Numbers Vs Ethics

[+Totem Clan]

Why are we hearing so much static over ‘numbers’ and ‘ethics or lack thereof’ within caching today? What is at root of the problem? Are lazy cachers putting out too many lame caches thereby causing cache bloat? Are cacher padding there numbers just because of their egos?

 

All these questions and more are bouncing around the forums like crazy. What has brought us to this point in the sport of caching? Please don’t just say Micro Spew™ and leave it at that. Explain what you think is the cause of all the dissension. Is it because cachers don’t like the rule, or guidelines, whichever you prefer?

 

Also how do we fix it? Or is it not broken? For the betterment of the sport, what are we, no what are you, going to do?

[+BadAndy]

It ain't broke. Everyone plays their own game in their own way. It's no different from any other sport or hobby. Every sport also has it's purist crowd and it's unsavory characters.

 

Many flyfishermen look down on bait fishermen, some people fish with dynamite.

 

Many golfers scoff at mulligans, I have an unlimited supply of them.

 

Most people fall somewhere in the middle.

[+BlueDeuce]

Today? I've been here three years, I didn't notice any difference. Same stuff, different day.

[+carleenp]

Over the years I have watched the same topics come up and be hot for awhile, just to be replaced by a different repeated topic. It seems to be a cycle. Some topic examples: numbers angst, micro angst, rules angst, reviewer angst, moderator angst, flaming geocides......

 

Anyway it had been awhile since there was some real heavy numbers and micro angst. So it was overdue. Come to think of it, there hasn't been a good rash of flaming geocides for awhile either. Maybe that is next?

Edited June 2, 2006 by carleenp

[+Totem Clan]

So what we're hearing is just so many dogs barking?

[+BlueDeuce]

mmmmmmm flaming geocides.

 

My favorite.

[+smilingsteeles]

It seems to me that when someone says "now it's not about the numbers, BUT blah blah blah"...... It really is about the numbers, for them.

[+Totem Clan]

It seems to me that when someone says "now it's not about the numbers, BUT blah blah blah"...... It really is about the numbers, for them.

 

So it's an ego issue?

[+carleenp]

So what we're hearing is just so many dogs barking?

 

Sort of. But the topics come up repeatedly because they are things that some people feel strongly about and/or there is some controversy over etc. Sometimes the same old stuff gets repeated. Other times some new thoughts or twist on things come out.

[+Totem Clan]

So what we're hearing is just so many dogs barking?

 

Sort of. But the topics come up repeatedly because they are things that some people feel strongly about and/or there is some controversy over etc. Sometimes the same old stuff gets repeated. Other times some new thoughts or twist on things come out.

 

So cachers will be cachers. Is that what your saying?

[+carleenp]

No, more like forum posters will be forum posters.....

[+vree]

So what we're hearing is just so many dogs barking?

well, that could be it. i always feel so much better about caching when i don't visit the forums.

 

however, i feel like the integrity of some uh... methods involved with the game today seem questionable. i'm pretty far removed from the situation down in texas, so it doesn't affect me *directly* yet. i haven't seen a pocket cache here in michigan. i am not aware of people logging temp caches at events here (not to say it doesn't happen, i just hadn't heard of it locally). i appreciate reading the differing points of view here because it makes me evaluate my own caching ethics. i just wish that it had this effect on everyone.

[+Digi Man]

I don't know where to start...

 

Pocket caches... people are using them to pad numbers, others are using them as meet-n-greets...

- solution... create a "Met" stats on the stats page...

 

Temp caches... again the padding numbers thing... don't know if I have an opinion on this one... it "pads" numbers, but in most instances it's a legit cache... container+logbook+coords=geocache (I quote Criminal)

- solution... don't know since I don't really have a problem with this one...

 

Taking a cache to an event and letting people log it... again the padding the numbers thing..."moving caches" are against the rules...

