Paperless Caching - my experiences as a PDA Newbie

[+ForsdykeFinders]

I have now achieved my aim of paperless Caching (kinda), thanks mainly to the help and guidance received from this forum. I thought I would share my experiences to help other newbies as it was a bit of a minefield in places but well worth doing. These are my own views and I don’t want to get into any fights over preferred software/hardware etc. My aim was to bring all the bits of info I had gathered and worked out into one place.

 

Firstly, which PDA do you buy. After much trawling of the forums etc I decided on the Mitac Mio P350. The Mio P550 is much the same but has the additional WiFi capability but the budget didn’t stretch this far. I put in a few bids on Ebay but found that they were going for silly money and with risks over warranties etc decided to buy new. I also wanted TomTom6 for use in the car (which works great!). The best deal I could find was with Global Positioning Systems who dropped their price by £10 (as had found a cheaper price elsewhere). They supplied for £246.10 including a pouch type carry case (code P62701) and TomTom6 preloaded on a 512Mb SD card and next day recorded delivery.

I also bought a 2GB SD (150x Transcend) from Mediashop.co.uk. This is a high speed card, as loading maps etc onto a standard card is apparently slow. I wanted to transfer TomTom to this card and to have maps and caching software all on the one card. These guys were very helpful and also recommended the Transcend card reader (TS-RD13S) which was fully compatible with the card (you don’t really need this but is useful and I needed one for SD cards anyway).

The first thing I did once I got all the goodies was to register TomTom6. This is all explained in the literature which comes with it and is pretty straightforward. I cannot remember if it worked straight out of the box but I went into the TomTom configuration and set it to:

 

Other NMEA GPS receiver

Baud rate 4800

GPS connected to GPS_COM

 

To copy the TomTom6 over to the other card I found easy using TomTom Home. You can download this from the TomTom site. Basically backup from the old card and then restore onto the new one.

 

I then installed Memory Map (PDA>Install Pocket Navigator).

The next thing was to try loading Memory Maps to the PDA. Bear in mind that the Mio will not open files over 400mb(I think). I had to send sections of the maps to the device in order to reduce the file size (PDA>Send Visible Map Portion). The smaller 1:25,000 maps may well load on in their entirety. The configuration I use on the PDA is:

 

NMEA

Port COM 4 (I have seen others say COM2)

Baud rate 4800

 

Next was to try to go paperless. The first mystery was what ‘Pocket Queries’ are. From the Geocaching.com site go into ‘My Account’ and you can then see ‘Build Pocket Queries’ on the right hand menu. Once you create your query (which is pretty self explanatory) the site emails you the query in a zip file on the . It unzips into a GPX file format containing all the caches you selected in your Pocket Query and a Waypoints file.

Next, you have a choice of other software to install on your PC and PDA. The first one I chose was GSAK (Geocaching Swiss Army Knife). Apparently it displays a nag screen if you do not purchase after a period of time. This installs onto your PC and enables you to import your Pocket Query unzipped files(File>Load GPX/LOC file). You can then see all the caches in a table and it enables you to export the info into a number of formats.

You then need a piece of software to display them on your PDA. I chose to use Cachemate after reading some favourable reviews. GPX Sonar seems to serve a similar purpose and is free. Cachemate can be found on the Geocaching site Resources section. I think it cost about $8 to buy. You have to drop the Cachemate install file onto the PDA before running the installation. During the install you may find it useful to select GPSNAV as an additional plugin. You can use this as a cache locator similar to the display on a handheld Garmin/Magellan. Personally I didn’t think this was very good.

After you have made any changes in the GSAK list of caches, you can export to a GPX file and drop that onto your PDA (I assume you could miss out the GSAK bit and drop the extracted pocket query GPX file straight onto the PDA if you don’t wish to view the table of caches and make any changes). From Cachemate on the bottom of the screen on the PDA you will see 2 red arrows pointing to/from folders. Pick the right hand one which takes you to the ‘GPX/LOC Import’ plugin where you can find the GPX file and import it. You can now display the list of caches. You can sort on them and display hints etc.

One other useful piece of free software is Spoilersync:

http://www.anode.plus.com/spoilersync/

This allows you to download any spoiler pictures for the list of caches you imported via the Pocket Query. You just select the location of the GPX file you have on the PC and it pulls the pictures down to a selected directory. You can then copy them all across to your PDA and can view them via the Index.htm file. The neat way though is to download the Cachemate Spoiler Sync plugin from www.smittyware.com. Once installed, it will enable you to point Cachemate at the directory containing the spoiler pictures which you can then select from within the Cachemate record. This plugin comes with a txt file containing all the installation info.

