Cacher Of The Month 2006

February 16, 2006

Thats weird, I copied it straight from PayPal before. Just done it again and it works? Anyway, don't bother, I don't drink enough beer!

1.7k · February 16, 2006

A couple of months ago I asked for a review on the TB rules BEFORE a new year started. I think the problem with it is that 1 or 2 people started logging everything they spotted at events, then other people saw what they were doing and started doing it too.

I know that's what happened with my scores. I spotted others were counting coins as personal TBs and I thought I'd do the same. I realised that the situation we have now would happen, but everyone declined to comment at the time. How come people see it as an issue now and not then?

I agree that it needs to be changed, but how do we sort out the retrospective issue? For example, the records for TBs released and TBs found in a month records would probably be impossible to top if the rules changed.

T

2.5k · February 16, 2006

As for caches how can doing 10 caches of 1/1 match someone doing 10 of 5/5?

Maybe because to some cachers a 1/1 is the equivalent of a 5/5 to someone else. Please remember people of all ability's go caching. Not just the extremely fit and healthy. By saying that caches with higher difficulty ratings should be awarded more points, is discriminatory against those with disability's!

Dave

I'm not denying that some people have disabilities, but this group hardly do 10's or 100's of caches a month; and therefore their stats tend to be for their personal enjoyment. But there are people who will do a whole series of 1/1 just to gain lots of points. I myself love caches with a challenge and I feel that CoTM does not reward me for that adventure.

3.7k · February 16, 2006

Tigger,

...I think the problem with it is that 1 or 2 people started logging everything they spotted at events...

For example, the records for TBs released and TBs found in a month records would probably be impossible to top if the rules changed.

...but we only count TBs moved, so why the need for a rule change? If you log one at en event, you don't move it, so it shouldn't be counted.

HH

1.7k · February 16, 2006

...but we only count TBs moved, so why the need for a rule change? If you log one at en event, you don't move it, so it shouldn't be counted.

HH

There is the get out clause for personal TBs, such as cars, people, coins and also event log books. It started getting out of hand once people had several of these. I DID ask for clarification of the rule as I saw others were counting them.

T

3.7k · February 16, 2006

Ah - I wasn't aware of that extra rule! I wouldn't have voted for it...

HH

February 16, 2006

Ok how does this sound:

3. Travel bugs and Geocoins will be counted on the day you picked them up. All bugs/coins need to be picked up to be moved to be counted. Travel bugs or Geocoins logged out and then back into caches or events do not count.

I don't see this as a rule change as such, more just clearing up any confusion.

With regards to the cache points, I think its better to stay as it is. I can't think of a way to make it work without having to have people input the GC code of each cache they've found, something which is just going to take too long.

Also, I can just imagine the debate about how one 5/5 cache is not as hard as another 5/5 cache so can X be awarded more points.

Another thing is, the D/T ratings wouldn't take into account the amount of effort someone has put in to find a cache. For example, if a 1/1 cache is 50 miles from someones home, and to get to it they must go on four buses because they don't have public transport, then they'd still only receive 1 points (or whatever it was). I don't think this would serve to further the aims of COTM to encourage Geocaching.

1.2k · February 16, 2006

I agree with the new rule about only counting a TB you've moved from one cache to another and only counting TB's released, as opposed to activated.

All scoring systems are arbitary, I think the current scoring system is good, it suits everyone who enters and I see there are plenty of new entries, so it is working fine.

In terms of checking you shouldn't have to check anyone's stats. Whoever comes second will do that if they feel strongly about it... .

Great site Adam, well done.

Editted slightly as Adam posted again...

Edited February 16, 2006 by Kitty Hawk

3.9k · February 16, 2006

Sounds good to me Adam.

1.7k · February 16, 2006

The get out clause with personal TBs now seems to make things unworkable/unfair, so I'm all for changing it. Anyone going for Matt or Ian's COTM TB records will just have to work a little harder

T

Edited to add: If it is going to be changed, it would be a good idea to email all registered users of the change. Not everyone reads the forums all the time.