- solution... temp. disable a "unique" cache and take it to an event to "show", but don't let people log it as a "Find" log it as something else. if you (cache owner) see's it logged as "Found" remove log, then email person and tell them to log it as something else...

 

People logging their own caches... just retarded...

- solution... burn them at the stake... j/k... have a way to stop people from logging their own caches...

 

People logging their own caches w/ FTF.... again just retarded...

- solution... read above...

 

Record Run cachers signing the container and not the log... can't get onboard with this one... the whole idea is to find the cache & sign the log, then log the find...

- solution... don't count this year's record run...

 

I'm sure there's a slew of other things going on, but this is my jist so far...

 

EDIT: Oh and I forgot cookie cutter logs...

- solution... again you as the cache owner has the right to remove a log. Say on your page that cut & paste logs will be deleted...

 

Digi

Edited June 2, 2006 by Digi Man

[+briansnat]

Over the years I have watched the same topics come up and be hot for awhile, just to be replaced by a different repeated topic. It seems to be a cycle. Some topic examples: numbers angst, micro angst, rules angst, reviewer angst, moderator angst, flaming geocides......

 

Anyway it had been awhile since there was some real heavy numbers and micro angst. So it was overdue. Come to think of it, there hasn't been a good rash of flaming geocides for awhile either. Maybe that is next?

 

I agree with Carleen. This stuff is cyclical. Usually there is something to set it off. This week GW4 set off the ethics debate. In 2 months some reviewer's action will set off an anti reviewer tirade. In 4 months some natural disaster will set off widespread condemnation of Geocaching.com for not allowing a charity cache. In 6 months there will be anger over a change in the guidelines, or the removal of or change to a website feature.

In 8 months there will be anger over anger in the forums....

[+Totem Clan]

So what we're hearing is just so many dogs barking?

well, that could be it. i always feel so much better about caching when i don't visit the forums.

 

however, i feel like the integrity of some uh... methods involved with the game today seem questionable. i'm pretty far removed from the situation down in texas, so it doesn't affect me *directly* yet. i haven't seen a pocket cache here in michigan. i am not aware of people logging temp caches at events here (not to say it doesn't happen, i just hadn't heard of it locally). i appreciate reading the differing points of view here because it makes me evaluate my own caching ethics. i just wish that it had this effect on everyone.

 

So is there a way we have an effect on the ethics of others?

[+Totem Clan]

I don't know where to start...

 

Pocket caches... people are using them to pad numbers, others are using them as meet-n-greets...

- solution... create a "Met" stats on the stats page...

 

Temp caches... again the padding numbers thing... don't know if I have an opinion on this one... it "pads" numbers, but in most instances it's a legit cache... container+logbook+coords=geocache (I quote Criminal)

- solution... don't know since I don't really have a problem with this one...

 

Taking a cache to an event and letting people log it... again the padding the numbers thing..."moving caches" are against the rules...

- solution... temp. disable a "unique" cache and take it to an event to "show", but don't let people log it as a "Find" log it as something else. if you (cache owner) see's it logged as "Found" remove log, then email person and tell them to log it as something else...

 

People logging their own caches... just retarded...

- solution... burn them at the stake... j/k... have a way to stop people from logging their own caches...

 

People logging their own caches w/ FTF.... again just retarded...

- solution... read above...

 

Record Run cachers signing the container and not the log... can't get onboard with this one... the whole idea is to sign the log...

- solution... don't count this year's record run...

 

I'm sure there's a slew of other things going on, but this is my jist so far...

 

I agree but what if anything can we do about it?

[+sbell111]

Temp caches... again the padding numbers thing... don't know if I have an opinion on this one... it "pads" numbers, but in most instances it's a legit cache... container+logbook+coords=geocache (I quote Criminal)

- solution... don't know since I don't really have a problem with this one...

There is but one flaw to this logic. The cache doesn't meet GC.com's guidelines and isn't listed on GC.com. Therefore, the find for the cache shouldn't be logged on GC.com. If this wasn't the case, everyone would just log their terracaches on GC.com so their stats would be 'right'.

