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Snoogans

Common Misconceptions That Lead to ANGST!

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The Tree Of Angst is fertilized by the handwringing Staunch Defenders Of Everything Lame.

 

Well, I wouldn't call it fertilizer. :D

 

It's also the un-named branch. (You know, the one holding the ax......)

 

It should be called something like "The Defenders of Equal Participation," or something like that. It's late and I've been moving all day. Gotta give it some thought. :D

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Another branch of the tree of angst:

 

Expectations of forum discussion too high.

 

It seems that a topic will seldom be discussed honestly.

 

Someone almost always resorts to personal attacks and/or attributing negative ulterior motives to other posters with no evidence therefor.

 

The forums seem to have (more than) their fair share of amateur psychiatrists and/or mind readers that are seemingly expert in telling posters what they are really thinking and why.

 

Posters often take things personally that were not meant that way.

 

I am firmly convinced that there are some that deliberately misunderstand posts.

 

Everything is a "dead horse". There are only so many ways to say "<insert your least favourite cache type>'s suck" and "sign the **** log or don't claim the find".

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Should you whine when you discover that some of the geocaches you've been finding didn't quite live up to your standards of fun? ABSOLUTELY NOT.

Dissent must be silenced! Only people whose views match mine have the right to verbalize their opinions! :D

 

Will whining about growth in the number of so-called lame caches cause owners of those caches to consider archiving them? Maybe.

Is doing nothing going to resolve what I perceive to be a growing problem? The U.N. certainly thinks so.

 

One thing that whining about so-called lame caches WILL almost certainly do is cause certain potential hiders of future fun caches to hesitate.

Perhaps this is where our ideology differs. You see hesitation as a bad thing, where I see it as a good thing. I am a firm believer that anything in life can be improved upon. This includes geocaches in general, especially my own caches. When I hide a cache, I don't just plop an ammo can in the bushes anymore. My first three hides were like that, and in retrospect, none of those three have a great deal of "Wow" to them. They are very basic hides. Not that a basic hide is a bad thing, but I could've done better, and have done better since. Had I "hesitated" prior to placing those three, the delay would most certainly have resulted in improvements to the overall hide quality. I will grant you that not everybody is capable of introspective evaluation, which might mean some folks who hesitate to place a cache would not improve their cache as a result, but I would think the percentage would be pretty low. If someone is bright enough to cross the street unassisted, they are most likely bright enough to see methods for self improvement.

 

If I were a newbie and had a great idea for a hide, I can see how reading you comments might scare me off from putting out the cache.

That's a good thing. You, (the hypothetical noob), have a kewl cache idea. Now stop and think it through. Try to look at your hide from an holistic viewpoint. Can your idea be improved upon? If you wanted to improve the "Wow" factor for your new hide, what would you do? There is no need to rush things. If your idea is great today, chances are it will be great tomorrow. Sleep on it. If you still can't think of any ways to improve your hide, then chances are it's gonna be pretty neat. Post that sucker and lemme go find it!

 

The enjoyment one gets from this hobby has a lot more to do with one's inner attitudes and motivations than with any specific type of existing or future hide method.

Truer words have seldom been spoken. Snoog is a person of great, yet subtle wisdom. By taking his advice long ago, ("Don't like it? Don't hunt it!), I have vastly improved my degree of enjoyment. In fact, the level of pleasure I get from this game is so high that I am constantly stoked. I can often be found out in the deep woods, wandering around small local parks and even in parking lots, grinning like an idiot thanks to the efforts of the owner of which ever cache I happen to be hunting.

 

Those of you who are bitching about other fellow participants' lack of inspiration should be ashamed of yourselves.

Those who have opinions and are brave enough to state them should never be ashamed. I'm one of those guys who feels that dissent should not be silenced.

 

Whining "WAAAA! sometimes I find caches that aren't fun" implies a lack of patience with your fellow man.

No, it indicates that I have an opinion. Nothing more. If you choose to read into my opinion until you find something that doesn't exist, that is certainly your right.

 

If my opinion makes me a "Staunch Defender of Everything Lame" then pin that big 'ol S.D.E.L. badge on my chest, and I'll wear it proudly!!

How does that one stand up comic put it?

"Here's your sign"! :D

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If my opinion makes me a "Staunch Defender of Everything Lame" then pin that big 'ol S.D.E.L. badge on my chest, and I'll wear it proudly!!

How does that one stand up comic put it?

"Here's your sign"! :D

Hey, you can't talk that way to KBI! Oh wait... I'm defending my brother.

 

I guess that makes me a S.D.E.L. too. Give me my sign.

 

:D:D:D:D:D:D

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If my opinion makes me a "Staunch Defender of Everything Lame" then pin that big 'ol S.D.E.L. badge on my chest, and I'll wear it proudly!!

How does that one stand up comic put it?

"Here's your sign"! :D

Hey, you can't talk that way to KBI! Oh wait... I'm defending my brother.

 

I guess that makes me a S.D.E.L. too. Give me my sign.

 

:D:D:D:D:D:D

 

OK. Dang it. Since you have embraced the name...... :D (It has grown on me too.)

