Jump to content

Presentation To Land Owners To Place Cache


Followers 3

Recommended Posts

Hello,

 

I am looking to place my first cache, and am looking for a presentation slide show (power point?) to use to present geocaching to my local town council to receive permission to place a cache on town-owned land.

 

I may be naive, but it seems to me that such a presentation would almost surely be readily available on the Hiding Your First Geocache page since no cache that is not on your own property cannot be placed without permission from either the land owner or the managing agency.

 

However, even after searching through the forums for "presentation" in the title of postings, I haven't been able to find a presentation of this type. I have found a number of presentations to give to grade school students, to community groups, and to radio hams to teach them how to become geocachers, but I have found no presentations to help in persuading a likely skeptical audience about what I would like to do -- place a geocache on town owned land.

 

I'm sure that somebody must have gone down this path already -- do you have a presentation that I can tailor for my specific presentation?

 

I have seen the alacache.com TV News video, and could see using that in part of the presentation. I anticipate describing CITO and the fact that geocaching appeals to an amazing cross-section of people in the community.

 

However, I haven't seen a powerpoint presentation that puts all of this together. Somebody out there must have given such a presentation to the folks in their town! Any help/guidance would be appreciated. Other suggestions of video clips that portray geocaching in a positive light would be helpful.

 

Thanks!

 

--ken

Link to comment
page since no cache that is not on your own property cannot be placed without permission from either the land owner or the managing agency.

 

Where'd you get this from? The guidelines ask that adequate permission be obtained, which means that where no permission is required, you already have adequate permission.

 

Here is an good thread on this subject. Besides Criminal's excellent opening post on the topic, you will see later on in the thread this post from Co Admin:

"By submitting a cache listing, you assure us that you have adequate permission to hide your cache in the selected location. "

 

Adequate permission does not meant that you MUST obtain permission for each cache you place. It does however, mean that if permission is required you get it. There are many places in the country that do not require permission to place a cache so no permission is need. That is adequate permission for that cache.

 

Now as far as your specific request for a PP presentation, I know of one very good one that's been used often and I'm sure someone here will post a link shortly.

Edited by briansnat
Link to comment

Hmm. I suppose I may have been a little overzealous in my reading of the Hiding Your First Geocache page, but it reads as follows:

Will it be on private or public land? - If you place it on private land, please ask permission before putting it there! If you place the cache on public lands you need to contact the managing agency to find out about their rules.

For private land, express consent is indicated. For public land, I agree that one would not need explicit permission to place a cache if the rules of the managing agency were publicly available and said that geocaches were permitted to be placed without express consent. However, I have not been able to find that for my town. Nor have I seen it for NH State Parks -- does anybody know where I might be able to find this?

 

--ken

 

PS: Thanks for the link to the other discussion. I'm still reading through it. I have a feeling it may address my interpretation as to whether or not express consent is required for public lands...

Link to comment

OK, I read the entire discussion (well, admittedly I skimmed through the last 150 or so posts) that briansnat referenced above.

 

Clearly there has been an ongoing debate about whether or not express permission, implied consent, and/or notification is required for placing a cache on public lands. I really don't intend to enter that fray, as I can see valid points made by many people with different perspectives.

 

I also went to the link for Geocaching Policy Info to check on published policies. Alas, none are listed for either Maine or New Hampshire, the two places I would be likely to maintain a cache.

 

Which brings me back to my original question -- can anybody point me to a presentation that would be used in talking to a town council, or parks & rec committee, or conservation commission that serves as the "land manager" for a piece of land?

 

Thanks!

 

--ken

Link to comment

If the town has no policy, they other cachers in your area probably wish you wouldnt, because if you do, the aswer will likely be no. The fact that they have no rule that says you cant place a cache means that there is no rule against it, so why give the authoritys the opportunity to make such a rule, which they could well do.