 

The other things I have also done is to export my list of caches in GSAK into Memory Map format, then open up the file as an overlay on the PC. It is best to export the caches as just ‘names’ rather than ‘names and owners’ as it obliterates the map. You can then send all the caches (PDA>Send all placenames). It will then enable you to have all the caches plotted on Memory Map in the PDA. Next job is to link the Memoroy Map icons to Cachemate but that is for another day.

 

Oh also I have ordered an Aquapac from the 7 day shop (currently out of stock) and a cheap battery extender from Morpeth Mobiles.

 

I purely use the PDA for a map and alternative to reams of printed caches. I assume you can update the caches as you go but I prefer doing this back in the warm with a proper keyboard.

[+Sensei TSKC]

A nice and informative account of your experiences. Thanks.

 

Edited to remove a phantom quote.

Edited January 31, 2007 by Sensei TSKC

[+stora]

^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^

 

Why am I seeing a quote from another thread ?

[+Sensei TSKC]

^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^

 

Why am I seeing a quote from another thread ?

 

All I did was hit REPLY and wrote what is shown UNDER that quote!!! I used the QUICK EDIT button to change an inadvertently added 'Y' when it should have been a 'T'

 

Will edit that now.

[+Happy Humphrey]

A great account of how to set up in the paperless caching world!

 

A couple of things you could mention as well:

 

You can download the "Additional Waypoints for parking" to GSAK and convert them to a Tom Tom POI file, which you then load into Tom Tom.

This gives you the best approach to each cache, and when you're moving from cache to cache you can go straight there without any messing about.

For those caches without specific mention of parking, it's worth checking the cache location on Memory Map, waypointing the likely parking area, and loading these into GSAK along with the provided parking locations before creating the POI file.

 

You could mention that Memory Map on the PDA has an arrow which you can use to lead you to the cache.

 

HH

[+Archer4]

Nice summary

 

Have you got MemoryMap and TomTom running at the same time? Either via the Windows Mobile utility (that I can't get to work) or Franson GPSGate - you can have the dot moving on the OS map and spoken turn instructions coming out of TomTom...

[+Sensei TSKC]

Nice summary

 

Have you got MemoryMap and TomTom running at the same time? Either via the Windows Mobile utility (that I can't get to work) or Franson GPSGate - you can have the dot moving on the OS map and spoken turn instructions coming out of TomTom...

I tried this twice and failed miserably. I am loathed to uninstall Tom Tom again so can anyone give me an idiots guide to setting TT and MM up on a PDA using GPSGate.

 

[+yonorri]

I then installed Memory Map (PDA>Install Pocket Navigator).

The next thing was to try loading Memory Maps to the PDA. Bear in mind that the Mio will not open files over 400mb(I think). I had to send sections of the maps to the device in order to reduce the file size (PDA>Send Visible Map Portion). The smaller 1:25,000 maps may well load on in their entirety. The configuration I use on the PDA is:

 

Just to mention here that I run Anquet maps on my P550 with the whole UK 1:50K OSGB maps as a single file, just over 2GB on a 4GB card, with no problems other than it takes a while to find a new place but once there it wizzes along just fine

[+yonorri]

 

I tried this twice and failed miserably. I am loathed to uninstall Tom Tom again so can anyone give me an idiots guide to setting TT and MM up on a PDA using GPSGate.

 

 

Although not having either piece of software so am unable to test to confirm, it has been reported in other threads that it is possible to use the inbuilt MS GPS Intermediate driver to drive both MM & TT.

MM has to be started first as it deos the correct thing in starting the GPS, TT is then able to share the data...

 

See a post by yours truely and associated threads for a more detailed explanation...

[+ForsdykeFinders]

I have not tried to use MM with Tom Tom voice instructions. I have used the Tom Tom to get me to the site in the car then started MM up to help find the caches. It sounds quite neat to be able to do this. However,I assume that TT will not point you left and right once you are off the road on footpaths etc?

[+Happy Humphrey]

I have not tried to use MM with Tom Tom voice instructions. I have used the Tom Tom to get me to the site in the car then started MM up to help find the caches. It sounds quite neat to be able to do this. However,I assume that TT will not point you left and right once you are off the road on footpaths etc?

