Geocaching And Scouting

[Crooked Toe]

Yesterday I did an introduction to geocaching activity with my Cub Scouts. I set up a multi-cache by myself (it is not posted on geocaching.com), with questions for proper coordinates based on the Scouting movement. I found it to be a great teaching experience not only about geocaching, but about the outdoors. Most of the Cubs had a great time in spite of having to trek through over 40cm of snow that has fallen here in the previous three days. On top of it all the kids earned a special activity badge.

 

I would be interested in hearing from anyone else who has done, or would be interested in doing a cache related activity with scouts.

[markandlynn]

Have you checked out the education and geocaching forum here ? also the american online caching magazine had an article a while back.

[vectensis]

This thread reminds me of when (almost 45 years ago), as a boy scout, we geocached, needless to say without the use of a GPSr. We used a standard 1:50 000 OS map, with or without a compass.

 

Of course we were well versed in map reading and were able to determine the difference between grid North and magnetic North.

 

Makes me wonder really. How accurate is a GPSr compared to a 1960 boy scout?

Edited January 3, 2005 by vectensis

[+Simply Paul]

Makes me wonder really. How accurate is a GPSr compared to a 1960 boy scout?

I'm not sure about accuracy, but I've dropped my etrex 10ft onto concrete and it suffered no ill effects beyond a small dent in the plastic. The 1960 boy scout (now well into his 50's) suffered a broken hip, two cracked ribs and a fractured collarbone. I leave you to draw your own conclusions.

 

SP

[vectensis]

I sympathise - but these boy scouts are probably not (like you and I) in their 50's.

 

One wonders why they would want to take up a fairly sedentary sport such as geocaching when orienteering would probably better tax their minds and physique?

 

Isn't Geocaching meant to be for Americans, old men and ladies?

 

Anyway, your reply was more about resilience than accuracy. Does no one have an answer my question?

Edited January 3, 2005 by vectensis

[+Lizzzzeeeee]

I've done lots of geocaching activities with Cubs in my pack, district and county. If anyone wants to contact me through my profile I can let you have details of what I've done.

 

I have on occasion met resistance from people who think that using a GPS for navigating is cheating and the Scouts/Cubs should be taught the "proper way". Unfortunately times have changed since the 60s and kids are only too quick to cheat if possible. By using GPS's to get them to find needles in haystacks (not literally!) I at least hope to get across some of the important points of navigation. If they show and interest and enjoy what they're doing, hopefully they'll pay more attention next time I try to show them how to do it the "proper way".

 

I heard of a recent exercise where some Scouts were left on a drop hike to make their way back through the woods to their Scout hut equipped only with a map and compass. It was the first time they had done this so the leaders followed at a discrete distance. Despite there being a relatively short and direct route through the woods they bushwacked straight to the nearest main road and walked down the dangerous and noisy road back to their hut. Kids today just don't seem to want the challenge and are afraid to fail. They are also cossetted by their parents and so lack confidence to journey into the wider world.

 

Just my 2p worth!

[vectensis]

I too, was a Scout leader up till 8 years ago. I can't argue with that.

[+Pharisee]

...........I have on occasion met resistance from people who think that using a GPS for navigating is cheating and the Scouts/Cubs should be taught the "proper way"..............

By 'proper way' I assume you mean with a map and compass?

 

I was never a cub, scout, brownie or anything like that but I was taught how to read a map and use a compass by my Grandfather when I was about 10 years old. He was an 'old soldier' who fought in the Gallipoli campaign in 1915 and was wounded badly enough to get shipped home. He wasn't what you'd call a 'well educated' man but he had a great love for the countryside and we spent a lot of time together walking the fields and footpaths close to home.

 

I'm waffling a bit.... what I really mean to say is that while technology advances and brings us stuff like the GPSr that will become 'the proper way' to navigate, there's still room for the humble map and compass for anyone that wants to use them. They've saved many a life and I have no doubt will save a few more yet.

[+Simply Paul]

I sympathise - but these boy scouts are probably not (like you and I) in their 50's.

Just for the record I'm not in my 50's, 40's or even the second half of my 30's. I only look old and knackered. The damaged boy scout of 1960 vintage I was writing about was a fictional creation intended to bring comic relief. Very light comic relief.

 

...better tax their minds and physique?

I know some evil puzzle caches to pump-up the brain and have climbed Snowdon to find a couple of caches. There's a 10 mile walk for a cache in Beds... I think people of all ages, physical conditions and IQs can always find a cache to suit their abilities and mood if they're prepared to look and travel.

 

Isn't Geocaching meant to be for Americans, old men and ladies?

And families and children and dog-walkers and the Welsh... One of the things I love about the sport is that it's not 'lead by' or 'for' and particular social, economic, ethnic or religious group. Class, education, age and wealth play little part in it. Off the top of my head the only 'have-nots' in the sport are those in areas of scarce hides. And short people.

 

Anyway, your reply was more about resilience than accuracy. Does no one have an answer my question?