 

This is all just IMHO, but I do ask that you please deeply consider what you are gonna do, where you are gonna place the cache, and do you really need to ask permission. Also note that if you place a cache correctly no one, other than cachers, should find it, so why would they care, they will have no idea its there. My theory is if it is an area where you are allowed to walk (like the right of way for a road, or a sidewalk or path) or let your kids play (like a city park) then go ahead. This is how I do it but to each his own. (One last thing, most of my post here only applys to urban cachers and not wilderness ones)

Link to comment
If the town has no policy, they other cachers in your area probably wish you wouldnt, because if you do, the aswer will likely be no. The fact that they have no rule that says you cant place a cache means that there is no rule against it, so why give the authoritys the opportunity to make such a rule, which they could well do.

 

That happens all too often. People have been placing caches for years (well 3-4) in places, then some well meaning newbie comes along and "engages" the authorities in a discussion in hopes of getting explicit permission and its over.

 

I've heard of many success stories, where someone asked permission and found an enthusiastic park manager, but for every one of them, there are the stories where some jurisdicitons decided to put a stop to the "scourge" of geocaching once it was brought to their attention (usually by a geocacher), or they made unreasonable demands, such as requiring million dollar liability policies before placing a cache.

Edited by briansnat
Link to comment

WildEarth2001:

 

You can be sure that the point you raise is one that is very much in my thoughts. There are currently 4 geocaches placed in Bedford, NH where I live. These caches have been placed by three different cachers. I have emailed each of the owners to find out if they have already "paved the way" by working with the town officials in placing the caches. I had been hoping to leverage any goodwill they had already established. However, it turns out that all were placed unbeknownst to the town. As such, I think you're absolutely right that it may jeopardize the existing caches to make the town officials aware of the fact that I would like to place an additional cache.

 

I definitely think it would be tragic to have the existing caches removed. Then again, maybe the best way to ensure their long-term acceptance is to have the advantages of geocaching explained before a bad experience brings a cache to their attention? Or, maybe the best way to get long-term acceptance is to continue to have the hobby expand "underground" until it is so pervasive that there's no stopping it? Admittedly, I'm still on the fence about this endeavor.

 

Definitely the easiest thing to do on my part would be to just place the cache without notification to the town. I anticipate that if I make a presentation to the town, I would spend dozens of hours in preparation and that the dialogue with the town officials may require months of patient interaction. However, you can be sure that if/when I make a presentation to the town regarding the caches I would like to place, I would only make the presentation if I felt that the presentation was likely to result in an affirmative answer! I also would intend to ask the existing cache owners in the town to be able to review / proof my presentation, if I go forward with it.

 

Any templates, presantations, outlines, and notes are very much appreciated!

 

--ken

Link to comment

Anyway, here are a few that I found:

 

http://www.texasgeocaching.com/docs/geointro.swf

 

http://benoits.ca/geocaching/presentation/

 

http://www.mindspring.com/~handlere/Geocaching.pps

 

Can't vouch for their quality, because I haven't looked at them.

 

Edit:

 

Review - The first presentation (Texas Geocaching's) was short but OK, couldn't get the second to run and the last one was too heavy on explaining GPS technology and the little about geocaching seemed to dwell way to much on the possible problems caused by the sport and objections land managers may have. I would leave that stuff totally out of a presentation. Don't put the ideas in their heads. If they ask, be prepared to address the issues, but do not bring them up.

Edited by briansnat
Link to comment
Review - The first presentation (Texas Geocaching's) was short but OK, couldn't get the second to run and the last one was too heavy on explaining GPS technology and the little about geocaching seemed to dwell way to much on the possible problems caused by the sport and objections land managers may have. I would leave that stuff totally out of a presentation. Don't put the ideas in their heads. If they ask, be prepared to address the issues, but do not bring them up.

I agree with brian on these. The first one was good, but way short and redundant on a few points. The second one I didnt get to work either and the last one I also couldnt get to open, but if it has anything that might give a reason for them rejecting it, dont even mention it, unless they specifically ask for that info. THe last one might be usefull for YOU to look at so YOU know what they might ask, but do not bring anything about any of those up.

Link to comment

That happens all too often. People have been placing caches for years (well 3-4) in places, then some well meaning newbie comes along and "engages" the authorities in a discussion in hopes of getting explicit permission and its over.

 

I've heard of many success stories, where someone asked permission and found an enthusiastic park manager, but for every one of them, there are the stories where some jurisdicitons decided to put a stop to the "scourge" of geocaching once it was brought to their attention (usually by a geocacher), or they made unreasonable demands, such as requiring million dollar liability policies before placing a cache.