[+StarBrand]

Speaking for myself anyway - I think some of the forum regulars have just recently become aware of some - well shall we say; eye opening - new forms of logging and caching. It sparked renewed discussion on these age old topics. Things are a bit different and we are discussing that. Might lead to some new guidelines, might not.

 

But things are a changing - that is for sure. At least for some.....

[+Totem Clan]

Over the years I have watched the same topics come up and be hot for awhile, just to be replaced by a different repeated topic. It seems to be a cycle. Some topic examples: numbers angst, micro angst, rules angst, reviewer angst, moderator angst, flaming geocides......

 

Anyway it had been awhile since there was some real heavy numbers and micro angst. So it was overdue. Come to think of it, there hasn't been a good rash of flaming geocides for awhile either. Maybe that is next?

 

I agree with Carleen. This stuff is cyclical. Usually there is something to set it off. This week GW4 set off the ethics debate. In 2 months some reviewer's action will set off an anti reviewer tirade. In 4 months some natural disaster will set off widespread condemnation of Geocaching.com for not allowing a charity cache. In 6 months there will be anger over a change in the guidelines, or the removal of or change to a website feature.

In 8 months there will be anger over anger in the forums....

 

So we're all doom to go round and round the merry-go-round of angst?

[+vree]

So is there a way we have an effect on the ethics of others?

i don't think so. i think that's up to each and every cacher to do for themselves. can't legislate good ethics. heck, we can't even agree on them!

 

ETA:

So we're all doom to go round and round the merry-go-round of angst?

probably. and brian's schedule looks pretty acurate too.

Edited June 2, 2006 by vree

[+Adventure.AS]

I don't know where to start...

 

...

 

Temp caches... again the padding numbers thing... don't know if I have an opinion on this one... it "pads" numbers, but in most instances it's a legit cache... container+logbook+coords=geocache (I quote Criminal)

- solution... don't know since I don't really have a problem with this one...

 

...

 

Digi

 

Shouldn't it be container+logbook+coords+published on gc.com=geocache

[+Digi Man]

Temp caches... again the padding numbers thing... don't know if I have an opinion on this one... it "pads" numbers, but in most instances it's a legit cache... container+logbook+coords=geocache (I quote Criminal)

- solution... don't know since I don't really have a problem with this one...

There is but one flaw to this logic. The cache doesn't meet GC.com's guidelines and isn't listed on GC.com. Therefore, the find for the cache shouldn't be logged on GC.com. If this wasn't the case, everyone would just log their terracaches on GC.com so their stats would be 'right'.

 

so if you can't log these they why is there so much fuss about them...

 

the temp caches that i seen had gc#'s... which means they were approved...

[+Snoogans]

Over the years I have watched the same topics come up and be hot for awhile, just to be replaced by a different repeated topic. It seems to be a cycle. Some topic examples: numbers angst, micro angst, rules angst, reviewer angst, moderator angst, flaming geocides......

 

Anyway it had been awhile since there was some real heavy numbers and micro angst. So it was overdue. Come to think of it, there hasn't been a good rash of flaming geocides for awhile either. Maybe that is next?

 

I agree with Carleen. This stuff is cyclical. Usually there is something to set it off. This week GW4 set off the ethics debate. In 2 months some reviewer's action will set off an anti reviewer tirade. In 4 months some natural disaster will set off widespread condemnation of Geocaching.com for not allowing a charity cache. In 6 months there will be anger over a change in the guidelines, or the removal of or change to a website feature.

In 8 months there will be anger over anger in the forums....

 

I agree with both of you to a point, but this little debate has now caused reactionary archival of caches from on high!

 

LAME LAME LAME-O LAME AS CAN BE!

Edited June 2, 2006 by Snoogans

[+Digi Man]

I don't know where to start...

 

...

