I was thrilled to discover Microsoft's newest effort to provide a superior mapping website. In addition to the standard satellite imagery taken from straight above, they also offer a superior "birds eye view" by clicking on the icon with the buildings. Their birds eye view satellite photography appears far higher resolution than most available. It is also always taken at an angle to the ground, which in my opinion is far more useful than imagery from straight above.

 

If you go to http://maps.live.com/ you can see for yourself if you like it. The satellite imagery is available under the "Birds Eye View" icon.

 

http://maps.live.com/

 

There are a couple hurdles I wish we could solve to connect this site to the geocaching community.

 

1. It appears that this new site does not yet support the direct entry of coordinates. I have tried pasting them into the site in various formats, but it does not understand any of them. I am surprised by this, since nearly every other mapping site, handles the direct coordinates without any trouble. I have left them feedback on this, but the more feedback they get, the better chance of them listening. So go ahead and give your feedback if you have time.

 

2. If we can figure out a way for live.maps.com to handle direct coordinates, I would love for geocaching.com to add a standard direct maps.live.com link to each cache page, like they currently do for several popular sites.

 

Please chime in with any thoughts. Also, please let everyone know if you have figured out a method for entering direct coordinates. Getting a nice visual on the cache area from this site, would give clues as to the terrain, best parking, and length of hike from parking for anyone exploring direct cache possibilities for the days outing.

 

Thanks and happy caching!

 

abnerone

Edited April 24, 2007 by abnerone

[vtmtnman]

I'm sure since this is a new version they just wanted to get it out to the public.Updated versions will soon follow that may support what this one dosen't have hopefully.I'm off to go check that out now.

[knowschad]

Aberone, we in the Twin Cities area are very fortunate to have the Bird's Eye view photos (they are arial photos, not satellite, BTW), but a good many places, even some cities larger than our own, don't have them yet. I've actually found two caches without my GPS by using the photos.

[+skinnymalinky]

The photos are good, but at least 5 years old ( where i live).

[+Totem Clan]

The photos are good, but at least 5 years old ( where i live).

In my case they are at least 15 years old.

[+abnerone]

Aberone, we in the Twin Cities area are very fortunate to have the Bird's Eye view photos (they are arial photos, not satellite, BTW), but a good many places, even some cities larger than our own, don't have them yet. I've actually found two caches without my GPS by using the photos.

 

Hi knowschad...

 

I have seen your logs quite a bit around in southern tiwn cities caches, so nice to meet you on here as well. True, I do not know if the "birds eye view" imagery is from airplane based aerial photography or satellite photography. Although I figure that there would be no reason why it could not be satellite photography, since I figure a satellites camera could be programmed to shoot at the earth at that angle as well. No need to debate it, but just curious...do you know for sure that the birds eye photos were not taken from a satellite, shooting across the earth at the proper angle?

 

It is true that the quality seems to be so high, that I could see finding many caches just by printing out the birds eye photo, if we could get this site to accept the numerical coordinates.

 

See ya on the trail!

 

abnerone

[+abnerone]

Here is an example of the quality I have been since around the Twin Cities, MN area. I manually added this pushpin, at the location of a cache called "Allie and Annie's Secret" since it will not take the coords.

 

I created a tinyurl.com link for this, to prevent it from breaking in half due to the long length of the URL:

 

http://tinyurl.com/32ncbp

 

Here is what google maps shows for the same area.

 

http://tinyurl.com/39m5y4

 

http://www.geocaching.com/seek/cache_detai...6f-68faee40c00f

[+BillsBayou]

Photo for my house is not as nice as maps.google.com.

 

Your site:

 

Google:

 

I'll allow that I've only just looked at "Live.com" for the first time today. There may be something I need to select to get better images. You tell me.

 

The Live.com image is also dated by a couple of years. Live.com still shows my intact patio cover of which Hurricane Katrina ate about half. Then again, The FEMA trailer in my front yard has been gone for a few months, so Google.com is a bit dated as well.

[+abnerone]

I created a tinyurl.com link for this, to prevent it from breaking in half due to the long length of the URL:

 

http://tinyurl.com/32ncbp

 

 

FYI - I just realized that once you are within a birds eye view on the page above, that you can look at the same area from 4 directions. If you click the blue circles surrounding the triangle icon, marked N, S, W and E, it will spin around and show it from each direction. Wow.

