Utility Easements

[+vree]

does anyone know where i might be able to find some clear information on utility easements? i thought i had a pretty clear understanding of them, but another cacher tells me that i don't.

 

my understanding:

-a utility right of way (e.g. power line ROW with hiking path underneath) is available for public use.

-utility uh... equipment (for lack of a better word. e.g. a phone company pedestal) on property that is less than 20 feet away from a posted "no trespassing" sign is not available for public use. for clarity, the location in question is about 15-20 feet off a road, which appears to be the only way to the cache (kind of a dead end road) and along the *entire* length of the road, there are light poles with "POSTED No Trespassing" signs on each pole.

 

would the "no trespassing" sign trump the utility easement idea? i just want to know for future reference and i've read some older threads about easements and right of ways, but i am wondering if anyone knows where some kind of definitive info may be located...

[+Renegade Knight]

Tough questions.

 

Utility easements on a specific piece of propety can be found at the county recorders office.

 

However by definition if they are an easement, then someone else owns the property and the utility is only there by the permission granted by the easment. The level of use permitted by the utility varies with the easement. For example my family has some land with an easement obtained by a power utility for their hydro plant. Because of FERC requirments that easement allows recreatinoal access across my families lands. That's the exception rather than the rule.

 

If the owner puts up a no tresspassing sign it wins, except for uses allowed by the easment which are typically access to maintain the utility.

 

Bottom line. Start with the land owner. They usually reserve all the rights they don't give the utility including the right of access to their lands.

[+TotemLake]

Utility easement sometimes involves privately owned land which would mean the No Tresspassing trumps general public use of the easement. The easement right-of-way is originally for the Utility companies ability to gain access to the land without first gaining permission from the landowner. It does not necessarily mean the general public gains a default right-of-way.

 

....and RK beat me to the punch...

Edited February 14, 2006 by TotemLake

[+Team GPSaxophone]

An easement is there to allow the utility company access for a specific purpose. The utility likely can not host a company party on said easement, neither can you place a geocache there.

 

If there's a no trespassing sign, it doesn't matter who owns the land, it's against the guidelines to place a cache there.

[Max Cacher]

Road Right of Way is misunderstood in Tennessee, in almost all cases someone owns the land and a right of way has been given // taken for “Services” like sewer, water line, electric, phone, cable lines, ect.. No where is the right of way contracts does it allow for a geocache. Its up to whom ever owns the land

 

Your state and mileage may vary

 

Max Cacher

Geocaching.com Volunteer Cache Reviewer // Moderator

[+vree]

after a little more digging, i see that the parcel of land in question is owned by a company, although the land has not been developed yet. i understand that utility companies have the right to go service their property which sits on that landowner's land. the other cacher used the term "easement" but i think in this case it's only the utility companies that may have been granted the easement. since the signs are posted, i'll just take that as a note that i'm not wanted there.

 

i appreciate all the input.

[+Renegade Knight]

Totem Lake has a good observation. Some easements are prescriptive. Because the utility is there it has the right to be there even though there was never a formal easement given or recorded.

 

In the West this is very common for Canals.

[+edscott]

Buy a yellow hard hat and orange vest and go caching....

[+vree]

Buy a yellow hard hat and orange vest and go caching....

i have a white hard hat but i don't use it while caching. just as i wouldn't want someone walking around on my property pretending to be a utility worker, i'll not walk around on others' private property (especially since it is marked as such) pretending to be something i am not.

[+GClouse]

An easement is a defined area where the property owner is prohibited from building permanent structures. A right-of-way allows persons or organizations to cross property without explicit consent of the property owner. For example easements are common in residential areas to prevent houses from being built too close to streets. If you want to add to your house, you cant build on the easement.

An uncle of mine, lives on a large dairy farm. Onw his property is an old cemetary. Part of his driveway which is almost 1/4 mile long is considered a public access right-of-way to the cemetary, which is a local historic site. So anyone who wants to visit the cemetary, can not be charged with tresspassing , if they stay on the right-of-way.

[+Cpt.Blackbeard]

Years ago Dad rented a farm with a utility "telephone" easement across several of the fields. One year the company had to send a work crew in and they destroyed some of the crops in the easement doing the repair work. Since Dad owned the crops they offered to pay him $50.00 in damages. He said not enough so they upped it to $200.00 and a new baseball cap with their LOGO on it, which he accepted as fair.

So if you travel down an easement and do any damage, be prepared tp pay, it's the law.

