Sms Multicache

[+jjn too]

Just got into GeoCaching in the last couple of weeks and have been thinking about interesting ways to do multi-cache puzzels.

 

Being a techno-geek it's going to be an over complicated techy solution

 

I'm thinking about using text messages and an auto-responder that will send back a new location & a new clue.

 

This could lead to some interesting varients such as time trials and caches that take a different route each time.

 

Has anyone done this sort of thing or think this would be a good idea?

 

The software's pretty easy to right and "we have the technology"

 

Regards,

 

Jonathan

[+Naefearjustbeer]

To attempt something like that I think it would be good to have a vague idea how far/hard the cache would be to complete. Ie do I need my car can I do it in 2 hours etc. Otherwise people might be wary about attempting it.

[+aisledog]

I think its a great idea and would be interested to know how it works. Please let us know.

[+Bill D (wwh)]

It sounds like a very good idea. You'd need to make sure that there was good reception for all networks in the cache area, and it would be helpful to state on the cache page that a mobile would be needed.

 

The only caches I know of that have used autoresponders have been the geocaching fox hunts - you can see one here. The idea is quite different to yours, though.

[+jjn too]

I'm glad people think it'd be a good idea I'm going to start gathering clues this weekend and I'll let you know when I've got something ready..

 

If you're interested the software is called Kannel. It's opensource and runs on a variety of architectures.

 

Once a server is up and running it would be possible to do a number of caches using the same setup, I'd be open to letting other people use this in different parts of the country....

 

Good point about checking the mobile signal strength, might be worth getting another network's mobile to check with!

[+MoonHerb]

Sounds like a fine idea, but . . . .

 

There are people out here (me included) who don't have mobile phones. Could there be a way of sirting the cache out so non-mobile-phone users would also have a fair chance of doing it ??

[westonwanderers]

Why not use Wap instead of SMS?

 

a) Its Free (for you), and usually only a cost of a local phone call for the person using it.. SMS costs approx 5 to 15p a text....

You host using a standard HTTP Server

c) Is there any phone out there not able to use Wap?

 

Cheers,

Tony.

[Lactodorum]

.....and.......!

 

There are some concerns about this type of cache amongst Groundspeak reviewers as some people (and I'm not for a second suggesting you ) have used "off-site" clues to circumvent the normal Geocaching guidelines.

 

I suggest you run the details past myself and/or Eckington BEFORE doing too much work and submitting the cache for review. We'll try and work out an acceptable way of making it work.

 

While I agree that not everyone has a mobile phone I wouldn't see this as a bar on this type of cache as long as it is made clear in the description that a phone is necessary.

 

Here's looking forward to working it out

 

Peter/Lactodorum

[+Chris n Maria]

c) Is there any phone out there not able to use Wap?

Me

[+MoonHerb]

While I agree that not everyone has a mobile phone I wouldn't see this as a bar on this type of cache as long as it is made clear in the description that a phone is necessary.

I wasn't saying that you shouldn't do it just because some people don't have 'phones. There are always going to be some that not everyone can do !

 

I guess, for this one I'll have to enlist a fellow GeoCacher with the correct technology !!

[+jjn too]

Why not use Wap instead of SMS?

 

c) Is there any phone out there not able to use Wap?

 

Cheers,

Tony.

I'd thought of wap - however I don't have any web space that I could do everything that I was thinking of behind this.

 

I'm going to back this off to a database of clues / responses / coordinates that will allow me to be very flexible about the design....

 

By using SMS I don't have to have a 'nailed up' internet connection to support it (no broadband )

 

Also, there are rather more phones our there that can do SMS than WAP

[+thirtyfootscrew]

I think it’s a great idea, I have some web space with a hosting company (so sadly not my own server) so I might have a go at creating some WAP pages and think of ideas that could use them. Some networks also support developers developing location-based service (though obviously these are no where near as accurate as GPS).

 

Out of interest, how are you interfacing with the network operators (or an SMS service provider)? The only ways I can think that wouldn’t require an ‘always on’ Internet connection are:

1. Using a managed service (£££££)

2. Periodic Dialup (difficult to implement)

3. Some kind of radio device (is this possible?)

 

One thing to be careful of is that sometimes there can be a significant lag-time between sending an SMS out and the user receiving it. This could be very frustrating if you’re in the field, send your answer and don’t receive a response for 5-10 mins. It’s rare but it does happen – it’d also play havoc with time trials.