 

How about naming the branch, "Perceived Staunch Defenders of Everything Perceived Lame. P.S.D.E.P.L.".....? :D

 

Dissent must be silenced! Only people whose views match mine have the right to verbalize their opinions!

 

Heck NO! Without dissent on these forums, I would have to get my daily smug superior feeling in the real world. That just wouldn't do. :D:D (Besides, it would take more effort.) :D

 

People ARE entitled to their opinions. I have found many a cache to be "lame" in my perception/opinion. However, I accept responsibility for my actions. When I fail to enjoy the outcome of my time & expense to hunt a cache, I don't blame the hider or dain to question ther motives. In my perception, to do so openly in an activity as intrinsicly interdependent as geocaching is......is lame. I also find that attributing lameness to an entire order of caches based on one's own perceptions to be incredibly short sighted, unfair, and openly self important. :D (Not that I'm not self import myself, but I'm at least less open about it with regard to feelings cache entitlement.) B)

 

I now tend to express these opinions of individual cache lameness verbally at events and usually only when asked. Plausable denyability is a very good thing. B)

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Ok folks the revised page 4 summary. Added content is bolded:

 

To summarize our "Geocaching Tree of Angst" so far:

 

We have an atmosphere rich with CO2 that is represented by one atom of "Entitlement" ( C ) and two atoms of "Expectation." (O2) :D

 

We have a rich medium for the growth of angst in our soil, which is represented by a common/general, "unawareness that this hobby is intrinsically linked to other people." :D

 

The water (H2O) that nourishes the tree is either actual or perceived (H2) negative interaction (O) between geocachers. :D

 

Our tree is furtilized by misconception, misinterpretation, and misunderstanding (MMM) whether actual or deliberate. :D

 

The roots of our tree are based in actual participation and experience in geocaching as an activity.... Hiding, finding, & moving trackables. :D

 

The trunk of our tree emerges over time. It is actually just individual experience that expresses itself in this way, "I know better than YOU what geocaching is supposed/intended to be all about." :D

 

From there our "Tree of Angst" branches out in many directions. Some branches sprout from the trunk and some branches think they are attacking the trunk from the other side, but are seemingly unaware that they are part of the same tree. :D

 

The named branches of our tree so far:

 

The Theory of Geocaching Evolution

 

Geocaching would be more fun for me, IF :D:D

 

Perceived Staunch Defenders of Everything Perceived Lame (P.S.D.E.P.L.)

Edited by Snoogans

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Should you whine when you discover that some of the geocaches you've been finding didn't quite live up to your standards of fun? ABSOLUTELY NOT.

Dissent must be silenced! Only people whose views match mine have the right to verbalize their opinions! :D

 

Those of you who are bitching about other fellow participants' lack of inspiration should be ashamed of yourselves.

Those who have opinions and are brave enough to state them should never be ashamed. I'm one of those guys who feels that dissent should not be silenced.

How did you get from “expressing this particular opinion is rude” to “expressing this particular opinion is not allowed?”

 

Well done. Your “misconception of KBI’s meaning that lead you to angst” has put this debate squarely back on topic. The old “Unintended” Strawman – “misinterpreting” someone so you’ll have something to argue against – has its natural home in a nest in the Tree of Angst, and returns to the nest every debate season to reproduce.

 

Yes, you have a right to express your opinion. We all do. Just because it’s your right, however, doesn’t mean it’s always advisable for you to do so. Actions have consequences – our freedoms come with responsibility. Or do you make it a habit of, say, screaming right into the face of each kindergartener in the little league game who’s lack of ability on the field caused you not to enjoy the game to your required level of satisfaction?

 

You obviously disagree strongly with my statement that the type of whining I described is not advisable. Does this mean you’re actually defending the act of rudely criticizing your fellow participants’ lack of creativity or talent every time they fail to entertain you to your required level of satisfaction?

 

 

Will whining about growth in the number of so-called lame caches cause owners of those caches to consider archiving them? Maybe.

Is doing nothing going to resolve what I perceive to be a growing problem?

No, but admitting that it’s only a problem in your perception is the first step toward your eventual tolerance and acceptance of the diversity of effort produced by your fellow participants in this game.

 

 

One thing that whining about so-called lame caches WILL almost certainly do is cause certain potential hiders of future fun caches to hesitate.

Perhaps this is where our ideology differs. You see hesitation as a bad thing, where I see it as a good thing. I am a firm believer that anything in life can be improved upon. This includes geocaches in general, especially my own caches. When I hide a cache, I don't just plop an ammo can in the bushes anymore. My first three hides were like that, and in retrospect, none of those three have a great deal of "Wow" to them. They are very basic hides. Not that a basic hide is a bad thing, but I could've done better, and have done better since. Had I "hesitated" prior to placing those three, the delay would most certainly have resulted in improvements to the overall hide quality.

I wasn’t talking about hesitation followed by improvement to the satisfaction of the Forum Judges of Lameness. I was talking about hesitation followed by the potential hider giving up out of fear of mockery from folks like you. Thus there is NO cache for you to hunt, and you never get to find out whether his cache would have entertained you or not.