Well, I am a well meaning newbie who has just recently been through this. But I figured out a middle ground, that's worked nicely for me so far.

 

I asked a couple of local cachers who'd placed traditional caches in similar (jurisdictional) places whether they'd gotten permission. They had. In fact, one was very anxious to keep everything extremely above-board with the local townships etc., as she's spent a lot of time in negotiations with them (though there is no published policy).

 

So I gritted my teeth, simply called up the Authorities in question (2 caches), and asked. They said yes. Some minor stipulations (clear container) in one case, no problem. In fact one said (and I quote): "Go have fun with it." Now THAT's a park manager! I did get turned down by somebody else (land owned by a public golf course), no problem, didn't put it there.

 

I don't think there is any substitute for finding out what the local environment is like, and the only way for you to do that is to contact a couple of the prolific local hiders. Most likely they will be happy to give you all the information you need to make your decision about what to do.

 

I certainly don't believe explicit permission is always needed (micros on publicly owned land, for example, though I'm sure opinions vary widely). But my husband is extremely property rights conscious (much more so than me!!), and I'm happy if he's happy.

 

Also, as a cache hunter, I am just more personally comfortable with the idea that the cache I am looking for has permission (including of course policy that allows caching). I do enjoy looking for those caches just a little bit more. So it feels sort of good to provide that bonus as a hider. Since I'm very new at this, I don't know if I will feel the same way in six months.

Link to comment

You can be sure that the point you raise is one that is very much in my thoughts. There are currently 4 geocaches placed in Bedford, NH where I live. These caches have been placed by three different cachers. I have emailed each of the owners to find out if they have already "paved the way" by working with the town officials in placing the caches. I had been hoping to leverage any goodwill they had already established. However, it turns out that all were placed unbeknownst to the town. As such, I think you're absolutely right that it may jeopardize the existing caches to make the town officials aware of the fact that I would like to place an additional cache.

We must have been typing at the same time. So you already know the local situation, and you're not as lucky as me. I don't know what I would do in your case. Probably post a topic in the forums like you did.....

Link to comment

There is now a section in the New York Geocaching Organization (NYGO) Library for documentation concerning land management. The first section on educational information that explains geocaching is now posted (no, this first piece doesn't include the input from folks in the Clear Containers thread, that'll be in the next section). More will be coming along in the near future.

 

http://www.ny-geocaching.org/modules.php?n...ategories&cid=7

 

Feel free to use it as you like. It was written from a New York/NYGO perspective so feel free to swap out the NY-specific info for what's appropriate for your locale (e.g. list of geocaching organizations, etc).

 

Please do send me any improvements so they can be included!

Edited by Ferreter5
Link to comment

1) "If you hide your cache correctly, only cachers will find it." - Why do we all have that little paper that explains what you do if you find the cache "intentionally or not" in our caches? Also, wouldn't a cacher know what to do?

2) "If it isn't explicitly forbidden, you don't need permission." - I really have a problem w/ this statement. Reasonable efforts should be made. Park managers and lawmakers in general cannot possibly explicitly include every possible offense. There is many a thread on this forum alone about different GC.com policies etc. That should be lesson enough.

3) "If you get permission it could cause problems for others who already have caches in these areas." - Screw them! My name is supposed to be on that cache container (as they all should be!) and I will be the one in some sort of trouble if it is my cache mistaken for a bomb planted in the middle of the woods w/ no structure of any type around for miles, and the bomb squad comes out, and I haven't obtained permission, blah, blah, blah....

4) An incident like (3) could have very negative effects on the sport and lead to "explicit forbiddenness" for caching, then how would those other cache owners feel?

 

Just some idle thoughts ;)

Link to comment

Join the conversation

You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.
Note: Your post will require moderator approval before it will be visible.

Guest
Reply to this topic...

×   Pasted as rich text.   Paste as plain text instead

  Only 75 emoji are allowed.

×   Your link has been automatically embedded.   Display as a link instead

×   Your previous content has been restored.   Clear editor

×   You cannot paste images directly. Upload or insert images from URL.

Loading...
Followers 3
×
×
  • Create New...