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Who Watching Our Caches?


rjw661
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Why can't the owner of a cache be able to tell who's watchlist their cache is on. The area I'm in has a cache pirate and caches that have been stolen are stolen again with in a day or two of being replaced. Several of us who have had caches stolen belive that the person responsible has them on a watch list.

Making them Members only caches hasn't helped either since a new one that was put out as a member only lasted 4 days. If we could see who was watching the caches we could get a good idea of who's doing this.

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Why can't the owner of a cache be able to tell who's watchlist their cache is on. The area I'm in has a cache pirate and caches that have been stolen are stolen again with in a day or two of being replaced. Several of us who have had caches stolen belive that the person responsible has them on a watch list.

Making them Members only caches hasn't helped either since a new one that was put out as a member only lasted 4 days. If we could see who was watching the caches we could get a good idea of who's doing this.

If you could see the list of watchers, all you'd probably have is a list of innocent people under an unfair cloud of suspicion. People watch caches for lots of reasons, including (but certainly not limited to):

  • they've already found the cache and they liked it so much that they want to read the logs when other people find it, or they want to see if/when anybody picks up the trade item that they left behind.
  • they own a TB that is in your cache and they're going to watch the cache until someone picks up their TB or until someone says "hey, there's no TB in here."
  • they're into TB trading, and they live close by, and they put all nearby caches on their watchlists in case any TBs are dropped in them.
  • they tried to find your cache and they couldn't, so they're hoping to get some hints or pointers from subsequent finders.
  • they have found your cache, and are watching it until it has been found agin, just for the peace of mind knowing that they did not inadvertantly give away the cache location.
  • they haven't looked for it yet, but have it on a watchlist as a reminder to themselves that they want to find it one of these days.
  • it's an interesting cache that generates interesting logs and they just like to read them.

More importantly, caches can be "watched" via bookmark lists and pocket queries. These types of "watchers" wouldn't show up on your list at all. If your cache thief is indeed a premium member as you suspect, these two options would be available to them, so having a list of watchers would do you no good at all.

Edited by the hermit crabs
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We could narrow the field down quite a bit. First of all this guy has been active only since about September and we don't believe he has actually logged any caches. At least he hasn't logged any of the missing caches.

As for the local reviewer, his advice was to disable the caches for awhile and hope the guy goes away. Well it has been since September and at least 50 caches are missing. Those aren't even counting the ones he's taken twice.

I put these caches out to bring people to the area. and since virtuals are almost impossible to get approved it defeats my whole purpose of geocaching.

Edited by rjw661
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my suggestion whould be to but a javascript counter in your page so you can see who is visiting the page. Geocaching supports HTML (which is surpising in some ways) and so you should be able to do that.....please someone correct me if i am wrong about the site supporting such and app

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Why can't the owner of a cache be able to tell who's watchlist their cache is on. The area I'm in has a cache pirate and caches that have been stolen are stolen again with in a day or two of being replaced. Several of us who have had caches stolen belive that the person responsible has them on a watch list.

Making them Members only caches hasn't helped either since a new one that was put out as a member only lasted 4 days. If we could see who was watching the caches we could get a good idea of who's doing this.

This is exactly why watchlists should remain private. Just because someone put a cache on his watchlist, he suddenly become a suspect if something happens to it?

 

What next? Extraordinary rendition for people who don't close a Lock 'n Lock properly?

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Why can't the owner of a cache be able to tell who's watchlist their cache is on. The area I'm in has a cache pirate and caches that have been stolen are stolen again with in a day or two of being replaced. Several of us who have had caches stolen belive that the person responsible has them on a watch list.

Making them Members only caches hasn't helped either since a new one that was put out as a member only lasted 4 days. If we could see who was watching the caches we could get a good idea of who's doing this.

I believe, though, that the "Members Only" caches have an advantage that the regular ones don't - an audit log. You can check that log to see who has visited the page, how often, and when.

That's probably one reason why it was recommended to you to make the caches in the area Members Only. That audit log does make you able to see who's checked on it.

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Why can't the owner of a cache be able to tell who's watchlist their cache is on. The area I'm in has a cache pirate and caches that have been stolen are stolen again with in a day or two of being replaced. Several of us who have had caches stolen belive that the person responsible has them on a watch list.

Making them Members only caches hasn't helped either since a new one that was put out as a member only lasted 4 days. If we could see who was watching the caches we could get a good idea of who's doing this.