 

 

I will grant you that not everybody is capable of introspective evaluation, which might mean some folks who hesitate to place a cache would not improve their cache as a result, but I would think the percentage would be pretty low. If someone is bright enough to cross the street unassisted, they are most likely bright enough to see methods for self improvement.

... to YOUR standards of greatness? What about THEIR standards? Or the standards of those who obviously enjoy finding those hides you look at with your nose in the air and call “lame?”

 

Why couldn’t you be satisfied that maybe the cache hider was unaware of your particular definition of “lame,” and liked his own cache for his own reasons? I KNOW you’re not suggesting that the hider’s dissent in this regard should be silenced.

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If I were a newbie and had a great idea for a hide, I can see how reading you comments might scare me off from putting out the cache.

That's a good thing. You, (the hypothetical noob), have a kewl cache idea. Now stop and think it through. Try to look at your hide from an holistic viewpoint. Can your idea be improved upon? If you wanted to improve the "Wow" factor for your new hide, what would you do? There is no need to rush things. If your idea is great today, chances are it will be great tomorrow. Sleep on it. If you still can't think of any ways to improve your hide, then chances are it's gonna be pretty neat. Post that sucker and lemme go find it!

How do you know he didn’t already go through that entire process before you turned your nose up at his cache and declared it “lame?”

 

 

The enjoyment one gets from this hobby has a lot more to do with one's inner attitudes and motivations than with any specific type of existing or future hide method.

Truer words have seldom been spoken. Snoog is a person of great, yet subtle wisdom. By taking his advice long ago, ("Don't like it? Don't hunt it!), I have vastly improved my degree of enjoyment.

…and you can further improve others’ enjoyment by using a bit more discretion when broadcasting your blanket criticisms.

 

 

In fact, the level of pleasure I get from this game is so high that I am constantly stoked. I can often be found out in the deep woods, wandering around small local parks and even in parking lots, grinning like an idiot thanks to the efforts of the owner of which ever cache I happen to be hunting.

Those owners deserve your gratitude. Without the amateur volunteers who hide these things we would not have this wonderful game to play. All I’m asking is a little politeness and consideration.

 

More inappropriate criticism = fewer new caches.

 

 

Whining "WAAAA! sometimes I find caches that aren't fun" implies a lack of patience with your fellow man.

No, it indicates that I have an opinion.

I'm impressed. In one single sentence you managed to defend the validity of your own opinion while simultaneously stating that my opinion is flat wrong.

 

 

If my opinion makes me a "Staunch Defender of Everything Lame" then pin that big 'ol S.D.E.L. badge on my chest, and I'll wear it proudly!!

How does that one stand up comic put it?

"Here's your sign"! :D

So now you’re calling me stupid? Don’t the Mods frown on stuff like that? Or are you unsubtly demonstrating yet another thing that leads to Angst?

 

The comic’s name is Bill Engvall, and he makes fun of people who unnecessarily state the obvious. Things like “Hey, I have a RIGHT to my opinion!!!”

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Hey Snoogans, I think I've got another one.

 

What about the misconception that all forum threads should be nothing but happy happy bunnies-and-kittens feel good mildness?

 

It hasn't happened in this thread (yet), but it seems like every time a serious debate gets cranked up on some topic where folks have strong feelings, people eventually start showing up just to say how annoyed they are with the "angst."

  • "This thread has gotten way too heated!"
  • "This thread has gone way too long!"
  • "Can't we all just get along?"
  • "This is spinning out of control!!!"
  • "This thread has stopped being happy happy bunnies-and-kittens and should be locked!!!"

It seems that sometimes folks misinterpret a boisterous academic debate as a screaming match, and feel they HAVE to chime in for no other reason than to shout "QUIET!!!!!" ... as if they can hear the thread even when they're not in it, like noise from another room.

 

If the belief that one must enjoy EVERY cache is a misconception, then so is the belief that one must enjoy EVERY forum thread. If you don't like it, don't read it -- but PLEASE don't post to the thread just to say it's bothering you. That only adds to the very noise you're complaining about. :D

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... What about the misconception that all forum threads should be nothing but happy happy bunnies-and-kittens feel good mildness? ...

Just for that, I've temporarily changed my avatar.

Edited by sbell111

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All I have to do is filter out any caches with a terrain rating of less than 2 stars, and i'm happy.
Based on this statement, why are you so angsty? You've found a way to easily avoid caches that you don't enjoy. You should be pleased.

 

Why should it matter if other people like those caches that you do not?

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Our beloved Snoogy has fairly accurately accounted for the oxygen & water that sustain his Tree Of Angst. It seems there is at least one more element to be accounted for:

The Tree Of Angst is fertilized by the handwringing Staunch Defenders Of Everything Lame. :D

Which type of posts are more fertilizery, the ones that whine about other people not liking the same things as they do or the ones that allow for other caches to like what they like?

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That links through to a July 5, 2001 post that shows Jeremy as "unregistered."

 

It feels sorta like looking back in time at the Earth when it was still cooling ...

That was dredged from the 'old' forums. We all show unregistered in those old threads.