 

Temp caches... again the padding numbers thing... don't know if I have an opinion on this one... it "pads" numbers, but in most instances it's a legit cache... container+logbook+coords=geocache (I quote Criminal)

- solution... don't know since I don't really have a problem with this one...

 

...

 

Digi

 

Shouldn't it be container+logbook+coords+published on gc.com=geocache

 

how do you log something on gc.com that doesn't have a gc number? if you log something that hasn't been published, on another cache... then why isn't the owner of that cache removing those logs... and why would you log something on one cache page that has nothing to do with that cache?

Edited June 2, 2006 by Digi Man

[+pater47]

I've been at this 4 1/2 years and still have less than 1000 finds, so I guess I can say I'm not among the numbers hungry. When I started there were less than 20 caches in the entire state. In fact I hold the rather dubious "honor" of placing the first micro in the state (which by the way is still active!). In the early days, I feel that cachers were pretty much a fringe element of society. Caches for the most part were full sized tupperware or ammo boxes found behind the tree at the end of a hike through the woods. I like to tell the newbies that back in old day, we only had one satellite - and we had to carry it with us and take turns throwing it up in the air to get a reading.

 

Over time geocaching has absolutely exploded in popularity, more so than anyone, even Groundspeak, could have imagined. Cache quality has expanded - in both directions - vastly from a few years ago. It has become a mainstream activity.

 

The upside is more people get to participate in an activity at the pace and energy level they desire. Wanna do 300 caches in a day? Fine! Go for it! Wanna make a day (or two) going after a 5/5 cache? Fine! Go for it!

 

The downside is the competition for most icons (I still maintain that personalized geocoins and icons for them were the worst mistake Groundpseak has made thus far), the most first-to-finds, and the most finds - even it if means multiple logging or "finding" a cache that isn't there or before it was even published has taken away (in my opinon) much of the original ideology that geocaching was originally based on.

 

The numbers shouldn't matter. But to a lot of people, they simply do. Over the years, I feel that Groundspeak has been very loosely regulated. People could play pretty much the way they want to. However, with so many people "pushing the envelope" on what they do, more and more restrictions and evolving have had to take place. I expect one of the next things to happen will be the inability to log more than one find on a single waypoint.

 

Keep in mind, in the grand scheme of things, geocaching is still a very new activity. We're going to experience a lot more growing pains. As more people and more methods and more ideas evolve, geocaching will have to, as it always has, evolve with it (i.e. "discovering" a geocoin Waymarking, etc.).

 

Enjoy the activity of geocaching. Have fun. Come up with new ways to participate. For the most part, we are still self-governed. However, keep in mind that self-government without self-control leads to problems and abuses. And when Groundspeak has to step in and put some control or change in place to rectify a situation, just put on your big boy britches and deal with it.

 

I spend considerably less time on this forum and the Mississippi forum because both, to my feeling, focus less on geocaching and mostly on how "That's not fair!".

 

I'm Pater47 and these are my perceptions.

 

ever notice how people are always willing to give you their two cents worth but only offer a penny for your thoughts?

[+vree]

how do you log something on gc.com that doesn't have a gc number?

by logging some cache that does have gc number multiple times.

[+StarBrand]

...

the temp caches that i seen had gc#'s... which means they were approved...

Not likely - temp caches have been against the guidelines for some time now. They might have been GC#'s from permanent caches or archived ones. Not temporary events ones.

[+Totem Clan]

Based on the last few post, it looks like egos slamin' head long into ethics is the problem.

[+Team Neos]

It seems to me that when someone says "now it's not about the numbers, BUT blah blah blah"...... It really is about the numbers, for them.

So it's an ego issue?

Maybe it is an ego issue. Now that you mention it, most of the truely vicious arguing is based on "Well, my x are better than your x because" statements. (Just replace the x with your choice of terms such as: ideas, caches, morales, ethics, stats, etc).