If you could see the list of watchers, all you'd probably have is a list of innocent people under an unfair cloud of suspicion. People watch caches for lots of reasons, including (but certainly not limited to):

  • they've already found the cache and they liked it so much that they want to read the logs when other people find it, or they want to see if/when anybody picks up the trade item that they left behind.
  • they own a TB that is in your cache and they're going to watch the cache until someone picks up their TB or until someone says "hey, there's no TB in here."
  • they're into TB trading, and they live close by, and they put all nearby caches on their watchlists in case any TBs are dropped in them.
  • they tried to find your cache and they couldn't, so they're hoping to get some hints or pointers from subsequent finders.
  • they have found your cache, and are watching it until it has been found agin, just for the peace of mind knowing that they did not inadvertantly give away the cache location.
  • they haven't looked for it yet, but have it on a watchlist as a reminder to themselves that they want to find it one of these days.
  • it's an interesting cache that generates interesting logs and they just like to read them.

More importantly, caches can be "watched" via bookmark lists and pocket queries. These types of "watchers" wouldn't show up on your list at all. If your cache thief is indeed a premium member as you suspect, these two options would be available to them, so having a list of watchers would do you no good at all.

 

Yes, for us, the primary reasons we watchlist a cache are the first and the last on the list. I can see all kinds of fun reasons why it might be nice to know who has my caches watchlisted, but one of them is NOT because it may be a good way to catch a pirate.

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Why can't the owner of a cache be able to tell who's watchlist their cache is on. The area I'm in has a cache pirate and caches that have been stolen are stolen again with in a day or two of being replaced. Several of us who have had caches stolen belive that the person responsible has them on a watch list.

Making them Members only caches hasn't helped either since a new one that was put out as a member only lasted 4 days. If we could see who was watching the caches we could get a good idea of who's doing this.

I believe, though, that the "Members Only" caches have an advantage that the regular ones don't - an audit log. You can check that log to see who has visited the page, how often, and when.

That's probably one reason why it was recommended to you to make the caches in the area Members Only. That audit log does make you able to see who's checked on it.

 

Yes, yes, yes! All true!

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Lets assume 'best case scenario' here. You figure out the name of the guy who is doing this. Even in that case there is next to nothing you can do about it. (maybe tell his mommy and daddy on him, but if he's doing this they probably don't have any control of him anyways).

 

Another thing you can do is stick an image on your cache page hosted on a remote server where you have access to the audit logs.

That will give you the IP addresses of all the people who looked at your cache, then you can cross reference that with the members only audit logs, and eliminate all those who you know it isn't. Then you should be able to get a list of suspect IP addresses. What good that does you, I'm not sure.

 

Maybe if you e-mailed all the local account holders, and got them to e-mail you back again, you could check their e-mail headers and figure out who's who that way.

 

Another option is to make some hard puzzles for him to solve. Make him work to muggle your caches.

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Lets assume 'best case scenario' here. You figure out the name of the guy who is doing this. Even in that case there is next to nothing you can do about it. (maybe tell his mommy and daddy on him, but if he's doing this they probably don't have any control of him anyways).

 

Another thing you can do is stick an image on your cache page hosted on a remote server where you have access to the audit logs.

That will give you the IP addresses of all the people who looked at your cache, then you can cross reference that with the members only audit logs, and eliminate all those who you know it isn't. Then you should be able to get a list of suspect IP addresses. What good that does you, I'm not sure.

 

Maybe if you e-mailed all the local account holders, and got them to e-mail you back again, you could check their e-mail headers and figure out who's who that way.

 

Another option is to make some hard puzzles for him to solve. Make him work to muggle your caches.

 

Before doing this you would need to read the Terms of Use. There is a little thing in there about collecting information about people on the site. It's not something that you are allowed to do.

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Why can't the owner of a cache be able to tell who's watchlist their cache is on. The area I'm in has a cache pirate and caches that have been stolen are stolen again with in a day or two of being replaced. Several of us who have had caches stolen belive that the person responsible has them on a watch list.

Making them Members only caches hasn't helped either since a new one that was put out as a member only lasted 4 days. If we could see who was watching the caches we could get a good idea of who's doing this.

I believe, though, that the "Members Only" caches have an advantage that the regular ones don't - an audit log. You can check that log to see who has visited the page, how often, and when.

That's probably one reason why it was recommended to you to make the caches in the area Members Only. That audit log does make you able to see who's checked on it.