You assume correctly: in fact Tom Tom would be very annoying once you've left the road so you'd have to turn the sound off! I haven't used GPSGate fully yet (although I did download and configure it last night as a result of this thread), but I imagine you'd normally swap over from Tom Tom to Memory Map once the car is parked.

[+Sensei TSKC]

I have not tried to use MM with Tom Tom voice instructions. I have used the Tom Tom to get me to the site in the car then started MM up to help find the caches. It sounds quite neat to be able to do this. However,I assume that TT will not point you left and right once you are off the road on footpaths etc?

I think you are confused over what I am saying. It's a simple case of having TT and MM working on the same PDA using an external GPS not have TT direct me via MM.

 

The use of MM on the PDA with a GPS marker enables you to see where and in what direction you are going on MM.

[+ForsdykeFinders]

My MM gives me a marker(like a rifle sight) which like you say works when you are in the field to home in on the cache using the maps/GPS. I notice it shows a red arrow every so often indicating the general direction. On the Mio, the 2 applications seem to work okay individually ie close down TT on leaving the car and then fire up MM to home in on the cache. Do you get some other kind of marker?

I will still use the old Magellan to get me to the final cache as seems a lot more reactive than the distance box on MM.

[+Orchards Finest]

My MM gives me a marker(like a rifle sight) which like you say works when you are in the field to home in on the cache using the maps/GPS. I notice it shows a red arrow every so often indicating the general direction.

 

In MM the red arrow you see from the "rifle sight marker" is a velocity vector. It points in the direction in which you are travelling and its length is an indication of your speed. Whilst moving at speed in a car this arrow will be very long. Whilst walking it will be very short and you may not notice it

 

On the Mio, the 2 applications seem to work okay individually ie close down TT on leaving the car and then fire up MM to home in on the cache. Do you get some other kind of marker?

 

I also use TomTom in the car with the caches loaded as POI and switch to MM when walking.

If you tap and hold the stylus on the cache or mark icon in MM you will get a popup box with the option to Goto Mark. Tap this and one or more boxes will open. By tapping and holding in the box you will get further options to show bearing/distance (here you get a red arrow to follow like on a handheld GPSr), ETA etc. These boxes can be resized, so you can still see the map underneath, by dragging on the bottom right hand corner like you would do to resize boxes on a pc.

 

Instructions are for MM version 5. I imagine version 4 will have something similar.

[+ForsdykeFinders]

Do you find that MM is slow to update as you travel. I tried using in in the car yesterday on the M25. I could see the rifle sight moving along the road but it seemed to always be behind where I was actually positioned. When I slowed down or stopped (not very common on the M25 ...haha), it seemed to catchup. I noticed this when I was caching last week as well. I used the bearing/distance box but compared to the trusty old Magellan 315, it always seemed to be behind. I wondered if maybe the Baud rate settng could be increased??

[+yonorri]

Do you find that MM is slow to update as you travel.

 

I observed this once when I was doing some testing against the GPS in the P550, I was running PockeTTY and could see a perfectly valid data stream coming from the GPS, but another piece of software which was also accessing the GPS at the same time, can't rember which one but it would have had a clock, was running a good 15 seconds behind, and altough the clock was not updating all the time it was always 15 seconds out, which was odd. I think at the time I put it down to PockeTTY being a bit of a hog on processing time, but maybe not.

Haven't repeated this, but then again I haven't tried!

 

Does MM do it all the time? Or did you only observe the once?

 

And no, increasing the baud rate won't help! 4800 is well more than the NMEA data stram requires and you probably won't get any valid data at other baud rates.

Edited February 3, 2007 by yonorri

[+Happy Humphrey]

Do you find that MM is slow to update as you travel.

I've never seen this happen. I have to set the baud rate to 38400, but this probably isn't the problem.

[+ForsdykeFinders]

Took the Mio out with me today. It definately is consistently slow at updating. If you use in the car it gets a long way behind. As you stop it catches up. It evn struggles to keep up when walking and kinda jerks along the course every 20-30 secs. I have looked through all the settings and cant find anything that might fix it. TT6 works brilliantly so the unit is well capable of updating. The version of MM I installed pocket navigator from is 2004 4.4.3 build 565. Any ideas??

[+ForsdykeFinders]

 

Happy days....I found this tip on a MM forum and it has fixed the problem. I had to change the program setting in MM to COM2 from COM4 as well as unticking the box on the Access Tab:

 

With the 2004 edition of Memory-Map and Windows Mobile 5 you cannot have Windows Mobile 5 managing the GPS as this will mean the GPS position in Memory-Map will lag behind as you have seen.

