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BilboB

Finding A Cache Without Gpsr

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I know some cachers do not use a GPSr to find caches, but the cache I am trying to set up would require you not to use one, or at least use it in the standard way we are used to.

 

I am trying to set up a multi-stage cache along the compass course of the local military college. I want cachers to use thier brains, a compass and the MGRS (Military Grid Reference System) to find the points leading to the final site. Is this a good idea? Should the points remain in standard lat/long?

 

The listing would give a basic (very basic) intro to MGRS and explain what they needed to do (it isnt that hard once you get used to it) to find the points. The total hiking length (it would be on the side of a half-cleared 2000' hill) would be 3-4 miles long. Any thoughts?

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If a compass isn't required, how is it geocaching?

 

Now if it was some mixture of the two, with compass steps and GPS steps in a multi, that could be pretty cool, IMO :rolleyes:

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A local nite cache gives coordinates to a spot, to which from there you have to follow the reflectors with a flashlight... You dont exactly find the cache itself with the GPS or the coordinates....

 

This doesnt sound much different from a puzzle or other cache you have to figure out the final coordinates, or project a waypoint, or whatever.

 

Having served in the military, and an "expert" at landnav, your idea sounds like a fun exercise to me.

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If a compass isn't required, how is it geocaching?

 

Now if it was some mixture of the two, with compass steps and GPS steps in a multi, that could be pretty cool, IMO <_<

I think if the original post is read more carefully you will find a compass will be very essential in finding the cache.

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To be a geocache it should, at least, require the use of a GPS to get you to some part of it. Therefore you must have some lat and long.

 

Just giving the coords for the parking lot aren't quite enough either if you give enough information so that the parking lot could be found anyway.

 

Work out a way to include GPSr use and I see no problem - maybe hide the basic compass instructions at some coords - just my 2 cents.....

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If a compass isn't required, how is it geocaching?

 

Now if it was some mixture of the two, with compass steps and GPS steps in a multi, that could be pretty cool, IMO <_<

I think if the original post is read more carefully you will find a compass will be very essential in finding the cache.

Dang. I mis-typed. I meant to say, If a GPS isn't required, how is it geocaching?

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Sounds like a letterbox to me, but it isn't a geocache.

Then may I assume that in your opinion I am not a geocacher?

A geocache's location, or part of the hunt, is always (should be anyway) described using coordinates. Using a GPS or a map is irrelevant. A GPS is nothing more than a gadget that tells you, roughly, where you are at any point in time. If you can properly read a map, and have available for the area you are in, then you can do the same thing.

 

A GPS is to a map as a PDA is to a notebook full of printouts.

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Ed, I think it's a kewl idea. Sounds like numerous other puzzle/offset caches where the cache page provides the Lat/Lon coordinates for the proposed parking, then the players brain takes over, (with a little help from their compass), to find the cache.

 

Go for it!

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To be a geocache it should, at least, require the use of a GPS to get you to some part of it. Therefore you must have some lat and long.

 

Just giving the coords for the parking lot aren't quite enough either if you give enough information so that the parking lot could be found anyway.

 

Work out a way to include GPSr use and I see no problem - maybe hide the basic compass instructions at some coords - just my 2 cents.....

 

To be a geocache it should, at least, require the use of a GPS to get you to some part of it. Therefore you must have some lat and long.

 

Just giving the coords for the parking lot aren't quite enough

 

Wanna bet?

Edited by BlueDeuce

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Wanna bet?

sure

(but I don't quite get how exactly my opinion is wrong - it being just my opinion after all)

 

Based on: There was a recent thread about placing a cache in a library and the street address to the library was given. Coords led to the front door. Cache was denied because a GPS is not required to find the cache.

 

Based on: the basic description of Geocaching

What is Geocaching?

 

Geocaching is an entertaining adventure game for gps users. Participating in a cache hunt is a good way to take advantage of the wonderful features and capability of a gps unit. The basic idea is to have individuals and organizations set up caches all over the world and share the locations of these caches on the internet. GPS users can then use the location coordinates to find the caches. Once found, a cache may provide the visitor with a wide variety of rewards. All the visitor is asked to do is if they get something they should try to leave something for the cache.

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I know some cachers do not use a GPSr to find caches, but the cache I am trying to set up would require you not to use one, or at least * use it in the standard way we are used to.

