Non-gps Caching

[+Bill & Tammy]

My wife and I (and the kids) started caching very recently. We do not use a GPS but however rely on a compass, topographical maps and satellite images. We have been very succesful at this on the limited number of caches we have sought (have found every one). I am now thinking I may continue non-GPS as it is more challenging and really makes you aware of your surroundings.

 

But, eventually we want to start placing and maintaining our own caches but without a GPS it may be impossible to report the exact coords (any ideas?)

 

Also wondering if there are any other non-GPSers that can offer tips or other encouragement, like maybe an organized non-GPS caching group etc?

[+edscott]

Placing caches without a GPS is just as easy as finding them. Use a good photo and be sure to select a location that is totally visible from the air, or close enough to such a spot that you can measure or pace to the location. It will undoubtedly look very easy to you, but most of the GPS folks will not have the advantage of being able to read the photo with the 1 or 2 meter accuracy that you probably have found is possible. You probably should have a fellow cacher verify the first couple hides with a GPS to be sure you have the hang of it and to eliminate any cause for concern from those that do not trust the maps and photos.

 

www.lostoutdoors.com can be used to get exact coordinates.

 

GPS-less geocaching is a great way to combine map reading and tracking. Advise?? Find the closest point you can identify from the air, go there and pace to the cache.. sign in try to get into the head of the cache hider. Think of where you would place it within the immediate area. Look for signs of foot traffic... bent grass... ruffled leaves.

 

If you like GPS-less geocaching you will LOVE orienteering.

 

Email me if you want to discuss this further..

[+geognerd]

Good descriptions of the location, a la NGS benchmark descriptions, would be necessary. When I got started with this stuff, I couldn't wait to go geocaching but didn't have a GPS yet, so I hunted benchmarks. You don't even need a GPS for that. In fact, anytime I ever tried using GPS to find a benchmark, I've had trouble. It's much easier to go from the benchmark descriptions than the posted coordinates.

[+edscott]

Good descriptions of the location, a la NGS benchmark descriptions, would be necessary.  When I got started with this stuff, I couldn't wait to go geocaching but didn't have a GPS yet, so I hunted benchmarks.  You don't even need a GPS for that.  In fact, anytime I ever tried using GPS to find a benchmark, I've had trouble.  It's much easier to go from the benchmark descriptions than the posted coordinates.

Agree if you are a "verbal" person.. but a good picture (map) is worth a thousand words to a map reader.

[+omegabane]

My most recent find turned into a GPSr-free find. Despite being near the top of a "mountain" with no tree cover, it was in a location where there was apparently some severe interference from a forest of radio and transmission towers and my GPSr couldn't get a fix. Thankfully I had a basic idea of where the cache was, and was able to locate it without the GPSr.

 

I think most of us are using a combination of non-GPS and GPS finding to some extent. I can't think of a cache I've headed out to look for without at least looking at either the Geocaching.com or Google map of the location. The map gets me to the basic area, and I use the GPS for added accuracy.

 

Good times.

[+briansnat]

I would try to discourage you from placing a cache without a GPS. Sometimes its tough enough to get good coords with one. You would have to be pretty lucky to get good coords from a map. All you need to be is 50 feet off and you're going to have some annoyed geocachers on your hands.

 

Get yourself a cheap Geko 101 and that will give you good enough coordinates, or borrow one for your placements. Or perhaps you can consider letterboxing if you have the urge to hide something without a GPS.

Edited August 18, 2005 by briansnat

[+sept1c_tank]

Although I'm not a geocacher sans GPS, I do enjoy, sometimes, putting away my receiver 200-300 feet from the cache waypoint. Sometimes this actually helps me figure out the exact hiding spot as I approach. Sometimes, because of poor coverage, this technique is necessary.

 

As far as hiding without GPS, why not just borrow a unit?

[+AtoZ]

It is not a good idea as you can not get accurate enough. Listen to the old time cachers.

cheers

[+edscott]

I would try to discourage you from placing a cache without a GPS. Sometimes its tough enough to get good coords with one. You would have to be pretty lucky to get good coords from a map. All you need to be is 50 feet off and you're going to have some annoyed geocachers on your hands.