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That links through to a July 5, 2001 post that shows Jeremy as "unregistered."

 

It feels sorta like looking back in time at the Earth when it was still cooling ...

That was dredged from the 'old' forums. We all show unregistered in those old threads.

I kinda figured it was something like that, but looking at it still makes it feel all dusty and historical – like it ought to be sepia-colored or something. Like Carleen’s find was more archeology than research.

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All I have to do is filter out any caches with a terrain rating of less than 2 stars, and i'm happy.
Based on this statement, why are you so angsty? You've found a way to easily avoid caches that you don't enjoy. You should be pleased.

 

Why should it matter if other people like those caches that you do not?

 

It's very simple, this thread was started, and I wanted to be involved in the discussion. I have an opinion on the matter, just as everyone else does.

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All I have to do is filter out any caches with a terrain rating of less than 2 stars, and i'm happy.
Based on this statement, why are you so angsty? You've found a way to easily avoid caches that you don't enjoy. You should be pleased.

 

Why should it matter if other people like those caches that you do not?

 

It's very simple, this thread was started, and I wanted to be involved in the discussion. I have an opinion on the matter, just as everyone else does.

If your opinion on the matter is not 'Everyone should like what I like', I missed it.

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If your opinion on the matter is not 'Everyone should like what I like', I missed it.

 

That is the huge downfall of internet discussions. Everyone trys to read the other poster's minds.

 

I posted my opinion about what I felt was wrong with geocaching, and I posted my solution (Hiding great caches in great locations). If I don't like I cache, I don't hunt for it. If I go on a hunt for a cache, and then realize that the cache is not what I want to do, I turn around, and leave. Occasionally, I'll post a polite note as to why I skipped the cache.

 

Do I want everyone to play exactly as I do? No

 

The only thing that I wish was more black and white in geocaching is the following:

 

A true rule as to what a find really is. (Found cache, and signed the log)

 

A computer code to prevent cachers from logging multiple attended logs on events, and to prevent them from logging finds on their own caches.

 

A complete ban on Travel Bug/ Geocoin Prisons.

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How did you get from “expressing this particular opinion is rude” to “expressing this particular opinion is not allowed?”

Remember this statement?

ABSOLUTELY NOT.

I believe that came from you.

 

Well done.

Thanx! :D

 

Or do you make it a habit of, say, screaming right into the face of each kindergartener in the little league game who’s lack of ability on the field caused you not to enjoy the game to your required level of satisfaction?

Hey, nothing like blatant exaggeration to get a guy motivated in the morning. Perhaps you could drift back to reality long enough for us to continue this debate?

 

Does this mean you’re actually defending the act of rudely criticizing your fellow participants’ lack of creativity?

What I think I'm defending is my, (and others), right to post opinions.

 

No, but admitting that it’s only a problem in your perception is the first step toward your eventual tolerance and acceptance of the diversity of effort produced by your fellow participants in this game.

Wow! Now I know I have something to look forward to. Seems that some day I'll happily embrace hide-a-keys slapped onto dumpsters behind Burger Kings, and the general degradation to the game that such a carpy hide generates. :blink: Perhaps after the lobotomy? :D I'm thinking that, so long as my IQ remains above 2 digits, I'll still have a hard time stepping in something brown & smelly, and calling it roses. Obviously your own self satisfaction allows for such leaps in logic, and I commend you for it.

 

I wasn’t talking about hesitation followed by improvement to the satisfaction of the Forum Judges of Lameness. I was talking about hesitation followed by the potential hider giving up out of fear of mockery from folks like you.

Folks who are willing to say, "A film canister stuck behind a dumpster always sux"? Those folks lame enough to create such a hide know, in their hearts, that there will always be Defenders like you to validate their own incredible lack of creativity.

 

Thus there is NO cache for you to hunt, and you never get to find out whether his cache would have entertained you or not.

I actually have a fairly active imagination. I can quite easily paint a mental picture of reaching behind a dumpster and retrieving yet another soggy log film canister reeking of funk. As such, it is not necessary for the actual "cache", (to use the term loosely), to be in place for me to determine if I'll be entertained by it.

 

... to YOUR standards of greatness? What about THEIR standards? Or the standards of those who obviously enjoy finding those hides you call “lame?”

OK, Everybody who loves nothing more than finding a soggy log film canister behind a reeking dumpster, raise your hands.....

What? Only two? Y'all must be feeling lonely. :D

 

I KNOW you’re not suggesting that the hider’s dissent in this regard should be silenced.

Unlike your earlier post, ("ABSOLUTELY NOT"), I would never suggest that dissent be silenced. Since you are implying the existence of dissent in the placement of lame hides, are you suggesting that placing a soggy log film canister behind a smelly dumpster is some form of protest? If that's the case, what are they protesting? Creativity? If these folks wish to protest creativity, or anything else for that matter, then by all means, let them sound off to their heart's content. I just think that geocaching is the wrong format for such protests. I believe the guidelines mention something to this effect.

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That is the huge downfall of internet discussions. Everyone trys to read the other poster's minds.

Exactimundo! We should have a "mind reader" icon... soothsayer gazing into a crystal ball or something...