 

But is is all cyclic. Same old thing, different day. Yes, people do have strong feelings about some issues, but the truth is, the next day or the next week there will be another group arguing the exact opposite side of the same issue.

 

Then there are those who just like to stir up some controversy, any controversy....

 

And maybe, just maybe, some folks are desperately lonely they are just trying to make sure that someone will still hear them out. There is one fellow that posts now and then that seems so friendless that I often think that he enjoys even the negative responses-- just so he gets some interaction with people.

[+Digi Man]

how do you log something on gc.com that doesn't have a gc number?

by logging some cache that does have gc number multiple times.

 

then that's wrong and the log should be deleted by that cache owner...

[+Totem Clan]

how do you log something on gc.com that doesn't have a gc number?

by logging some cache that does have gc number multiple times.

 

then that's wrong and the log should be deleted by that cache owner...

 

This is some of what I'm talking about. Is this two egos butting heads, or just an ethics issue?

Edited June 2, 2006 by Totem Clan

[Ferreter5]

"If cachers are cachers

then why should it be

that you and I

should get along so aweful-ly?"

 

I do my best to be my best. I try to learn and improve as I go. I hope that I serve as a good ambassador for the hobby of geocaching. I can only affect others by being a good example, interacting with them, and hoping we can both learn something from each other.

[+Digi Man]

...

the temp caches that i seen had gc#'s... which means they were approved...

Not likely - temp caches have been against the guidelines for some time now. They might have been GC#'s from permanent caches or archived ones. Not temporary events ones.

 

some of the temp caches on the board at gw4 had gc numbers... some did not... those i would expect to be just a paper log, for "something to do" but no virtual recognition...

 

like the couple that i did at gw4... the one in the board in front of the marquee (sp) was supposed to be published later... haven't seen it yet, so i have not logged it virtually... but i would not log it on another cache page...

 

there was a temp cache that dragonsdown had... said it was not published yet, so i'm waiting for it to be published (prolly not gonna happen now, so oh well), but I didn't log it on another page...

[+Totem Clan]

"If cachers are cachers

then why should it be

that you and I

should get along so aweful-ly?"

 

I do my best to be my best. I try to learn and improve as I go. I hope that I serve as a good ambassador for the hobby of geocaching. I can only affect others by being a good example, interacting with them, and hoping we can both learn something from each other.

 

There is some postive here after all.

 

So why not take this approach?

[+Digi Man]

how do you log something on gc.com that doesn't have a gc number?

by logging some cache that does have gc number multiple times.

 

then that's wrong and the log should be deleted by that cache owner...

 

This is some of what I'm talking about. Is this two egos butting heads, or just an ethics issue?

 

we're not butting heads... we agree...

[+AuntieWeasel]

Enjoy the activity of geocaching. Have fun. Come up with new ways to participate. For the most part, we are still self-governed. However, keep in mind that self-government without self-control leads to problems and abuses. And when Groundspeak has to step in and put some control or change in place to rectify a situation, just put on your big boy britches and deal with it.

That was...beautiful, man. If only I could cross-stitch.

[+smilingsteeles]

Enjoy the activity of geocaching. Have fun. Come up with new ways to participate. For the most part, we are still self-governed. However, keep in mind that self-government without self-control leads to problems and abuses. And when Groundspeak has to step in and put some control or change in place to rectify a situation, just put on your big boy britches and deal with it.

That was...beautiful, man. If only I could cross-stitch.

lol

[+Totem Clan]

Enjoy the activity of geocaching. Have fun. Come up with new ways to participate. For the most part, we are still self-governed. However, keep in mind that self-government without self-control leads to problems and abuses. And when Groundspeak has to step in and put some control or change in place to rectify a situation, just put on your big boy britches and deal with it.

That was...beautiful, man. If only I could cross-stitch.

 

So some of us need to grow up? Learn to play nice? Learn to stay in the lines?

 

So it's ethics?