Edited February 16, 2006 by Pengy&Tigger

2.5k · February 16, 2006

Ok how does this sound:

3. Travel bugs and Geocoins will be counted on the day you picked them up. All bugs/coins need to be picked up to be moved to be counted. Travel bugs or Geocoins logged out and then back into caches or events do not count.

I don't see this as a rule change as such, more just clearing up any confusion.

With regards to the cache points, I think its better to stay as it is. I can't think of a way to make it work without having to have people input the GC code of each cache they've found, something which is just going to take too long.

Also, I can just imagine the debate about how one 5/5 cache is not as hard as another 5/5 cache so can X be awarded more points.

Another thing is, the D/T ratings wouldn't take into account the amount of effort someone has put in to find a cache. For example, if a 1/1 cache is 50 miles from someones home, and to get to it they must go on four buses because they don't have public transport, then they'd still only receive 1 points (or whatever it was). I don't think this would serve to further the aims of COTM to encourage Geocaching.

Well I will give CoTM a miss it seam like a pointless race where people who do drive bys can win and people who take on a challenge have no chance of gaining extra point, for the hard effort of getting a cache. Looks like CoTM is just making quantity and not Quality.

Edited February 16, 2006 by Moote

3.7k · February 16, 2006

Sounds good: but shouldn't the TB/Geocoin be counted on the day you drop it off? It's a small point, but whilst we're discussing it we may as well answer all the questions.

It may be that you pick up a TB with the intention of moving it on, but then end up returning it to the same cache (e.g. you cancel your intended weekend trip, so place the bug back in the local TB Hotel you picked it up from as you can't help it out). It would also encourage the TB dropoff, which is more useful than the pickup.

HH

1.7k · February 16, 2006

Sounds good: but shouldn't the TB/Geocoin be counted on the day you drop it off?

I think it was discussed last month - The only confusion is say if you counted one you picked up in January, it would get counted again in February when you dropped it off. If it is to be changed then a 'cutover' guideline needs to be in place.

T

February 16, 2006

Yes that is true HH but it would be difficult to change now. People might end up logging TBs twice which would create even more confusion. Whilst it is a good idea, I think it might be better to only change on thing at a time.

Moote: You have made your opinions clear in previous posts. If you don't wish to participate then thats okay, don't feel the need to keep justifying that decision.

P&T: I will let everyone know the plan very soon via email, leaving plenty of time for feedback.

2.5k · February 16, 2006

Yes that is true HH but it would be difficult to change now. People might end up logging TBs twice which would create even more confusion. Whilst it is a good idea, I think it might be better to only change on thing at a time.

Moote: You have made your opinions clear in previous posts. If you don't wish to participate then thats okay, don't feel the need to keep justifying that decision.

P&T: I will let everyone know the plan very soon via email, leaving plenty of time for feedback.

I'll justify all I want CoTM is just a pointless race with no real consideration!

February 16, 2006

I'll justify all I want CoTM is just a pointless race with no real consideration!

Having just read all of this thread for the first time, I would say that there has been a very considered response, but clearly noone else is supporting your view. Any system other than awarding the same points for any cache would be bound to produce all kinds of other problems....such as people upping the difficulty rating of caches that they set.

Edited February 16, 2006 by Firth of Forth

3.3k · February 16, 2006

I'll justify all I want CoTM is just a pointless race with no real consideration!

Like a scratched record... someone eventually takes the stylus off and bungs the record back in the sleeve

1.7k · February 16, 2006

I'll justify all I want CoTM is just a pointless race with no real consideration!

Well it's worked okay for the last 2 years - and the number of people taking part shows how successful it is.

If it was any more complicated to calculate scores, I'm not sure so many people would take part.

T

February 16, 2006

I've just read the this thread for the first time.

I would like to make a few points:

1. The old system worked fine (ie. 10 points for cache regardless of difficulty)

2. Even though I am guilty, I agree with the tb points being for TB's which have been moved and not personal coins etc - like others I was following the trend.