Occasionally, I'll post a polite note as to why I skipped the cache.

THAT will win you friends and influence people. :blink:

My experience, it doesn't matter how polite you think you are. You run afoul of one of the other branches of teh tree of angst: people regard their caches as "the most beautiful baby in the world". ANYTHING you say negative about a cache is like insulting the owner's first born.

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How did you get from “expressing this particular opinion is rude” to “expressing this particular opinion is not allowed?”

Remember this statement?

ABSOLUTELY NOT.

I believe that came from you.

I already explained that your response to that partial quote was a strawman. You can take my words out of context all you like, but you're never going to convince me of anything that way.

 

Does this mean you’re actually defending the act of rudely criticizing your fellow participants’ lack of creativity?

What I think I'm defending is my, (and others), right to post opinions.

"Expressing your opinion is rude" is NOT equal to "expressing your opinion is not allowed" Two completely different concepts. Remember? Or is that confusing you somehow?

 

I told you I'm not questioning your right to your opinion. Either you're defending your appropriateness (compassion, politeness, whatever you want to call it) when criticizing your fellow volunteer, amateur cachers' lack of pizzazz or their failure to entertain you, or you aren't. Which is it?

 

No, but admitting that it’s only a problem in your perception is the first step toward your eventual tolerance and acceptance of the diversity of effort produced by your fellow participants in this game.

Wow! Now I know I have something to look forward to. Seems that some day I'll happily embrace hide-a-keys slapped onto dumpsters behind Burger Kings, and the general degradation to the game that such a carpy hide generates. :blink: Perhaps after the lobotomy? :D I'm thinking that, so long as my IQ remains above 2 digits, I'll still have a hard time stepping in something brown & smelly, and calling it roses. Obviously your own self satisfaction allows for such leaps in logic, and I commend you for it.

Hey, nothing like blatant exaggeration to get a guy motivated in the morning. Perhaps you could drift back to reality long enough for us to continue this debate?

 

I wasn’t talking about hesitation followed by improvement to the satisfaction of the Forum Judges of Lameness. I was talking about hesitation followed by the potential hider giving up out of fear of mockery from folks like you.

Folks who are willing to say, "A film canister stuck behind a dumpster always sux"?

YOU think it sucks. That is your opinion, nothing more -- therefore you are WRONG to state that "A film canister stuck behind a dumpster always sux." You can't make that statement until you've polled EVERYBODY. And I mean everybody, not just a representative sample. 100% of all cachers, zero statistical error.

 

"Always" is a tough word to defend, isn't it? :D

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Thus there is NO cache for you to hunt, and you never get to find out whether his cache would have entertained you or not.

I actually have a fairly active imagination. I can quite easily paint a mental picture of reaching behind a dumpster and retrieving yet another soggy log film canister reeking of funk. As such, it is not necessary for the actual "cache", (to use the term loosely), to be in place for me to determine if I'll be entertained by it.

That’s the essence of our difference right there. So what if you think it’s lame – it’s a thing that is hidden or camouflaged from public view and only findable via GPS coords and an awareness of this game. Some folks really, really get a thrill out of that, no matter WHERE it's hidden!! It’s like being in on a secret! To a lot of us, that’s pretty cool, no matter what brown and smelly stuff one might risk stepping into during the search.

 

You have the power to bypass the caches you don’t like. Why must you presume to tell others what they should and shouldn’t like?

 

I KNOW you’re not suggesting that the hider’s dissent in this regard should be silenced.

Unlike your earlier post, ("ABSOLUTELY NOT"), I would never suggest that dissent be silenced...

At this point you are no longer debating me. You're only debating the fictitious version of me you create when you quote me out of context. If you continue to do so there will be no reason for any further responses from the real me -- I'll just stay out of the way so you can go beat up on your fantasy version of KBI. :blink:

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No, but admitting that it’s only a problem if yin your perception is the first step toward your eventual tolerance and acceptance of the diversity of effort produced by your fellow participants in this game.

Wow! Now I know I have something to look forward to. Seems that some day I'll happily embrace hide-a-keys slapped onto dumpsters behind Burger Kings, and the general degradation to the game that such a carpy hide generates. :blink: Perhaps after the lobotomy? :D I'm thinking that, so long as my IQ remains above 2 digits, I'll still have a hard time stepping in something brown & smelly, and calling it roses. Obviously your own self satisfaction allows for such leaps in logic, and I commend you for it.

Yep. That's our society. There is no such thing as absolute truth. It is all a matter of perception.

 

Carlos Casteneda's Don Juan espoused that theory very well in "A Separate Reality".

 

Being a "muggle", in the original (Harry potter) sense of the word, I am not qualified to say for sure, but methinks "perception defining reality" only works for sorcerors.

 

I'm surprised at you, Clan Rifster. Can't you understand that if you truly believe, the smelly stuff you stepped in will truly become roses? :D

 

How dare you criticize the perception of another.

 

The sky is PINK. Deal with it.

 

Tolerance and diversity, as it is defined today, simply means there is no wrong, bad, evil, or error- except that those who SAY there ARE wrong, bad, evil and error are wrong, bad, evil, and in error.