 

I am trying to set up a multi-stage cache along the compass course of the local military college. I want cachers to use thier brains, a compass and the MGRS (Military Grid Reference System) to find the points leading to the final site. Is this a good idea? Should the points remain in standard lat/long?

 

The listing would give a basic (very basic) intro to MGRS and explain what they needed to do (it isnt that hard once you get used to it) to find the points. The total hiking length (it would be on the side of a half-cleared 2000' hill) would be 3-4 miles long. Any thoughts?

I think you need a 'not' here??

 

compass, reference, etc. I'd say it sounds a lot like orienteering (though Im not familar with MGRS?).

To make sure you get it approved as a geocache you'll want to work in the use a gps. Like use gps to get to the starting point... and maybe put some 'check' locations in the hints. That way when someone gets halfway threw and realizes they maybe be offtrack, they can get back on course.

If you don't problem you may run into is getting something thats not very geocache like approved. I mean if you can't use your gps to find it why is it listed here? But if you work gps use into it, its some sort of crossover hybrid thing.

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Based on: There was a recent thread about placing a cache in a library and the street address to the library was given. Coords led to the front door. Cache was denied because a GPS is not required to find the cache.

I guess I missed this thread. Was the problem that a gps wasn't needed at all? or that you could finish the cache without a gps? <_<

Because if its the latter, then doesn't that mean a number of letterbox hybrid, offset and mystery caches should be nixed?

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Wanna bet?

sure

(but I don't quite get how exactly my opinion is wrong - it being just my opinion after all)

 

Based on: There was a recent thread about placing a cache in a library and the street address to the library was given. Coords led to the front door. Cache was denied because a GPS is not required to find the cache.

 

Based on: the basic description of Geocaching

What is Geocaching?

 

Geocaching is an entertaining adventure game for gps users. Participating in a cache hunt is a good way to take advantage of the wonderful features and capability of a gps unit. The basic idea is to have individuals and organizations set up caches all over the world and share the locations of these caches on the internet. GPS users can then use the location coordinates to find the caches. Once found, a cache may provide the visitor with a wide variety of rewards. All the visitor is asked to do is if they get something they should try to leave something for the cache.

No, I'm not talking about opinion. I'm talking about caches that don't require a gps beyond the parking lot.

 

Now granted I can only give examples of previously approved caches, I'll have to assume that the same style caches are still being approved.

 

Perhaps if I can find one listed within the, say last six months to a year, would that fall into the currently being approved category? (cough) mystery caches (cough)

Edited by BlueDeuce

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Based on: There was a recent thread about placing a cache in a library and the street address to the library was given. Coords led to the front door. Cache was denied because a GPS is not required to find the cache.

I guess I missed this thread. Was the problem that a gps wasn't needed at all? or that you could finish the cache without a gps? <_<

Because if its the latter, then doesn't that mean a number of letterbox hybrid, offset and mystery caches should be nixed?

I'm looking now - but as I recall the issue was that you could leave the GPS at home due to the driving directions and physical address of the library being listed on the cache page.

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Wanna bet?

sure

(but I don't quite get how exactly my opinion is wrong - it being just my opinion after all)

 

Based on: There was a recent thread about placing a cache in a library and the street address to the library was given. Coords led to the front door. Cache was denied because a GPS is not required to find the cache.

 

Based on: the basic description of Geocaching

What is Geocaching?

 

Geocaching is an entertaining adventure game for gps users. Participating in a cache hunt is a good way to take advantage of the wonderful features and capability of a gps unit. The basic idea is to have individuals and organizations set up caches all over the world and share the locations of these caches on the internet. GPS users can then use the location coordinates to find the caches. Once found, a cache may provide the visitor with a wide variety of rewards. All the visitor is asked to do is if they get something they should try to leave something for the cache.

No, I'm not talking about opinion. I'm talking about caches that don't require a gps beyond the parking lot.

 

Now granted I can give examples of previously approved caches, I'll have to assume that the same style caches are still being approved.

 

Perhaps if I can find one listed within the, mmmmm, last six months to a year, would that fall into the currently being approved category?

No - no

 

I think you misunderstand. If I give you directions (ie take exit 10 off of I-80 and go 3 miles east to the XYZ parking lot and then follow thse orienteering directions) then you don't need a GPS to even get that far. IMHO - if you can leave the GPS at home and go based solely on info in the cache page than it isn't much of a geocache. Just my opinion - 2 cents - off the top of my head.

