+Vader Posted August 27, 2004 Share Posted August 27, 2004 (edited) As one of those involved in this adventure I would like to add just a few things. (Talk about being behind the times, I just now found this thread.) I think some of you have hit the nail right on the head. It was an unfortunate incident that just happens some times and it wasn't handled very well ( period ). Things happen. I would like to throw a new monkey in the wrench for those of you who think that helping to haul all that equipment up the hill doesn't mean you should be able to log that cache as a find. I helped haul the rope up the hill and made the first rappel in search of the cache. I located the cache and opened it. I did not feel comfortable enough to sign the log book while I was hanging 80 feet above the ground. I hiked back up to the rest of the group and reported finding the cache. I have left my log on the cache page and reported the circumstances to the cache owner. I will let him decide if it should stay on the cache page as a find or not. What do you think? What level of involvement is necessary in order to be able to log the cache? Should everybody have been able to leave their finds on the cache page? Should I delete mine? COLORADO CAVE LOCATIONS Edited for spelling Edited August 27, 2004 by Vader Quote Link to comment
+The Puzzler Posted August 27, 2004 Share Posted August 27, 2004 What do you think? What level of involvement is necessary in order to be able to log the cache? Should everybody have been able to leave their finds on the cache page? Should I delete mine? I think the reason this tread has my ire so riled is that I sense a number of people trying to tell me how I should behave when I am out to have fun, minding my own business, trying to find a plastic box, full of often worthless trinkets that is probably placed without permission, on publically accesable land. Geez, take a qualude or some other calming drug. Get a life. Personally, I think that I will never know how much involvment any cacher huning a cache of mine would need to feel justified in logging it. But, since I hid it for cachers to have fun and adventure finding it, I will always leave the decision of when and when not to log, up to the cachers that did the work to hunt and log my cache. Even if I have rules for logging one of my caches, I will leave it up to the cacher to decide if those rules were followed sufficiently to log it. Live and let live . . . or should that be cache and let cache? Quote Link to comment
BassoonPilot Posted August 27, 2004 Share Posted August 27, 2004 (edited) Based on your argument, all of life is an ethics test and thus the argument ends without any valid point being developed. But then since we don't all share exactly the same idea of "ethical" in every detail of each case, we have to operate on a more loosely defined set of ethics that we do all share Right. And one of the accepted community norms is "Online finds appear at the sole discretion of the cache owner." So live with it. Have your fun. Just don't whine and wimper like a little baby if/when a cache owner decides that, although you had a whopping good time searching for his cache as a group, only the online logs submitted by individuals who had physically completed the cache are legitimate. I think the reason this tread has my ire so riled is that I sense a number of people trying to tell me how I should behave when I am out to have fun, minding my own business, trying to find a plastic box ... That's a blatantly false statement. You are making all of this fuss over a "smiley." In other words, receiving a "smiley" means it was a terrific cache and you and your group had a great time doing it. Being denied a "smiley" means it was a lousy cache and your group had a miserable time. Personally, I can't figure out why anyone's idea of "fun" would be predicated upon receiving a "smiley" at the end of the day. Edited August 27, 2004 by BassoonPilot Quote Link to comment
+briansnat Posted August 27, 2004 Share Posted August 27, 2004 All this fuss being made over a "smiley." Personally, I can't figure out anyone's idea of "fun" would be predicated upon receiving a "smiley" at the end of the day. How could you have had fun if you post a frownie? I mean it's a frownie, which indicates sadness, right? By posting a frownie, I'm telling the owner I didn't have fun at his cache.. Quote Link to comment
BassoonPilot Posted August 27, 2004 Share Posted August 27, 2004 How could you have had fun if you post a frownie? I mean it's a frownie, which indicates sadness, right? By posting a frownie, I'm telling the owner I didn't have fun at his cache.. Yeah, that must be it ... and posting a "note" must mean someone was ambivalent about the cache, right? Quote Link to comment
+AtoZ Posted August 27, 2004 Author Share Posted August 27, 2004 BassoonPilot are you out in LEFT field I never intened to try to pressure anyone. I was very vague in my post. I didnt even say that the event had occured just asking who can claim a cache in a stiruarion where a team effort was made to get to and find the cache. Acually after learing more of the person that placed the cache I can see waht he wanted but he never directly stated it on the cache page. It was to be an adrenline junky cache, thought a rappel isn't a ar for me as it is a tool to get out of Dodge. So what this thread turned into resulted mostly from some post on the cache page. I just thought team caching ment all could claim the benefit. From now on I'll ask the owner. cheers Quote Link to comment
BassoonPilot Posted August 27, 2004 Share Posted August 27, 2004 BassoonPilot are you out in LEFT field I never intened to try to pressure anyone. I was very vague in my post. From now on I'll ask the owner.cheers Yes, I agree you were vague. I note that one of the other members of your group is in large part responsible for the direction in which the thread developed. From now on I'll ask the owner. Great. You'll get no argument from me. As I've stated repeatedly, it's "the owner's call." Quote Link to comment
King Pellinore Posted September 4, 2004 Share Posted September 4, 2004 Fro: is the fence new? I don't remember even stepping over a fallen one. 16 February 2004 is when the fence was first mentioned. Wheretogo? Vertigo! was Hidden: 9/23/2001 so it predates the fence, just a bit. The cache being there is probably the reason for the fence, actually. Quote Link to comment
+Sagefox Posted September 4, 2004 Share Posted September 4, 2004 ...I just thought team caching ment all could claim the benefit. From now on I'll ask the owner. KP bumped this thread today and it is the first time I've read it. Skimmed the entire topic (skimming is dangerous) to look for my concept on this subject but didn't see it. The norm is that for team caching everyone who goes to the site, sees the container and signs the log gets to claim a find. The example at the beginning of this topic is an exception. Had the owner originally noted that rappelling to the site was a requirement most group cachers would honor that request. Visiting the cache site and signing the logbook, with very few exceptions such as the example given in this topic, always merits claiming it as a find. What we are recording is our visit to the site. We don't have to be the one who actually found it. If this were not the case then group caching would not be much fun and Garmin and Magellan would feel our pain and the results would appear in their financial statements. Quote Link to comment