 

To stop Windows managing the GPS, goto Start > Settings > System tab > GPS > Access tab and untick the box. Then tap on the Hardware tab and take a note of the GPS Hardware port (it should be COM2).

 

Now tap OK and then soft reset the PDA and then start Memory-Map. Tap Meny > GPS > Setup and check the following are set:

 

Manufacturer: NMEA

Model: N/A

Port: COM2 (or whatever you noted above)

Baud: 4800

[+keehotee]

I use an ipaq 2490, bluetoothed to a Fortuna Clip-on GPSr (with dual chips - Sirfstar II and Sirf Xtrac).

If I set the GPS to XT (Sirf xtrac) I get a lag in MM and TomTom when I'm driving - but far greater accuracy when I'm walking (averages about 2m).

If I set it to ST (Sirfstar II) there's no appreciable lag at all (but then I'm back to 6-9m accuracy).

This is apparently down to Sirf xtrac's (Sirfstar III?) additional processing, it just means if I'm driving I switch to ST and leave XT for footwork.

[+QuirkySmog]

Good thread...

 

Whilst we are on the subject of MM on the PDA,does anyone know or is it possible to lock the waypoints.

The reason i ask is i often find myself using the stylus to drag the map around and find that its all too easy to hit a waypoint and drag it away from its origonal position...

 

Any ideas.

 

BTW using V 4.2.3

[+Happy Humphrey]

Good thread...

 

Whilst we are on the subject of MM on the PDA,does anyone know or is it possible to lock the waypoints.

The reason i ask is i often find myself using the stylus to drag the map around and find that its all too easy to hit a waypoint and drag it away from its origonal position...

 

Any ideas.

 

BTW using V 4.2.3

Using 4.4.3, the waypoints are all locked just by downloading them from MM on the PC. To lock one you've set up on the PDA, select the waypoint on the map (careful not to move it), and then select "Locked".

[+ForsdykeFinders]

Whilst caching yesterday I attempted to use the direction finder (go to mark). Although my actual location on the map was being updated, the numerical location only changed every say 20 secs or so. This was a pain when getting close to the cache. I also only seemed to get the pointer arrow very sporadically. Admittedly it wasnt in a great reception area but is this normal behaviour. The realtime location on the maps now is fantastic!

[+Archer4]

Whilst caching yesterday I attempted to use the direction finder (go to mark). Although my actual location on the map was being updated, the numerical location only changed every say 20 secs or so. This was a pain when getting close to the cache. I also only seemed to get the pointer arrow very sporadically. Admittedly it wasnt in a great reception area but is this normal behaviour. The realtime location on the maps now is fantastic!

 

Same problem? Try the fix from the link...

[+ForsdykeFinders]

Hi Archer4, this looks to be the same problem. I downloaded the self extracting MMsirfsetup file from Memory Map but it reckons it isnt a Pocket PC file when I try to extract on the PDA. Am I missing something here?

[+stora]

Hi Archer4, this looks to be the same problem. I downloaded the self extracting MMsirfsetup file from Memory Map but it reckons it isnt a Pocket PC file when I try to extract on the PDA. Am I missing something here?

 

Run it from your PC. It will load onto your PDA via Activesync.

[+ForsdykeFinders]

Yes, tried that but other than coming up with a list of parameters it doesnt seem to do much and definately doesnt seem to copy over to the PDA..very odd.

I am a bit nervous messing with the SIRF on the Mio as I know if you set MM to use Sirf it screws up the unit requiring a reset. What do you reckon?

[+ForsdykeFinders]

Inore the last bit...all installed and nice easy switch for turning on and off...I like it....off to give it a try

[+ForsdykeFinders]

Works brilliantly. All in real time. This is a must have if you are running MM using the Sirf chipset ie all the new Mio's.

Will see if it will take me direct to a cache on the next trip.

 

Thanks again for all the superb support.

[+ForsdykeFinders]

All running nicely paperless but still using the PC to update the GC.com site when I get home. However, how do you go direct from the PDA to GC.com to update caches? When on hols I want to update my finds in Cachemate then dump the whole lot down when I get home.