 

So everyone gets an A+ and graduates valedictorian "we wouldn't want to bruise your precious little self esteem would we, dear."

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Tolerance and diversity, as it is defined today, simply means there is no wrong, bad, evil, or error- except that those who SAY there ARE wrong, bad, evil and error are wrong, bad, evil, and in error.

 

And Politcal Correctness is not mandatory, contrary to what the revisionist historians want us to believe. :blink:

 

 

So everyone gets an A+ and graduates valedictorian "we wouldn't want to bruise your precious little self esteem would we, dear."

 

Self Control, Self Respect, and Integrity have been thrown out the window, because the only thing that matters today is "SELF ESTEEM." With today's liberal mentality, this is closer to being a reality. Everyone is quick to silence anyone who is critical, or "mean spirited." A 35mm canister, hidden behind a dumpster, is a gift to geocaching. Someone took the time to place it there, mark the coordinates, and is willing to maintain the cache, if and when it gets approved.

 

The potential for this hider to quit hiding geocaches because someone offered criticism (could be constructive), is far more important to prevent, then hoping they wisen up, and learn to hide better caches. I know of no one who appreciates caches hidden behind dumpsters.

Edited by Kit Fox

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You can take my words out of context all you like, but you're never going to convince me of anything that way.

Your words expressed your belief that folks with an opinion differing from yours should not, ("ABSOLUTELY NOT"), express those opinions. That's pretty much in context, as far as I can tell. Feel free to call it a strawman, if twisting reality is your cup of tea. I certainly can't stop you. Personally, I think you're the type who couldn't be convinced of anything outside your own belief structure, but I could be wrong. Your stubbornness in the face of facts lends credence to this argument.

 

Remember? Or is that confusing you somehow?

Wow. Such angst. You must hate the 1st Amendment. :D

 

Either you're defending your appropriateness when criticizing your fellow cachers' lack of pizzazz or you aren't. Which is it?

Now who is confused? :D

 

Hey, nothing like blatant exaggeration to get a guy motivated in the morning.

You equated my opinion that a film canister behind a dumpster is lame, with someone screaming at kindergärtners. I felt that was an exaggeration. Presumably you don't. More power to you, Brother.

 

YOU think it sucks. That is your opinion, nothing more -- therefore you are WRONG to state that "A film canister stuck behind a dumpster always sux."

Actually, if you want to argue semantics, I would be 100% right to say that. Remember, I was posting my opinion. My opinion is that a film canister behind a dumpster always sux. Since my opinion is only applicable to me, my statement of "A film canister behind a dumpster always sux" is absolutely accurate, for me. Obviously, for good and kind folks like yourself, who love nothing more than finding film canisters behind dumpsters, that statement would not apply. That's the beauty of opinions. I have mine, you have yours, the world continues to turn.

 

"Always" is a tough word to defend, isn't it? :D

Not for those who speak English. :blink:

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You have the power to bypass the caches you don’t like.

That's precisely what I do.

 

Why must you presume to tell others what they should and shouldn’t like?

I don't recall telling anyone what they should like or dislike. As I recall, I was expressing my opinion on what I like and dislike.

 

If you continue to do so there will be no reason for any further responses from the real me

Whoo Hoo!!! Cel-e-brate good times, tonight! :blink:

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Does anyone remember what this thread is about? It has finally degraded to the slamfest that I expected it to be early on.

 

I guess that since I have never found a soggy film can hidden behind a dumpster, my perception is not the same as others, but perhaps we should all take another look at something KBI posted that was completely ignored:

... So what if you think it’s lame – it’s a thing that is hidden or camouflaged from public view and only findable via GPS coords and an awareness of this game. Some folks really, really get a thrill out of that, no matter WHERE it's hidden!! It’s like being in on a secret! To a lot of us, that’s pretty cool ...
In those few sentences, KBI hit on the very thing that makes me enjoy this childish little game of ours. Clearly, other game players think that the game should be something different. Many of them believe that it isn't geocaching unless a hike to a scenic view is made. It's fine that they believe that, but why should everyone else change their play? Edited by sbell111

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Warning:

 

Personal disputes need to be taken out of the forums and into private messages.

 

Further violations will lead to short vacations.

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:blink: Pistachio ice cream always sux.

 

Just put it on your ignor list and let me eat ice cream my own way!

I just don't understand why some people think they know the right way to eat ice cream and us Pistachio lovers should be banned. :D

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<snippet> this childish little game of ours. </ snippet>

Ahah!

The Taproot that holds this tree of angst so firmly rooted in our psyches...

We play a glorified game of "Easter-egg hunt" that somenow rises to the level of something that actually matters.

 

I have always found it interesting in organized Easter-egg hunts how the vast majority of the eggs will usually be just lying there in plain sight with their bright colours standing out from the fresh-cut grass.

 

Easter-egg hunts are primarily intended for little kids, but there are always also those who are a little too old for the game that run as fast as they can to get the most "numbers". In order that the really young can find some, we cater to the least capable hunters by placing the "lamest" of hides and telling the older kids they may not get the ones on the ground.