1. Do premium members *never* engage in cache theft? $3.00 isn't a huge barrier to entry.

2. A cache maggot obsessed enough to steal caches within days of placement or replacement is also likely to be smart enough to cover their tracks well. With pocket queries, one *never* needs to look at the cache page. Read the page offline in GSAK or other software, and your maggot's name never hits the audit log. Meanwhile, a witch hunt might falsely accuse someone whose name *was* on the audit log.

 

Some of the posts above demonstrate why disclosing watchlists is a bad idea. Discussing the cache maggot openly is also a bad idea. It gives the cache maggot the attention he craves.

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I am from the same area that RJW is from we are estimating that there is about 100 to 150 caches missing in our county. Basically there is no geocaching, in our area. It would be nice if we could see who was watching our caches, if we could narrow the list down maybe Groundspeak could delete the membership of the person.

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I am from the same area that RJW is from we are estimating that there is about 100 to 150 caches missing in our county. Basically there is no geocaching, in our area. It would be nice if we could see who was watching our caches, if we could narrow the list down maybe Groundspeak could delete the membership of the person.

Except, of course, that you have zero proof that there's any correlation between watching a cache, and being a cache thief.

 

Why aren't you asking for a list of everyone who gets these caches in a PQ? Or has them on a Bookmark list?

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I am from the same area that RJW is from we are estimating that there is about 100 to 150 caches missing in our county. Basically there is no geocaching, in our area. It would be nice if we could see who was watching our caches, if we could narrow the list down maybe Groundspeak could delete the membership of the person.

Except, of course, that you have zero proof that there's any correlation between watching a cache, and being a cache thief.

 

Why aren't you asking for a list of everyone who gets these caches in a PQ? Or has them on a Bookmark list?

And to make matters worse, what if there are multiple sock puppets?

 

This sounds more like a job for Captain Clorox or someone. IP addresses and all that.

Edited by New England n00b
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I

I am from the same area that RJW is from we are estimating that there is about 100 to 150 caches missing in our county. Basically there is no geocaching, in our area. It would be nice if we could see who was watching our caches, if we could narrow the list down maybe Groundspeak could delete the membership of the person.

Except, of course, that you have zero proof that there's any correlation between watching a cache, and being a cache thief.

 

Why aren't you asking for a list of everyone who gets these caches in a PQ? Or has them on a Bookmark list?

And to make matters worse, what if there are multiple sock puppets?

 

This sounds more like a job for Captain Clorox or someone. IP addresses and all that.

 

 

I feel we should know who is watching our caches. I have 3 people watching one of my caches. I have no clue who they are or why are they watching mine. If I had the problem others are having with their caches, I would sit and watch my cache from a distance. I am just that crazy enough!!

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I feel we should know who is watching our caches. I have 3 people watching one of my caches. I have no clue who they are or why are they watching mine. If I had the problem others are having with their caches, I would sit and watch my cache from a distance. I am just that crazy enough!!

So this is based on a "feeling"? Any actual reasons for this you'd like to put forward?

And why don't you "feel" that you should also know who has your caches bookmarked? Or included on a PQ?

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If all the caches in your area are going missing knowing who is on the watch list is not going to help. With instant e-mail notification and PQ's a cache thief has all the information they need without ever bookmarking or even visiting the cache page.

 

Now if there is a local cacher who just has a something against you, having an idea you might be on to them could persuade them to stop, but for someone who is truely outside the community there is not much you can do.

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Another thing you can do is stick an image on your cache page hosted on a remote server where you have access to the audit logs.

That will give you the IP addresses of all the people who looked at your cache, then you can cross reference that with the members only audit logs, and eliminate all those who you know it isn't. Then you should be able to get a list of suspect IP addresses. What good that does you, I'm not sure.

 

Before doing this you would need to read the Terms of Use. There is a little thing in there about collecting information about people on the site. It's not something that you are allowed to do.

 

Was looking through the terms of use (no time right now for an in depth reading). I couldn't see anything there that would apply (not saying it isn't there, just that I couldn't find it). Mostly stuff about not running spiders, and how you authorize Groundspeak to use your personally identifiable information.

 

Might be able to get it under

 

(a) Upload, post or otherwise transmit any content that is unlawful, harmful, threatening, abusive, harassing, tortious, defamatory, slanderous, vulgar, obscene, libelous, invasive of another's privacy, hateful, embarrassing, or racially, ethnically or otherwise objectionable to any other person or entity.