 

Get yourself a cheap Geko 101 and that will give you good enough coordinates, or borrow one for your placements. Or perhaps you can consider letterboxing if you have the urge to hide something without a GPS.

Totally disagree.. if you use a good map it is correct.. the "spot" doesn't bounce around. Of course if the spot you select is in the middle of a nondescript chunk of forest the cacher can make a huge error.. but again the map is right.. it is the reader that is wrong. Pick places that can be seen on the photo and your coordinates will be fine. Yesterday I found a cache by reading the edge of 30 meter diameter patch of 20 year old trees within a stand of 80 year old trees. The data is there for those that can read it.

[+Colorado Cacher]

Um dude, this is called letterboxing. But your just finding more goodies in a bigger box is all.

[+Mastifflover]

If you hide one without a GPS you should probably put some kind of a disclaimer on the cache page stating that.

[+bilgeratt]

There's this guy I know, his name is Agent Okie and up until about a month ago he was a non-GPS owner. Do you have any idea how frustrating it is to log a DNF on something and then go back through previous logs and see that someone like that logged it?

 

I've met him a half dozen times, had lunch and went caching once but boy am I glad he's now a GPS owner. He was embarrassing me too much.... lol.

 

Anyways, Agent O says the only bad part about being non-GPS is that you might as well not even try the multi's. That and the difficulty of hiding your own cache.

 

Good luck with it!

[+edscott]

There's this guy I know, his name is Agent Okie and up until about a month ago he was a non-GPS owner. Do you have any idea how frustrating it is to log a DNF on something and then go back through previous logs and see that someone like that logged it?

 

I've met him a half dozen times, had lunch and went caching once but boy am I glad he's now a GPS owner. He was embarrassing me too much.... lol.

 

Anyways, Agent O says the only bad part about being non-GPS is that you might as well not even try the multi's. That and the difficulty of hiding your own cache.

 

Good luck with it!

Yes multis are a pain because if the parts are far apart you end up off the edge of the photo and have to go home and print a new one. A work around is to do a bit of math as you walk. At my latitude I know the size of a nn nn.1nn x nn nn.1nn degree plot is about 150 meters x 185 meters. I've done a couple micros that way but it is a bit more hit and miss than being armed with the perfect photo. I imagine I will avoid multis on road trips that are a significant distance north or south of here.

Edited August 19, 2005 by edscott

[+edscott]

If you hide one without a GPS you should probably put some kind of a disclaimer on the cache page stating that.

... yes that my coordinates are more likely to be perfect and will not be affected by tree cover, weather, low batteries, or human error.

Edited August 19, 2005 by edscott

[+edscott]

Um dude, this is called letterboxing. But your just finding more goodies in a bigger box is all.

Don't think letterboxers use a map.. just verbal descriptions.. Am I wrong??

[+horsegeeks]

Check out WaldenRun for quite a non-gps success story

[+AtoZ]

I would try to discourage you from placing a cache without a GPS.  Sometimes its tough enough to get good coords with one.  You would have to be pretty lucky to get good coords from a map.  All you need to be is 50 feet off and you're going to have some annoyed geocachers on your hands.

 

Get yourself a cheap Geko 101 and that will give you good enough coordinates, or borrow one for your placements.  Or perhaps you can  consider letterboxing if you have the urge to hide something without a GPS.

Totally disagree.. if you use a good map it is correct.. the "spot" doesn't bounce around. Of course if the spot you select is in the middle of a nondescript chunk of forest the cacher can make a huge error.. but again the map is right.. it is the reader that is wrong. Pick places that can be seen on the photo and your coordinates will be fine. Yesterday I found a cache by reading the edge of 30 meter diameter patch of 20 year old trees within a stand of 80 year old trees. The data is there for those that can read it.