 

It is certainly apparent that only certain areas have this birds eye view imagery. I went to an area of northern Minnesota, and the birds eye view icon with not selectable at all. So each of us, will have to check our own locations for the birds eye view imagery.

 

Let me know if someone can get it to take pasted coords!

 

abnerone

[+poohstickz]

I created a tinyurl.com link for this, to prevent it from breaking in half due to the long length of the URL:

 

http://tinyurl.com/32ncbp

 

 

FYI - I just realized that once you are within a birds eye view on the page above, that you can look at the same area from 4 directions. If you click the blue circles surrounding the triangle icon, marked N, S, W and E, it will spin around and show it from each direction. Wow.

 

It is certainly apparent that only certain areas have this birds eye view imagery. I went to an area of northern Minnesota, and the birds eye view icon with not selectable at all. So each of us, will have to check our own locations for the birds eye view imagery.

 

Let me know if someone can get it to take pasted coords!

 

abnerone

 

Try the online help.

[+abnerone]

Try the online help.

 

I did that before I posted the original message. I can't find anything about entering numerical coordinates.

[+Cpt.Blackbeard]

Then again, The FEMA trailer in my front yard has been gone for a few months, so Google.com is a bit dated as well.

 

The Google Picture for my place had to be taken in November or early December 2004, there are just so many clues I see that lets me narrow it down pretty precisly.

[+-Hawk-]

Aberone, we in the Twin Cities area are very fortunate to have the Bird's Eye view photos (they are arial photos, not satellite, BTW), but a good many places, even some cities larger than our own, don't have them yet. I've actually found two caches without my GPS by using the photos.

I found my first 5 caches with aerial photography from the now gone www.lostoutdoors.com.

[tttedzeins]

For coverage outside the US, Google Maps satellite are far superior.

[+-Hawk-]

I just checked out my neighborhood, and minus the fact that for some reason it wont display my street (just a black block), the image quality is really really good, and the images about a quarter mile north of the house are as rescent as 6 months ago...there was a house being torn down and property being cleared then,and you can see the equipment.

[+poohstickz]

Try the online help.

 

I did that before I posted the original message. I can't find anything about entering numerical coordinates.

 

Click Help in top RH corner.

Enter "latitude" or something similar in search box

select "Build your own URL"

 

There's a lot of information there that will help you, there's also an SDK but that's probably overkill for your needs. For the areas I looked at a while ago, Google had better coverage though.

[Keystone]

If we can figure out a way for live.maps.com to handle direct coordinates, I would love for geocaching.com to add a standard direct maps.live.com link to each cache page, like they currently do for several popular sites.

 

You can already access these cool maps from Geocaching.com cache pages. Simply click on the "Microsoft Map Point" link in the list of cache page mapping tools, while using Internet Explorer. IE users are redirected to the Windows Live Local map for the cache's coordinates. Firefox users are taken to the rather clunky "old" MSN maps. Gee, i wonder why that is...

[+EScout]

In my neighborhood in Los Angeles County, the Live Search site gives a better photo/clarity/resolution than Google Earth. Photo age is between 3.5 years to 10 months ago.

[+NightPilot]

The maps and aerial photos of the Houston, TX area are several years older than Google maps, and of lower resolution. You can't zoom in nearly as far. For the best views of all, try Google Earth. You can zoom, fly, and tilt to your heart's content, with fairly new images. Much, much better than maps.live.com.

[vtmtnman]

I checked it out last night.I'd stick with google earth.What PO's me even more is that both of them use some kind of weird photo for most of Vermont that won't let me zoom in more than maybe 40000 ft or so,I can't remember exactly how far right now.

[+Hose502]

Anything that is labeled as USGS is aerial photography. Satellite imagery of that detail usually comes from the IKONOS or Quickbird satellite which are owned by private companies (US companies--they could also get it from foreign sources). The bird's eye view is quite interesting. Does anyone know where they get the DEMs for that? Gotta be better than SRTM, maybe spook quality?

[+geognerd]

The oblique imagery is from a company called Pictometry and they are aerial photos. Some municipalities have also contracted with them to use their imagery in geographic information systems. I know a guy who has used them at his office and says the imagery they received was so good that he can tell if the blinds are open or shut on houses.

Edited April 25, 2007 by geognerd

[+Arndtwe]

personally, i like this

[+Team_Spirit]

Wow, very cool site!