3. If anyone doesn't like it, they don't have to take part, but equally they don't need to moan about it either!

4. It's a bit of fun that's all - you don't win anything!

5. If winning is important to you, get out and find some caches, rather than sitting here and debating the issue.

6. Great job Adam - keep it up!

1.2k · February 16, 2006

I'll justify all I want CoTM is just a pointless race with no real consideration!

Like a scratched record... someone eventually takes the stylus off and bungs the record back in the sleeve

It really is the same for me. My Controls, left hand side, 5th from from bottom. :huh:

February 16, 2006

Perhaps a scoring system similar to olympic figure skating would be better?

What, one based on favouritism, politics, and backhanders!

Alll one has to do is to Adam's Beer Fund.

Well I bought you a couple of pints at lunchtime, but you didn't turn up so I had to drink them for you too!

1.1k · February 17, 2006

I'll justify all I want CoTM is just a pointless race with no real consideration!

Like a scratched record... someone eventually takes the stylus off and bungs the record back in the sleeve

And the record is "Basket Case" by Green Day - See Da Rubber Chicken for the music, but the first verse goes:

"Do you have the time?, to listen to me whine, about nothing and everything all at once." :huh:

2k · February 17, 2006

Ok how does this sound:.......

.....

Sounds good to me Adam :huh: .

February 17, 2006

I'll justify all I want CoTM is just a pointless race with no real consideration!

Like a scratched record... someone eventually takes the stylus off and bungs the record back in the sleeve

And the record is "Basket Case" by Green Day - See Da Rubber Chicken for the music, but the first verse goes:

"Do you have the time?, to listen to me whine, about nothing and everything all at once."

Or these lyrics by a little known band called The Wage of Sin:

All you do is complain

I have no pity for you

Make choices of your own

It's the way to get through

Although they have probably never even heard of records and only do MP3 or CD

1.9k · February 17, 2006

If ya don't like how its being done then start up your own COTM table. :huh:

2.3k · February 17, 2006

OK, I'm going to bite.

I agree with Alibags that this is how it stands at the moment, and that this was fine when at the average event there were maybe 5 or six personal bugs coins etc.

Now with so many personal coin collections, someone could have attended one event, logged all the personal coins, found no caches and come about 5th in the table (if they picked the right event). I don't think that is in the spirit of COTM.

so what happens now to my two bugs, Daniel who is my youngest son and Jess and our Jeep they obviously wont fit into a cache box and cannot be moved in such a way, they are only ever logged at events maybe 2-3 times per year

M :huh:

2.3k · February 17, 2006

sorry i quoted the wrong thing.........sorry ali and ian

M :huh:

2.3k · February 17, 2006

Right, Alibags has got it right and rutson has identified the loophole.

I propose a rule change such that TBs/coins count ONLY if they are moved, any trackables that are not picked up and moved to another cache are not to count. So any logs at events, or items logged in and out to get icons or whatever would not contribute to a users ranking in the COTM tables. This would be regardless of the mission of the item that might say its goal is to be logged by loads of cachers.

Any comments?

so what happens now to my three bugs, Daniel who is my youngest son and Jess and our Jeep they obviously wont fit into a cache box and cannot be moved in such a way, they are only ever logged at events maybe 2-3 times per year

M

Edited February 17, 2006 by Us 4 and Jess

February 17, 2006

so what happens now to my two bugs, Daniel who is my youngest son and Jess and our Jeep they obviously wont fit into a cache box and cannot be moved in such a way, they are only ever logged at events maybe 2-3 times per year

M

Well I sincerely hope they will continue to be logged and met at events for many years to come, they just won't be counted in anyones stats for the purpose of the COTM friendly, chilled out, not agressively competative in any way, competition :huh:

2.3k · February 17, 2006

tis ok i misunderstood until i have read the full thread (which took ages with all the ramblings)

they can still be logged but wont count as part of the CoTM, thats ok by me as I know Daniel likes to be logged and folks love chasing Jess for her bug number :huh:

the CoTM is just for FUN I think we have forgotten what fun and enjoyment is this is way too seroius...........chill out

M

Cacher Of The Month 2006

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