BassoonPilot Posted September 4, 2004 Share Posted September 4, 2004 If this were not the case then group caching would not be much fun and Garmin and Magellan would feel our pain and the results would appear in their financial statements. You mean every member of a group hunt carries a GPS? It must be great fun watching all those people doing their various "drunken bee dances." The manufacturers want to sell units. The more units sold, the better. The fewer the number of group hunts, the greater the number of people seeking caches individually, the more units sold. Quote Link to comment
+Sagefox Posted September 4, 2004 Share Posted September 4, 2004 (edited) The fewer the number of group hunts, the greater the number of people seeking caches individually, the more units sold. I'm not convinced you used sound scientific method to support this statement. The group hunting I am talking about is where dedicated individual or team cachers, all owning at least one gpsr each (often more than one), get together in groups of two to 20, or more, and go out on "the hunt" together. I'm reasonably certain you understood this unless you have never cached with other account-holding cachers. When groups get together there is usually enough hardware to stock a small outdoor store. I just purchased a new gpsr unit as a result of caching with a very large group in Portland, OR this June and was able to see the advantages of newer models. We thought we could not justify the expense until we saw one in use. I don't believe I am the only one who has made a purchase based upon group caching. Edit: Yes! It is quite a hoot to see 8 to 20 gpsr holders off on slightly different tangents. A great way to see the differences between gpsr units, even of the same make an model. Once several of the worker bees establish the general area the non gpsr holding searchers, who now have the advantage, go about looking for "geocachers' billboards". Edited September 4, 2004 by Team Sagefox Quote Link to comment
BassoonPilot Posted September 4, 2004 Share Posted September 4, 2004 I'm not convinced you used sound scientific method to support this statement. Okay, but one of your statements does tend to support it: Once several of the worker bees establish the general area the non gpsr holding searchers, who now have the advantage, go about looking If they were on their own, they would need their own unit. More potential sales! The group hunting I am talking about is where dedicated individual or team cachers, all owning at least one gpsr each (often more than one), get together in groups of two to 20, or more, and go out on "the hunt" together. I'm reasonably certain you understood this unless you have never cached with other account-holding cachers. You're quite correct ... I have met many geocachers along the trails, but have never participated in one of these "group hunts." My intent is never to do so; these large group hunts are counter to why I choose to geocache. Incidentally, in the dozens of times I've met other geocachers on the trail to caches, only one person ever beat me to a cache. I like my gpsr just fine, but I guess that model must be better. Yes! It is quite a hoot to see 8 to 20 gpsr holders off on slightly different tangents. A great way to see the differences between gpsr units, even of the same make an model. I suppose it's also a good way to see who relies too much on their equipment and not enough on their own eyes, intelligence, experience, and common sense. Quote Link to comment
+Team DEMP Posted September 5, 2004 Share Posted September 5, 2004 Social skills are also a useful trait for geocachers especially when interacting with others. Quote Link to comment
+Sagefox Posted September 5, 2004 Share Posted September 5, 2004 Okay, but one of your statements does tend to support it: Once several of the worker bees establish the general area the non gpsr holding searchers, who now have the advantage, go about looking If they were on their own, they would need their own unit. More potential sales! It is my wife, for one. She will never cache alone and would never buy a gpsr for herself or even carry one of our two. But she loves geocaching. She loves to call out: "Oh, boys!" while she is holding the container up for me and Roadcow to see while we have been working through the poison oak on the other side of the dry streambed. Other team cachers also have one member with the gpsr and others who do not care to be encumbered with a tech device. And sometimes non-cachers ride along for fun because they occasionally like the hunt, the trails and the social activity. But they won't be buying a gpsr anytime soon. It is clear that you prefer to cache alone. 65% of our team finds have been found by me alone, many at night. I love caching alone. Often prefer it and can be completely entertained by it for several long days running. But I also definitely like caching with others. It is great fun. I've sampled several aspects of geocaching and find most are worth the effort. I like my gpsr just fine, but I guess that model must be better. Why do you guess that? I'm not saying that old gpsr's are scum in the bottom of buckets. I'm not claiming the new one is better. My old and trusty eMap will stay with us until it dies. The new one just has more features and interesting options to play around with and we've never had auto-routing before. That is a useful feature that can be used for non-caching navigation as well. Quote Link to comment
BassoonPilot Posted September 5, 2004 Share Posted September 5, 2004 Why do you guess that? I'm not saying that old gpsr's are scum in the bottom of buckets. I'm not claiming the new one is better. My old and trusty eMap will stay with us until it dies. The new one just has more features and interesting options to play around with and we've never had auto-routing before. That is a useful feature that can be used for non-caching navigation as well. I was joking. I own more than one gps, and I use them for much more important tasks than geocaching. Please refer to the second half of my username. Quote Link to comment
n0wae Posted September 5, 2004 Share Posted September 5, 2004 Switchdoc, Just found this thread for the first time late last night. I guess you have a right to vent too. NJ Admin was kind enough to inform me on 8-25 that it wasn't you attacking Big_G (not Vader) That is the reason I sent you an apology via PM the same day. I still feel the same about the 'team find' issue but choose not to debate it now. What's more important is for cachers to get along and enjoy the sport. I was 100% sincere in my apology and hope we can do an event or cache together some day and laugh about the time we both blew a cork. - n0wae Quote Link to comment
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