 

I too am from the Twin Cities area, and the birdseye view is astoundingly clear. Each of the 4 views were taken at different times, all within the last 6-24 months. I'm sitting here stunned at how clearly I can see the areas where I know caches are hidden.

 

This beats Google Earth by a longshot. Thanks for posting it!

[+abnerone]

You can already access these cool maps from Geocaching.com cache pages. Simply click on the "Microsoft Map Point" link in the list of cache page mapping tools, while using Internet Explorer. IE users are redirected to the Windows Live Local map for the cache's coordinates. Firefox users are taken to the rather clunky "old" MSN maps. Gee, i wonder why that is...

 

Hey Keystone...

 

Cool, you are right. This solves a big part of the problem. It does appear that the Mappoint link on each cache page first goes to the 'old' mappoint.msn.com site. Then if the site detects, that you are on a Windows computer (not Mac), and you are using Internet Explorer (not Firefox, Opera etc) then it will forward you to maps.live.com, *AND* it uses the direct coordinates, and pinpoints the cache location. You can then switch to birds eye view, and zoom in and there is your cache location.

 

I am still struggling to figure out how to enter some form of direct coordinates into the maps.live.com location bar. The reason why this is useful, is if you are doing a puzzle cache soluiton or the 2nd stage of a multi, and want to view it in maps.live.com, but you have the coords manually in hand, instead from a link on a cache page.

 

I can see in the maps.live.com URL itself, that results from the forwarding from mappoint, it seems to use the log/lat in "pure decimal" form. So no minutes or seconds, just degrees, with decimals. The geocaching site mainly uses the degree, and then minutes with the minute decimal. (no seconds)

 

I found that the Jeeep.com link (yes, 3 e's) listed on every cache page, will take you to a converter, that will give you the log/lat in all forms, including the pure decimal form.

 

However, no matter what I try so far, I can't figure out the syntax or exact format which will make the site happy with enter numerical decimal coords.

 

I also started to explore, the "Build you own URL" help file which poohstickz pointed me to. That does look like it should work to enter the pure decimal numbers into the URL syntax. However, after trying to enter some pure decimal coords into the URL, the way it describes, I am still getting other locations in other states than what I should.

 

I will keep poking at it. Anyone else feel free to poke your own sticks at it.

 

abnerone

Edited April 25, 2007 by abnerone

[+dew cache]

I hate to tell you they are the exact same overheads as Google Earth the same car is driving by the interscetion at my house in both. The are also very old as I have several trees planted 15-20 years ago that are all taller than my house one is real small and the two pecan trees are not even in the photo.

[+Gary and Mary Adventurers]

In my area, Northern Indiana, Google wins hands down. But in other areas Live seems better. I guess it is all in the luck of the draw for what area you are looking at.

Edited April 25, 2007 by Gary and Mary Adventurers

[+Arndtwe]

In my area, Northern Indiana, Google wins hands down. But in other areas Live seems better. I guess it is all in the luck of the draw for what area you are looking at.

i completely agree!!!

[knowschad]

I hate to tell you they are the exact same overheads as Google Earth the same car is driving by the interscetion at my house in both. The are also very old as I have several trees planted 15-20 years ago that are all taller than my house one is real small and the two pecan trees are not even in the photo.

 

It sounds to me as though you (and some of the other posters) are not looking at the "Bird's Eye" photos, but the satellite imagery. They are not the same animals. Microsoft's Birds-Eye imagery is true arial photography taken from airplanes. Because they fly low, in a grid pattern, they have some perspective, and you can actually get different information by looking in a different direction.

[+abnerone]

It sounds to me as though you (and some of the other posters) are not looking at the "Bird's Eye" photos, but the satellite imagery. They are not the same animals. Microsoft's Birds-Eye imagery is true arial photography taken from airplanes. Because they fly low, in a grid pattern, they have some perspective, and you can actually get different information by looking in a different direction.

 

After more research, I have found the birds eye imagery is also called "oblique." Oblique imagery would show the side of a building, whereas straight overhead imagery would only show the roof.

 

If you are seeing imagery taking from straight up at 90 degree to the earth, then this is not the bird eye view imagery.