[+Harry Dolphin]

A utility right of way across private property only gives the utility the right to be there. Anyone else is trespassing. Not that a lot of people worry about trespassing. My parents had a piece of vacation property in upstate New York, with a Tennessee Gas Transmission Company pipeline across it. The land is posted against hunting and trespassing. So one day, we see a Pinto with a deer tied to the roof, halfway down the hill, with two Jeeps trying to pull it out. "This is private property, posted against hunting." They ran over our mailbox in the middle of the night.

Any presence on private land is considered trespassing. It is up to you to know if the land you are on is private or public.

[+briansnat]

a utility right of way (e.g. power line ROW with hiking path underneath) is available for public use.

 

In a case like this the easment was probably negotiated with the power company to allow the hiking path. Users are usually restricted to the hiking path.

 

I was marginally involved with a situation like this where we were building a trail that crossed a power line for about 50 feet. After months of research we still couldn't find who actually was responsible for the property. A power company had an easement from another power company, which had an easement from the state (we think). The state said it was one power company, that power company said it was another and that power company said it was the state. It can be very complicated.

 

Generally, if there is a marked hiking trail there, it is probably legal somehow and its OK to be there. Placing a cache there is a different story.

[+vree]

thanks for all the input, everyone. since easements and right-of-ways seem to be somewhat of a gray area i was looking for some more info. i feel like the situation which started my search for more info was pretty black and white. numerous no trespassing signs, no hiking trail (marked or otherwise), county records show this lot as private property...

 

when i hit the SBA i got a kind of nasty email from the placer, implying that i am an "uninformed cacher" and saying that "cachers should understand what road right of ways and utility easements are all about before passing judgment." so i want to make sure i *do* understand about right of ways and utility easements.

 

this sign is posted on all the light poles on the road to the cache (click for larger)

and this picture was taken about 20ish feet away from where the gps was pointing and where the hider said the cache was located. to retreive the cache, you'd have to park your car on the street, pass this sign and walk onto the property to find the cache (magnetic, according to the hint) on either a "warning: buried cable" sign or an outside plant phone cabinet.

 

i was uncomfortable and didn't search for the cache. the cache placer ended up archiving this and emailed me after cooling down saying that, "Those signs were quite intimidating and you weren't the only one to raise a concern."

 

i don't like logging SBAs because they seem to ruffle feathers, but i felt like this situation was pretty clearly not appropriate.

[+edscott]

I notice the sign had no signature in the spaces at the bottom. Often adjoining landowners post property that is not theirs just to maintain some personal space. In a state park very close to me, a local landowner has posted almost 200 acres with no tresspassing signs. Visitors usually stay away but the locals know he is a nut case and ignore them.

[+vree]

well, according to the county GIS website, Sexton Properties LLC owns the land, not local or state government, so it is private property regardless of who put up the signs. but the other concern i have is that the cache was on utility company property. this is kind of a moot point now since the cache has been archived, but personally i like to play it safe and err on the side of caution and i think it's in the best interest of geocaching to play it that way.

[+abacab]

An easement by definition is the ownership of an interest in a piece of land. This interest is usually defined specifically in the deed pertaining to the property. Here in Ontario, most of the easement documents I have read with respect to utilities specify:

 

1. Legal description of the parcel, example: a strip of land 50 feet wide running parallel to the westerly limit of lot 40 on a plan of subdivision registered in the county land registry office as plan 99999.

 

2. The right to build, maintain and use the utility.

 

3. To travel along the easement.

 

4. Who has the right to use it "Employees, servants or agents of said utility"

 

5. The right to trim or fell trees or brush.

 

6. An agreement to repair or restore anything damaged along the easement by it's use.

 

An easement still belongs to the owner of the surrounding lands, but in addition to allowing the utility to use it, he/she must also not encumber the easement in any way, such as building structures on it, or doing any work or damage to it that makes it unusable by the utility.

 

Public streets, however, are not for the specific use of any one utility or person. This gives any utility the right to use it. Rights-of-Way are identical to easements, except they are granted in the favour of a person or persons for access to property that does not have frontage on a public street. So, if for example a cottager has a right of way over his neighbours driveway, his neighbour cannot tear up his driveway and relocate it elsewhere, thus denying his access.

 

Quite often easements can be released if they are no longer needed, provided the utility is agreeable. Usually easements are agreed upon in an amicable manner, but in cases where the landowner refuses to grant the easement, an easement can be expropriated by the municipality, similar to the way a municipality can expropriate total ownership from someone for a new road, etc.

 

At least, this is how it works up here! So trespassing is trespassing, even on a utility easement, unless you work for the utility either directly or under contract, or unless you are specifically given the right in the deed!

[+Two Geeks and a GPS]

How about power line ROW's (for lack of a better term) that go through state parks, forests etc.

You could place a cache there, provided you stay away from "equipment" and the DNR allows the placement of caches......which Michigan sometimes doesn't