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No - no

 

I think you misunderstand. If I give you directions (ie take exit 10 off of I-80 and go 3 miles east to the XYZ parking lot and then follow thse orienteering directions) then you don't need a GPS to even get that far. IMHO - if you can leave the GPS at home and go based solely on info in the cache page than it isn't much of a geocache. Just my opinion - 2 cents - off the top of my head.

That's cool. I'm just saying there are caches that...(good caches actually)...that you don't need a gps or a compass to find and they are being approved.

 

The first that come to mind are the ones you use a printed picture to find your way and then match up with the location.

 

Edit

 

I don't know if you consider that caching, but it's listed on gc.com nontheless.

Edited by BlueDeuce

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That's cool. I'm just saying there are caches that...(good caches actually)...that you don't need a gps or a compass to find and they are being approved.

 

In reality you don't NEED a GPS to find any cache if you're willing to look long enough.

For it to be listed on this site however, it needs to be referenced by coordinates somehow. What the OP proposed is not a geocache and I doubt it would be listed on this website.

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Sounds like a letterbox to me, but it isn't a geocache.

Then may I assume that in your opinion I am not a geocacher?

Seeing as all the caches you've placed were referenced by coordinates, I'd have to say you are a placer of geocaches. That would make you a geocacher.

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My take on the Lat and Long of it is that a GPS makes use of fixing a position relative to satellites in stationary orbit that can be plotted on maps that use the same nomenclature. Once a position (the final cache coordinates) is established, via paper maps or electronic devices the "cacher" or "seeker" is then required to use their skills and abilities to locate the hidden cache. We jumped into geocaching before we had a GPS and logged almost thirty finds. ( see article in Sept Today's Cacher E-Zine under people). We embrace the GPSr and have a great one we use for the more challanging caches, but we still enjoy finding local caches without using the satellites. We do use lots of maps, web-sites and a good compass. We are hikers adn not micros hunters, no condemnation, just preference. In fact we encouraged folks to include clues - encrypted or not- in their descriptions for those who might not want to follow their GPS and miss some of the beauty out there. I feel safe in saying we all like well written description and sometimes that's what gets us out the door. How we get there is one topic, a better one is what we find along the way.

 

Today's Cacher

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I am trying to set up a multi-stage cache along the compass course of the local military college.

Norwich? Cool!!! They did a good job at the Intercollegiate Orienteering Championships in Missouri last April and I'm looking forward to seeing their current team at the Beaver Brook NH meet next month.

 

I want cachers to use thier brains, a compass and the MGRS (Military Grid Reference System) to find the points leading to the final site.  Is this a good idea?  Should the points remain in standard lat/long?

How close is MGRS to UTM or lat/long? I would think that if you offered MGRS with something a GPSer could use, or used UTM which both map users and GPSers can use, that could be a nice compromise.

 

The listing would give a basic (very basic) intro to MGRS and explain what they needed to do (it isnt that hard once you get used to it) to find the points.  The total hiking length (it would be on the side of a half-cleared 2000' hill) would be 3-4 miles long.  Any thoughts?

Three miles of hiking is a major expedition for more than a few in this hobby as is. Those who are new to topo maps should probably have some easier efforts for their first few tries at battery-free caching.

 

For those of us who have crossed over from orienteering (and others with some map experience), this does sound like a lot of fun. Having a gridded map gives us a chance at a multi without returning to the computer at each stage to plot a new map on lostoutdoors.com.

 

One other possible compromise, (1) provide coordinates to an easy first stage just off the parking lot with the map and instructions stored there, (2) spell out the traditional coodinates to the later stages in ROT-13 (proofread it!!!) and provide those onsite with the map instructions. That would provide a mulligan for those who just miss it trying with the map and a way around for those who insist on sticking with the GPSR.

 

One final point, there is always room for a geocache that involves a cool hike. Try to find a format that anyone who wants to hike can enjoy, regardless of how they navigate.

Edited by QOCMike

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The Old Ranch only gives coordinates for the general area. How you find it depends on your skill with either a GPS or a Map.

As long as it starts out with a GPS and coordinates what you do after that is up to your creativity. The more stars with a D seperates the Dummys from the lot.

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