 

Although sounds like you could fit anything under that clause (hey I don't like the Cheers thread. In fact I find it quite objectionable... I move it be censored... just kidding).

 

And I'm not convinced that the uploading of the picture is actually what is invading their privacy, more the actual audit logs on the MoCs....

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I think it would be nice to have the option as the watcher to have my name visible (for friends caches and such). I do agree that it should be kept private, unless, I as that person want it to be known (the watcher, not the owner.

 

You do :mad:, its called a bookmark list. Call it "Caches I watch"

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I think it would be nice to have the option as the watcher to have my name visible (for friends caches and such). I do agree that it should be kept private, unless, I as that person want it to be known (the watcher, not the owner.

 

You do :mad:, its called a bookmark list. Call it "Caches I watch"

Great idea! I'll add it right after my "Caches I'm Planning To Steal" bookmark. :mad:

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I think it would be nice to have the option as the watcher to have my name visible (for friends caches and such). I do agree that it should be kept private, unless, I as that person want it to be known (the watcher, not the owner.

 

You do :mad:, its called a bookmark list. Call it "Caches I watch"

Great idea! I'll add it right after my "Caches I'm Planning To Steal" bookmark. :(

 

You don't need to. You're already the Prime Suspect :mad:

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I think it would be nice to have the option as the watcher to have my name visible (for friends caches and such). I do agree that it should be kept private, unless, I as that person want it to be known (the watcher, not the owner.

 

You do :huh:, its called a bookmark list. Call it "Caches I watch"

Great idea! I'll add it right after my "Caches I'm Planning To Steal" bookmark. :laughing:

 

You don't need to. You're already the Prime Suspect :blink:

 

Well If it was a small problem I would laugh to but we are estimating there isn't a cache left within 20 to 30 miles, they are now missing 30 miles north of here. Its frustrating I have lost several caches along with 8 TBS and 2 geocoins. The cost of everything missing is starting to add up

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Well If it was a small problem I would laugh to but we are estimating there isn't a cache left within 20 to 30 miles, they are now missing 30 miles north of here. Its frustrating I have lost several caches along with 8 TBS and 2 geocoins. The cost of everything missing is starting to add up

 

I'm sorry for the problems you are having there, but as others have pointed out, knowing who is watching your caches won't answer the question about who is stealing them.

 

I watch every cache I have ever found (that is not archived) because I enjoy reading the experience of others. And I've never stolen any of them. :laughing:

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Well If it was a small problem I would laugh to but we are estimating there isn't a cache left within 20 to 30 miles, they are now missing 30 miles north of here. Its frustrating I have lost several caches along with 8 TBS and 2 geocoins. The cost of everything missing is starting to add up
Posting about it on the forums is obviously not going to do any good. The scale of the problem suggests that the perpetrators are quite familiar with geocaching in general, geocaching.com, and they are likely to monitor the forums as well. Other than making you feel nice and warm inside and giving the impression that you "did something," kicking off a thread about it is only going to acknowledge the perpetrators' efforts, and give them useful input as everyone chimes in with "well, if I was going to do it, I would do X." Specifically, posting here is not going to stop the activity or identify anybody as the culprit.

 

Since the problem is so severe, my course of action would be to keep it as quiet as possible in public places, and try to deal with it locally, with the help of trusted cachers who know the respective locations. Set up honey pot caches, involve the reviewers and Groundspeak. They have the resources to actually recognize patterns connected with disappearing caches. Keep quiet publicly.

 

Maybe you'll identify who is behind this. There are lots of legitimate reasons why people oppose caching, but they should have the backbone to stand up for it. I wish you luck.

 

I think it would be nice to have the option as the watcher to have my name visible (for friends caches and such). I do agree that it should be kept private, unless, I as that person want it to be known (the watcher, not the owner.
Ah, peer pressure at its best. "I see there are 3 people watching my caches. Two of them have identified themselves. The third one must obviously be up to no good. Let's find him out and burn him!"

 

Please no.

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Well If it was a small problem I would laugh to but we are estimating there isn't a cache left within 20 to 30 miles, they are now missing 30 miles north of here. Its frustrating I have lost several caches along with 8 TBS and 2 geocoins. The cost of everything missing is starting to add up

Your level of frustration doesn't make the premise that watchers are plotting to steal caches any more valid.

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