 

It does appear that all this imagery comes from this company and its technology:

 

http://www.pictometry.com/faq.asp

[+sbell111]

Google zooms in tighter on my house. Also, Google's is much newer. Microsoft's pic is at least seven or eight years old. Google's is from last spring.

[+Cpt.Blackbeard]

Yea, Terraservers pic of my place was taken in 1998, Googles in November/early December 2004

[+abnerone]

It does appear that the Mappoint link on each cache page first goes to the 'old' mappoint.msn.com site. Then if the site detects, that you are on a Windows computer (not Mac), and you are using Internet Explorer (not Firefox, Opera etc) then it will forward you to maps.live.com, *AND* it uses the direct coordinates, and pinpoints the cache location.

 

I have discovered that there is a way to 'trick' the old mappoint site into forwarding you to the new maps.live.com site, even if you are not using Internet Explorer on a Windows PC. You will need to change your browser 'agent' that gets reported to the web site.

 

There is a Firefox Extension that can do this. You can get it here:

 

https://addons.mozilla.org/en-US/firefox/addon/59

 

Once it is added and you restart Firefox, there will be a User Agent Switch menu, under your Tools menu. If you switch it to Internet Explorer 6 (Windows XP) then you will be forwarded.

 

The only trouble with this, is that in theory, you would want to remember to switch it back after you are done to "default." Although perhaps it would not do much harm to leave it in that agent all the time. I suspect you will have some trouble with certain high level sites if you leave it in an inaccurate setting.

Edited April 25, 2007 by abnerone

[+abnerone]

 

I also started to explore, the "Build you own URL" help file which poohstickz pointed me to. That does look like it should work to enter the pure decimal numbers into the URL syntax. However, after trying to enter some pure decimal coords into the URL, the way it describes, I am still getting other locations in other states than what I should.

 

I will keep poking at it. Anyone else feel free to poke your own sticks at it.

 

abnerone

 

I have now figured out fairly simple way to create a URL, in which you can enter any 'pure decimal' coordinates into, and get to the birds eye view oblique imagery, if your area supports it. This URL should work on any modern browser and an modern OS.

 

Keep in mind, the reason you would build your own URL like below, would be because you have coordinates you have manually figured out, which are different than the coords stored on main cache page, *and* you want to view imagery from maps.live.com, such as the birds eye view imagery.

 

My example below, is going to use the "Allie and Annie's Secret" cache in Edina, MN, found here:

 

http://www.geocaching.com/seek/cache_detai...6f-68faee40c00f

 

1. First I converted the 'degree minutes.decimal" format used by geocaching.com into the pure degree.decimal format, by clicking the jeeep.com link (or convert to NAD27 at Jeeep.com.)

 

N 44° 53.459 W 093° 19.830

becomes

44.890983 -93.3305

 

2. Using the below URL form, replace the "lat" and "long" with your coords, in both places (a total of four places.) The first instance of your coords, sets the center of the map, and is separated by a tilde ~. The second instance of your coords, puts a pushpin, at the same point, and is separated by an underscore _.

 

"http://maps.live.com/default.aspx?cp=lat~long&style=h&lvl=18&sp=an.lat_long"

 

So my new URL is:

 

"http://maps.live.com/default.aspx?cp=44.890983~-93.3305&style=h&lvl=18&sp=an.44.890983_-93.3305"

 

3. Since not all locations have birds eye view oblique imagery, I have used the "h" style (hybrid) within this URL. I am using zoom level 18, which for most locations will render the normal satellite imagery from straight above. Many locations will not render the highest level of zoom, which is 19.

 

If you want to see the birds eye view, you will then need to click the icon with the buildings on it, if available to your area. There is one additional level of zoom, once you are within the birds eye angled view. You can also click the blue circles around the triangle, to view the area from N, S, E or W. Cool.

 

Like I said, the URL form aboce uses the style of "h" which is aerial and roads hybrid. There is also "a" for aerial only, and "r" for roads. If you know your area supports the birds eye view imagery, then you can switch the "h" style to "o" which will show you the oblique imagery upon entering the URL.

 

BTW - I found that sometimes the pushpin icon did not render in birds eye view, unless I click on the pushpin in the right scratch pad area.

 

I don't know why the main search box on maps.live.com is not designed to take any coords directly. Even entering many variations of the pure degree.decimal format does yield the right result. Hopefully, they will address this in the future. Feel free to give them feedback on this.

Edited April 25, 2007 by abnerone