 

Although probably not the case a lot of times, perhaps many "lame" caches are hidden so the less skilled or less able hunters can have some success. (even if that was not the hider's motivation, it still has the same effect)

 

I see nothing wrong with this. As with the Easter-egg hunt, if a more able bodied and capable cacher wants to rush out and build their "numbers" with these caches, OK, Because unlike an Easter-egg hunt, the finder finds, signs (hopefully), and puts it back so the next hunter can enjoy it too.

 

Taproot of the tree (I hope it hasn't already been declared) : Misconception that this fine hobby somehow affects the "price of beans".

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perhaps we should all take another look at something KBI posted that was completely ignored:

... So what if you think it’s lame – it’s a thing that is hidden or camouflaged from public view and only findable via GPS coords and an awareness of this game. Some folks really, really get a thrill out of that, no matter WHERE it's hidden!! It’s like being in on a secret! To a lot of us, that’s pretty cool ...

That's pretty much the reason I love geocaching. The "being in on a secret" is really cool. It's neat that people walking past the hidden ammo can in the park (or anywhere else) don't have any idea it's there, and I'm sneaking in to find it and sneak out again.

 

It's pretty much the reason that Waymarking never did anything for me. Without the "secret" aspect I don't think I'd enjoy it. Waymarking (as I understand it) takes people to things that the public already knows about such as historical markers, McDonalds, parks, or places that the general public may not be aware of but are not really hidden from the public, such as web cams, caves, small out of the way parks, etc. There's nothing at any of these places that offers the same "in on a secret" thrill that geocaching gives me.

 

That's not a slam against Waymarking, it's only an explaination of what geocaching does for me, and why I still enjoy lamp post caches and other "lame" caches that I find.

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it’s a thing that is hidden or camouflaged from public view and only findable via GPS coords and an awareness of this game.

Yup, an excellent analogy of why I love this game so much. I'm one of those babbling retards that feels obligated to run my mouth when driving around with muggles. "There's a cache over there.... and one over there..... and one over there", whilst they roll their eyes in either amusement or disdain. This game, in all it's flavors, (except pistachio, which we all know really sux), is my biggest addiction. :blink::D:D

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it’s a thing that is hidden or camouflaged from public view and only findable via GPS coords and an awareness of this game.

Yup, an excellent analogy of why I love this game so much. I'm one of those babbling retards that feels obligated to run my mouth when driving around with muggles. "There's a cache over there.... and one over there..... and one over there", whilst they roll their eyes in either amusement or disdain. This game, in all it's flavors, (except pistachio, which we all know really sux), is my biggest addiction. :blink::D:D

been there done that. :D

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Warning:

 

Personal disputes need to be taken out of the forums and into private messages.

 

Further violations will lead to short vacations.

My apologies to Snoogans. Sometimes I forget which thread I'm in. :blink:

 

I would like to invite everyone who is interested in continuing the "lame cache" discussion to follow me to the current lame cache thread.

 

Let's keep it non-personal. :D

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Someone took the time to place it there, mark the coordinates, and is willing to maintain the cache , if and when it gets approved.

 

Hrm. And your evidence to support the highlighted statement is...??? :laughing:

 

My personal experience is that quite a few hiders in my area are NOT willing to maintain their caches, and that the film canisters and hide-a-keys are more likely to fall in that category. Admittedly, most of the hiders who don't maintain are people who lost interest or moved away, but some are still quite active in finding.

 

And then there are the hides put out in a state that already needs maintenance....

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... My personal experience is that quite a few hiders in my area are NOT willing to maintain their caches, and that the film canisters and hide-a-keys are more likely to fall in that category. Admittedly, most of the hiders who don't maintain are people who lost interest or moved away, but some are still quite active in finding. ...
My belief is that there are some cache owners who don't do timely maintenance. It appears, sometimes, that there are more micro owners that don't do this maintenance, but I believe that this is not correct. I believe that the facts that urban micros require more maintenance and owners of these caches often to place many similar caches tend to skew our perception.

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The Tree Of Angst is fertilized by the handwringing Staunch Defenders Of Everything Lame.

 

Well, I wouldn't call it fertilizer. :laughing:

 

It's also the un-named branch. (You know, the one holding the ax......)

 

It should be called something like "The Defenders of Equal Participation," or something like that. It's late and I've been moving all day. Gotta give it some thought. :laughing:

 

Hell, I'd rather defend lame, than be the one to proclaim it.

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Someone took the time to place it there, mark the coordinates, and is willing to maintain the cache , if and when it gets approved.

 

Hrm. And your evidence to support the highlighted statement is...??? :laughing:

 

My personal experience is that quite a few hiders in my area are NOT willing to maintain their caches, and that the film canisters and hide-a-keys are more likely to fall in that category. Admittedly, most of the hiders who don't maintain are people who lost interest or moved away, but some are still quite active in finding.

 

And then there are the hides put out in a state that already needs maintenance....