[+AuntieWeasel]

Enjoy the activity of geocaching. Have fun. Come up with new ways to participate. For the most part, we are still self-governed. However, keep in mind that self-government without self-control leads to problems and abuses. And when Groundspeak has to step in and put some control or change in place to rectify a situation, just put on your big boy britches and deal with it.

That was...beautiful, man. If only I could cross-stitch.

So some of us need to grow up? Learn to play nice? Learn to stay in the lines?

 

So it's ethics?

I haven't the faintest idea what you're asking.

[+leather-man]

Most of the complaints I have read on this board have been about the numbers.

People questioning someone else's numbers. How did they get that many, they broke the "rules" read guidelines, and on and on.

I read a bit of it but it wont effect the way I hunt or log one bit. I'm not going to say I'm not into it for the numbers but not in the same way as a bunch of others.

My first year goal is simple, 100 finds.

That number means I will have 2 nice, long hikes on average each week. I don't run from parking lot to parking lot finding micros as that's not why I do this. I have found some of the lamp post caches just to see what they were about.

 

If and when I fall behind in finds because of work, I set up a 6 or 7 cache run that includes at least a couple of nice hikes.

 

I don't care to argue with anyone about anything and never have. If you want HUGE numbers for what ever reason, fine with me. If you have been a member for 3 years or so and have 10 finds, that's OK too.

It's none of my business what you do while caching. If you cheat, your only cheating yourself.

 

Oh Ya, did I mention, My dogs bigger than your dog?

[+pater47]

 

 

So some of us need to grow up? Learn to play nice? Learn to stay in the lines?

 

So it's ethics?

 

Grow up? Maybe some of us

Play nice? Absolutely!

Stay in the lines? Only when completely necessary!

ehtics? Nah, I think it's more "creative interpretation"

[+Digi Man]

logging a find on one cache that has nothing to do with that cache = ethical issue that has somewhat of a solution...

 

logging a find on a cache is sitting on a table at gw4, or in someone's ear at gw4, or underneath a chair at gw4... = a head butting issue, that has a permanent solution...

 

logging a cache that has no gc #... on another cache = priceless...

 

 

insert comments here...

[+BlueDeuce]

Most of the complaints I have read on this board have been about the numbers.

People questioning someone else's numbers. How did they get that many, they broke the "rules" read guidelines, and on and on.

I read a bit of it but it wont effect the way I hunt or log one bit. I'm not going to say I'm not into it for the numbers but not in the same way as a bunch of others.

My first year goal is simple, 100 finds.

That number means I will have 2 nice, long hikes on average each week. I don't run from parking lot to parking lot finding micros as that's not why I do this. I have found some of the lamp post caches just to see what they were about.

 

If and when I fall behind in finds because of work, I set up a 6 or 7 cache run that includes at least a couple of nice hikes.

 

I don't care to argue with anyone about anything and never have. If you want HUGE numbers for what ever reason, fine with me. If you have been a member for 3 years or so and have 10 finds, that's OK too.

It's none of my business what you do while caching. If you cheat, your only cheating yourself.

 

Oh Ya, did I mention, My dogs bigger than your dog?

 

"Most of the complaints I have read on this board have been about the numbers."

 

I've never complained about someone's numbers. I do have an issue with logging practices, but not about numbers.

 

but we are just continuing the same story in just another thread.

[+Totem Clan]

Enjoy the activity of geocaching. Have fun. Come up with new ways to participate. For the most part, we are still self-governed. However, keep in mind that self-government without self-control leads to problems and abuses. And when Groundspeak has to step in and put some control or change in place to rectify a situation, just put on your big boy britches and deal with it.

That was...beautiful, man. If only I could cross-stitch.

So some of us need to grow up? Learn to play nice? Learn to stay in the lines?

 

So it's ethics?

I haven't the faintest idea what you're asking.

 

If we need Groundspeak to come in and govern us like children, is that because we can't of won't play by the rules?

 

Do we, or least some of us, need to grow up?

 

Do we, as a group have an ethics problem?