The actual question of which is the more accurate system, GPS or map and compass depends over what scale you're working to. GPS is always going to be several feet out at best, but a point exactly 100ft North of another given point should be located to within a foot with a little triangulation and trigonometry. Scale that 100ft up to 100 miles and a tiny fraction of a degree of inaccuracy will create a large variance in the target area, even with triangulation. Also the scale of the map being worked with has a part to play...

 

SP

[vectensis]

We have a lot in common Pharisee, my Grand Dad also fought in Gallipoli, demobbed on the Island, Albany Barracks. He taught me the importance of OS cartography.

 

No other country has mapping like the UK. We did after all map North America, India and the majority of the Worlds oceans. We did not, however, map the rest of the world as thoroughly we did our own country.

 

Which brings me back to my original question.

 

Given the latent inaccuracies of GPS, how would a (1960) boy scout with a 1:50 000 OS map compare to a GPSr?

[vectensis]

and the Welsh...

Surely not .................

[+Mad H@ter]

Given the latent inaccuracies of GPS, how would a (1960) boy scout with a 1:50 000 OS map compare to a GPSr?

Although not a 1960's boy scout I am a Scout (boy being dropped back 1967) of the 1970's and currently a Scout leader. Although I wouldn't proclaim to be an expert in the use of map, compass or GPSr, I do believe I am proficient in there use and able to train Scouts with varying degrees of success in there use.

Given a map and maybe a compass I believe I could find some of the simpler caches with good clues to there location in the write up. Given a GPSr I believe that even someone with limited navigational experience could find most caches eventually. As for the latent inaccuracies of GPSr these are not so great to cause a problem most of the time, particularly if a little common sense is used, whereas using 6 figure map references (anything greater is totally impractical) will get you down to a 100m square, I've never experienced inaccuracies that great on my GPSr.

So in answer to your question my nought'ies Scouts armed with a GPSr would be likely to beat this 70's Scout armed with a map and compass.

 

Am I rambling

[vectensis]

Nope. You just answered my question.

[+Mad H@ter]

Yesterday I did an introduction to geocaching activity with my Cub Scouts. I set up a multi-cache by myself (it is not posted on geocaching.com), with questions for proper coordinates based on the Scouting movement. I found it to be a great teaching experience not only about geocaching, but about the outdoors. Most of the Cubs had a great time in spite of having to trek through over 40cm of snow that has fallen here in the previous three days. On top of it all the kids earned a special activity badge.

 

I would be interested in hearing from anyone else who has done, or would be interested in doing a cache related activity with scouts.

Although I haven't done a specific Geocaching activity with my Scouts, I have introduced them to the GPSr and given a small amount of training (being able to read and interpret a map being considered more important in Scouting (& DofE)), more as a taster to alternative navigation aids they may come across.

During a hike that happened to pass close by a Geocache I did give them the opportunity to find and log it, which they all enjoyed although some did think it a bit strange . This activity did raise a couple of points that may be useful to others trying this:

1. Make sure you bring plenty of swaps with you (the Scouts wont) as it was all I could do to stop them completely stripping the cache of all its contents.

2. Make sure the cache is in a location that they (or there friend's) are unlikely to visit outside Scouting. Although they can probably be trusted not to pinch the cache, if it is local to them they would find it almost impossible not to boast to their mates about it. I have three locally and keep them secret even to my own kids.

 

What activity badge was it that the Cubs earned? Perhaps I could offer it as an activity to our Cub Pack.

[+paul.blitz]

Makes me wonder really. How accurate is a GPSr compared to a 1960 boy scout?

Of course, just being able to use a GPS as a fallback / safety soultion is a good enough reason for a scoute to be able to use one.

 

For example: (a) night hiking, someone falls & breaks a leg. Grab mobile phone (of COURSE they will have one of THOSE!!!) and call the leader, and you can then give an exact location, rather than "I *think* we're about....."; ( going up a hill, fog comes down: a classic way to get lost / hurt yourself. A GPS could well help them to safely return with far fewer risks (and yes, in this case, it HAS to be used in conjunction with an OS map)

 

Just my 2p worth....

 

Paul

 

[yes, I'm off work, with nothing else better to do......... :-) ]

[Crooked Toe]

The use of stars for navigation predates the discovery of magnetism and the invention of the compass. Do you suppose the old timers pooh-poohed the invention of the compass as being a lazy way out?

[+We'reLostAgain]

I don't personaly think there is any reason why the 2 ways cann't be used together.

 

When i go out walking i use map and compas, find my way close then turn on GPS to get me in close.

 

I been able to use a map since before i was a scout, then used 1 all thru my army career finding broken tanks.

 

Don't think it should be one or the other, GPS doesn't show footpaths and mineshafts and steep cliff, and it is hard to find a long/lat on a map.

[+rutson]

Pah! Who needs a GPS and a compass

 

http://www.geocaching.com/seek/log.aspx?LU...aa-9ba9dd3378b3