 

I was being facetious. KBI wants us to believe that all caches are a gift that should be accepted with open arms, and I decided to play devil's advocate. :laughing:

 

In my experience, most of the lame caches are quickest to disappear (high visibility areas), quick to become waterlogged (shoddy container, poorly planned location,) and rather than being maintained, said caches get quickly archived, so more "equally lame" caches can replace those, and everyone gets another smiley. :ph34r:

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Because geocaching has involved into two groups, the "in it for the numbers" crowd, and the more traditional, "in it for the adventure" group. Geocaching would be more fun for me, if remote caches, with higher terrain ratings were "worth more." ...
I disagree with your premise that geocachers fit into your two groups.

 

Some times I want to go and get 30-40 in a day and other times, I'm satisfied in getting only a few on a nice hike.

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Snoogs, I've got to hand it to you- you created a thread to discuss the roots of angst, and in doing so CREATED ANGST! Brilliant!

 

I'm still holding to my original point about angst- it stems from people being unaware that this hobby is intrinsically linked to other people. If I'm playing golf by myself, and want to score it any ol' way, it doesn't truly affect anyone else. I can play "my game, my way." So what if I use the little cheat codes when I play video games. I'll play "my game, my way."

 

Geocaching isn't like that, though. Just about every action connects to another person. Hiding, finding, moving trackeables ALWAYS connects to one or more parties. It's this disregard ("my game, my way") that is at the root (or is the fertilizer) of angst. Now do I think it SHOULD cause angst? Heck no! I would never let a game affect me like that.

 

I cited several examples, but I'll throw another one in there- the way we discuss issues in the forums, and a disregard of the link.

 

Again, I've yet to find a geocaching-related issue that caused ME angst, but for those prone to allow themselves to feel it, the forums can fuel that fire. Just look at the snippiness in this thread alone!

 

BTW- I'd be willing to bet the folks in these very forums that allow themselves to actually get irritated at an internet discussion group revolving around a HOBBY probably get annoyed at the lines at the grocery store, traffic, rap music, or any other number of inane issues. Most people who feel angst LIKE being in that state of mind, and will help you feel that way too- if you let them.

Edited by Googling Hrpty Hrrs

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KBI wants us to believe that all caches are a gift that should be accepted with open arms

I don't think that's what KBI was saying at all.

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... KBI wants us to believe that all caches are a gift that should be accepted with open arms, ...

I think that KBI's position is similar to mine.

 

Each cache is a gift. Each of us can either accept that gift and go find the cache or decline the gift and ignore the cache.

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... KBI wants us to believe that all caches are a gift that should be accepted with open arms, ...

I think that KBI's position is similar to mine.

 

Each cache is a gift. Each of us can either accept that gift and go find the cache or decline the gift and ignore the cache.

 

That about sums it up.

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... KBI wants us to believe that all caches are a gift that should be accepted with open arms, ...

I think that KBI's position is similar to mine.

 

Each cache is a gift. Each of us can either accept that gift and go find the cache or decline the gift and ignore the cache.

Indeed. Not every cache has to be accepted by everyone with open arms. But if you don't like the gift, there's someone else that will, and there's no reason to try to keep them from enjoying it.

 

Go find the gifts that you enjoy, and embrace those.

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Indeed. Not every cache has to be accepted by everyone with open arms. But if you don't like the gift, there's someone else that will, and there's no reason to try to keep them from enjoying it.

 

Go find the gifts that you enjoy, and embrace those.

 

But, based on my earlier post, I have difficulties finding those particular caches that I would enjoy.

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BTW- I'd be willing to bet the folks in these very forums that allow themselves to actually get irritated at an internet discussion group revolving around a HOBBY probably get annoyed at the lines at the grocery store, traffic, rap music, or any other number of inane issues.

My own angst meter: (0 thru 10)

Opposing views online = 0

(Differing viewpoints lead to learning)

Traffic jams = 0

(I enjoy watching people interact in traffic jams)

Rap music = 0

(My music collection is far to diverse for me to criticize any particular genre)

Any music played loud enough that listening is no longer a choice = 5

(Why does the goober next to me feel the need to play his music loud enough to shatter glass? He's 3' away from the speakers!)

General displays of rude behavior = 5

(I'm an introvert. Loud, arrogant people repel me)

Rosie O'Donnell's continued existence = 10 :laughing:

(No explanation necessary)

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Indeed. Not every cache has to be accepted by everyone with open arms. But if you don't like the gift, there's someone else that will, and there's no reason to try to keep them from enjoying it.

 

Go find the gifts that you enjoy, and embrace those.

 

But, based on my earlier post, I have difficulties finding those particular caches that I would enjoy.

Khidir beneath Momouteh.

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Indeed. Not every cache has to be accepted by everyone with open arms. But if you don't like the gift, there's someone else that will, and there's no reason to try to keep them from enjoying it.

 

Go find the gifts that you enjoy, and embrace those.

 

But, based on my earlier post, I have difficulties finding those particular caches that I would enjoy.

Khidir beneath Momouteh.

 

While an obscure method of doing so, I consider this a personal attack (or "Uzani, his army with fists closed" if you need it spelled out). Especially since the Wikipedia reference translates this as: "cluelessness, possibly unwillingness to understand"

 

Is that TRULY what you are saying to me?

Edited by Markwell

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