It looks like there is an option in Cachemate to generate a GPX file from the list of caches (complete with log updates). There is also an option in GSAK to import a Cachemate GPX file which I assume will then update the list of caches on GSAK. How do you then update GC.com from GSAK? Does all this importing etc from cachemate deal with TBs/coins etc?

Apologies if I am missing something here but have hunted on various forums and cant find the answer to update GC.com.

[+Stuey]

I killed Cachemate more times than I can remember last week when on holiday. If we'd just had Cachemate as a record of caches found, we'd have been stuck (when it hangs, a soft reset will lose any unsaved data). Good job we had a backup.... Sheets of paper!

[+drsolly]

I had an interesting paperless problem today. I was doing Eastern Weston (GCWGH7), and doing it paperless. I've just checked my GSAK page for that, and it has the additional waypoints P1, S1 and S2, but not Q1, Q2 and S3, all of which are necessary to do the cache. Because GSAK didn't have it, neither did cachemate or GPXSonar. GSAK was populated using PQs.

 

This would have been a no-can-do, except that last night, I finally worked out the magic incantation that let me connect my PDA to ladysolly's mobile phone and access the internet. That gave me access to the geocaching site, and I was able to make enough progress to be able to score a DNF. Being able to access the internet when you're in the middle of a muddy field is a terrific feeling!

 

But I'm wondering why GSAK didn't get the additional waypoints. Anyone any idea - have I set my import wrongly? I told it to handle additional waypoints as child waypoints. The fact that some of them make it to GSAK makes me feel I have done it correctly.

 

I'm guessing that this is linked to the fast that the waypoints that made it to GSAK had coordinates, but the ones that didn't make it, had ??? instead of coordinates. Any ideas for how to deal with this problem?

[+Orchards Finest]

I've just checked my GSAK page for that, and it has the additional waypoints P1, S1 and S2, but not Q1, Q2 and S3, all of which are necessary to do the cache.

Basically the cache page is set up wrongly! There are a couple of other threads about this problem but Jeremy seems to think this is a non-issue and has not provided a solution.

 

Q1, Q2 and S3 have no coordinates attached to the additional waypoints and so are not given on the PQs. Hence they do not appear on GSAK. The questions attached to Q1, Q2 and S3 are also supposed to be given in the body of the text of the cache. It leads to duplication in many cases (where the page has been set up as intended) but that is the way TPTB wanted it.

[+Sensei TSKC]

I've just checked my GSAK page for that, and it has the additional waypoints P1, S1 and S2, but not Q1, Q2 and S3, all of which are necessary to do the cache.

Basically the cache page is set up wrongly! There are a couple of other threads about this problem but Jeremy seems to think this is a non-issue and has not provided a solution.

 

Q1, Q2 and S3 have no coordinates attached to the additional waypoints and so are not given on the PQs. Hence they do not appear on GSAK. The questions attached to Q1, Q2 and S3 are also supposed to be given in the body of the text of the cache. It leads to duplication in many cases (where the page has been set up as intended) but that is the way TPTB wanted it.

This is what set me off on one! I was under the impression that progress through the use of technology was to prevent duplication and additional work.

 

The way I used to write my cache pages would not have produced this problem but with the introduction of the "improved" method now requires duplication.

 

Sensible, eh?

[Edgemaster]

There is a limitation with the GPX file format, some programs crash if you give a waypoint without coordinates. I corrupted several GSAK databases by messing about in this way.

[+drsolly]

There is a limitation with the GPX file format, some programs crash if you give a waypoint without coordinates. I corrupted several GSAK databases by messing about in this way.

 

Maybe a simple workaround, would be for the owner of the pages that have this, to give phony coordinates instead of the blank ones. Maybe just copy the coords that the main page has? I'm thinking, this wouldn't be a big change to make, and would encourage paperless caching, thus saving the trees (although at the risk of exacerbating the widely forecast byte shortage).

[Edgemaster]

There is a limitation with the GPX file format, some programs crash if you give a waypoint without coordinates. I corrupted several GSAK databases by messing about in this way.

 

Maybe a simple workaround, would be for the owner of the pages that have this, to give phony coordinates instead of the blank ones. Maybe just copy the coords that the main page has? I'm thinking, this wouldn't be a big change to make, and would encourage paperless caching, thus saving the trees (although at the risk of exacerbating the widely forecast byte shortage).

This can't be done, as the coordinates are actually there, for the owner and reviewer's reference. The location is hidden but the text not. IMO, the best way to do this is to have them completely hidden (viewable only to reviewer and owner) and put the text into the cache description.