[+BlueDeuce]

 

If we need Groundspeak to come in and govern us like children, is that because we can't of won't play by the rules?

 

Do we, or least some of us, need to grow up?

 

Do we, as a group have an ethics problem?

 

What do you think, do we?

 

and how does that make you feel?

Edited June 2, 2006 by BlueDeuce

[+Totem Clan]

Most of the complaints I have read on this board have been about the numbers.

People questioning someone else's numbers. How did they get that many, they broke the "rules" read guidelines, and on and on.

I read a bit of it but it wont effect the way I hunt or log one bit. I'm not going to say I'm not into it for the numbers but not in the same way as a bunch of others.

My first year goal is simple, 100 finds.

That number means I will have 2 nice, long hikes on average each week. I don't run from parking lot to parking lot finding micros as that's not why I do this. I have found some of the lamp post caches just to see what they were about.

 

If and when I fall behind in finds because of work, I set up a 6 or 7 cache run that includes at least a couple of nice hikes.

 

I don't care to argue with anyone about anything and never have. If you want HUGE numbers for what ever reason, fine with me. If you have been a member for 3 years or so and have 10 finds, that's OK too.

It's none of my business what you do while caching. If you cheat, your only cheating yourself.

 

Oh Ya, did I mention, My dogs bigger than your dog?

 

"Most of the complaints I have read on this board have been about the numbers."

 

I've never complained about someone's numbers. I do have an issue with logging practices, but not about numbers.

 

but we are just continuing the same story in just another thread.

 

So now we're back to ego. I'm getting dizy.

 

Is there a fix here, or do we just deal with it?

[+BlueDeuce]

The answer is to discuss, debate, analyze. Pretty much what we usually do.

 

Sooo, if you need to sit down for a while, I understand.

 

 

sorry: they/the

Edited June 2, 2006 by BlueDeuce

[+Totem Clan]

 

If we need Groundspeak to come in and govern us like children, is that because we can't of won't play by the rules?

 

Do we, or least some of us, need to grow up?

 

Do we, as a group have an ethics problem?

 

What do you think, do we?

 

and how does that make you feel?

 

As a group, no. Yet it seems that there is a problem out there.

 

How do we as a group keep it from becoming a problem that requires Groundspeak step in?

[+BlueDeuce]

How do we as a group keep it from becoming a problem that requires Groundspeak step in?

 

42

[+AuntieWeasel]

Enjoy the activity of geocaching. Have fun. Come up with new ways to participate. For the most part, we are still self-governed. However, keep in mind that self-government without self-control leads to problems and abuses. And when Groundspeak has to step in and put some control or change in place to rectify a situation, just put on your big boy britches and deal with it.

That was...beautiful, man. If only I could cross-stitch.

So some of us need to grow up? Learn to play nice? Learn to stay in the lines?

 

So it's ethics?

I haven't the faintest idea what you're asking.

 

If we need Groundspeak to come in and govern us like children, is that because we can't of won't play by the rules?

 

Do we, or least some of us, need to grow up?

 

Do we, as a group have an ethics problem?

I thought pater47 answered the questions beautifully in the paragraph I quoted, which is rather why I quoted it. And was puzzled that you repeated the question. Broken down into even smaller, more bite-sized chunks, then: we're a big group playing a game together. It's a simple game with mostly imaginary stakes, so we don't really need a lot of explicit rules. Even so, sometimes people behave in ways that the overwhelming majority of the other players find unacceptable. Often, the resulting brouhaha among players is enough to make the undesirable behavior stop (I doubt anyone will try a record run under those rules again, for example). Sometimes, the behavior can't be stopped (disgruntled player takes a dump in a cache, for example). Sometimes, GC will step in and make a ruling from on high (or at least nibble on it individually, like disabling funkier caches or virtual TB's).

 

Beyond that, I truly don't understand what your question is. Do we have an ethics problem? I dunno...is that what you call an ethics problem?