 

Failing that, another telecoms solution would be for the cacher to place a call to a number (could be an 0800), you could get them to call one number at the start of a multi to receive the first clue (an answer-phone would do this) then call another number at the end of the multi to prove they’ve completed it. That way you know exactly how long they’ve been going. I work for a telecom company so sorry about the jargon.

[+jjn too]

The way I was planning on implementing it is with a standard mobile attached to a machine running the Kannel this will run a program based on the contents of the message. It'll also get some information from the message, the time it was sent (time trials) and the phone number it came from.

 

The latency on this is normally pretty good - no worse than normal sms round trip times, and it's quite cheap to set up - the cost of a 'reasonable' pay-as-you-go mobile, or if you're like me you just pick one of of the bin - Mobiles with 'shot' batteries are good for this as they don't need to use battery power ever!

 

I'm going to gather some clues this weekend and I'll set something up over easter probably....

 

It'll be in and around Saffron Walden N52 01' 34" E0 14' 42"

[Sparticus]

Saffron Waldon is a great place for placing a cache.

 

I do think SMS is better as most people with a mobile phone can use it. I personally think WAP cost too much to connect and download to mobiles.

 

I look forward to seeing the final approved cache. I used to manage the youth hostel there (It's haunted you know.) Maybe you'll use that in one of your clues??

Good luck in placing the cache.

[+DomHeknows]

Saffron Waldron? Might just have to arrange a work visit to a client there! See - more work :-(

[+jjn too]

Got some clues together now, and the software is written.

 

The way it works is as follows.

 

First you have to setup a user on the system, you do this by texting

 

GC REGISTER [your name]

 

to the number. This will register your phone number in the database.

Then you start the hunt by sending

 

GC START [waypoint name]

 

This will then reply with the first clue. There are two clue types 'normal' clues are either dates or names that you'll find at the coordinates. 'Reverse' clues are "go to this location, what are the coordinates"

 

When you've found the answer to a clue you send it back in this format:-

 

GC ANS [the answer]

 

If it's right you'll get the next clue, otherwise you get 2 more attempts before moving on. You can skip clues that you can't do by sending

 

GC SKIP

 

It'll be logged in the database that you skipped the clue and I may put up a website with the timings if there are enough takers.

 

There are currently 14 clues, including the final location.

 

I'm going to test it all out tomorrow to make sure everything works as I think it should and place the cache.

 

I'd like to hear any comments before I submit it finally.

[+Stuey]

Sounds very cool..... Quite nerdy, in a trendy kinda way .

 

Hope it all works okay!

[+jjn too]

It all worked under test, came to try it out today and it failed horribly took several hours for the SMS messages to get round the system....

 

That's not acceptable.....

 

I've put it on hold for a while, and put the cache up as a normal multi-cache...

[NatalieFord]

Is there any phone out there not able to use Wap?

Loads still, I am afraid. Not everyone can afford to get a new handset and still others cannot afford to enable WAP, etc, on their account. Can pay-as-you-go phones do WAP at all?

[+mongoose39uk]

It all worked under test, came to try it out today and it failed horribly took several hours for the SMS messages to get round the system....

 

That's not acceptable.....

 

I've put it on hold for a while, and put the cache up as a normal multi-cache...

The idea of this cache sounds good to me.

 

Might be worth sticking at it a bit longer.

 

Cheers

 

Tony

[+The Rouses]

Can pay-as-you-go phones do WAP at all?

Yes they can, but it's pricey!

[sidewallwolf]

Well, I just had a go at installing that on my linux server. It sort of, well, didn't work.

 

I tried loads of stuff, but smsbox still can't find kannel.conf. Oh, well it was just out of my own curiosity (and seeing if I could get a quicker response time than you on my 400Mhz P2 ). Well done for getting it working, mate!

 

Have you tried the kannel user guide at kannel.org? It looks extremely extensive.

 

Jamie

 

.....Well, I'll give up unless you can send me the kannel.conf file (with where to put it ).....if you're felling generous, sidewallwolf@hotmail.com will work...

Edited April 20, 2004 by sidewallwolf