You can NOT get the accuracey in Lat/Long off of a map.

cheers

[+briansnat]

I would try to discourage you from placing a cache without a GPS.  Sometimes its tough enough to get good coords with one.  You would have to be pretty lucky to get good coords from a map.  All you need to be is 50 feet off and you're going to have some annoyed geocachers on your hands.

 

Get yourself a cheap Geko 101 and that will give you good enough coordinates, or borrow one for your placements.  Or perhaps you can  consider letterboxing if you have the urge to hide something without a GPS.

Totally disagree.. if you use a good map it is correct.. the "spot" doesn't bounce around. Of course if the spot you select is in the middle of a nondescript chunk of forest the cacher can make a huge error.. but again the map is right.. it is the reader that is wrong. Pick places that can be seen on the photo and your coordinates will be fine. Yesterday I found a cache by reading the edge of 30 meter diameter patch of 20 year old trees within a stand of 80 year old trees. The data is there for those that can read it.

I've attempted to do this using some pretty good maps (NG Topo). In each case I was posting the coords to an event cache so accuracy wasn't important. My error was always between 100 and 200 feet.

 

Maybe if you're placing the cache near something that is easily identifiable, like a street corner it would work, but for most caches in the woods its nearly impossible to get accurate coords.

[+edscott]

...AtoZ and Briansnat Not trying to offend anyone, but if you can READ the map you can be very very accurate. Not talking about the normal USGS 1:25000 prints, but good aerial photos at an inch to 100 meters scale with the option to mark any number of spots by entering the coordinates. Check out the www.lostoutdoors.com website and choose the photo option if you are interested in understanding what I am talking about. I realize 600+ caches is not a bunch, but I feel it does prove that I am a competent cacher and don't need to be told it doesn't work.

[+Mastifflover]

I think that your missing the point here. YOU may be able to use a map to that degree of accuracy I won't argue that. But the OP is just starting out and while they have had some succes in FINDING caches with a map, it is a whole different ballgame hiding one for other people.

[+edscott]

quoting mastiflower.. I know there is a better way to do it but maps are my thing not computers and GPS units. "I think that your missing the point here. YOU may be able to use a map to that degree of accuracy I won't argue that. But the OP is just starting out and while they have had some succes in FINDING caches with a map, it is a whole different ballgame hiding one for other people."

 

snip...

But, eventually we want to start placing and maintaining our own caches but without a GPS it may be impossible to report the exact coords (any ideas?)

 

Snip...

 

Ok I understand that, but the original poster did say "eventually" so I must assume that is after they are confident of their technique. I am simply saying the tools to do it are available on line and the technique is easy for someone that has strong map reading skills.

Edited August 19, 2005 by edscott

[+edscott]

If anyone is interested.. I have just posted jpegs of my maps from today's hike. 8.5 miles round trip for one very nice cache...

 

here:

eagles nest

[+hotshoe]

Yes, it can be done, and it HAS been done: GCPKQ2 

Private Without Rank

I know the team had about fifty (non-GPS) cache finds when they hid this one. So I conclude that you do not have to be a super-experienced cacher to figure out how to hide a cache using only map-reading skills.

According to the logs, some finders said the coords were right on, some said they were 20ft off (better than a few other persons' hides). The team chose to include a really useful hint, which seems like a good strategy for a cache you actually want others to be able to find, especially if you have any doubt about your coords.

Then the team went on to successfully hide a multi cache! It has been found several times. The terrain in the area is rolling hills covered in scrub and small trees, with some roads, powerlines, and abandoned constructions characteristic of an old army base. I haven't hunted for either of these caches, but I bet that they are hidden to take advantage of some of the landmarks visible from the air, as opposed to being in the middle of the "featureless" brush.

I can't always figure out which trail to take from a topo map. My hat's off to those who can get their aerial map reading accurate enough to place - or find - tupperware in the woods. Keep up the good work - and happy caching !

[PyroDave]

Useing GIS programs i can get pics that have eather 3meter or 1 meter resolution si if your good at reading the pics and placeing it could be done.

[+Ellteejak]

OR you could just place without a GPS, and ask the FIRST TO FIND to give you their coordinates, to audit against yours.