Permission Not Granted...

[+Criminal]

My response to this would be:

 

Dear _______,

In response to your email of xx Feb 04, I am appalled at the level of disrespect this correspondence displays. As a taxpaying member of the community, I find your comments insulting and demeaning. The park owes its very existence to the public who supports and uses it. The best interest of the park should be balanced with the best interest of the public. Your message seems to cast doubt on your ability to effectively carry out your duties.

 

You state: ”We can't allow one party to do something in a park and then say no to someone else” You can, and do. You allow the unsupervised playing of baseball on park grounds, yet you do not stop this activity even though (using your logic) that it could lead to the throwing of rocks or hand grenades. Does your office encourage premarital and underage sexual relations on park grounds? Of course not, but you do allow anyone to come into the park, spread out a blanket and lie in the grass without checking their ID.

 

If you cannot provide me with a park regulation or city statute that specifically forbids geocaching, under what authority are you denying my request?

 

The benefits to the public and to the park itself by hosting a geocache are many. Geocachers have a motto, “Cache in, trash out”. This describes the way we remove any trash we encounter along the way to the cache area. Additionally, we can increase the user count of a park, which can only benefit the Parks Department when the budget is being decided.

 

To date, there are [insert number] geocaches in the city of XXXX, none of which has ever caused a problem. It provides many healthful benefits to the approximately [insert number] geocachers in our city, as well as bringing in visitors from outside our area which benefits the local businesses.

 

I ask that you reconsider your position on my request and look forward to your reply. If, after placing the cache, we discover it has become a problem, we will happily correct the issue or remove the cache.

 

Sincerely,

 

YOU

 

cc: Everyone all the way to the mayor.

 

Bear in mind, this is just my first draft.

Edited February 18, 2004 by Criminal

[+woodsters]

Do what YOU feel is the next right step. You already took the first step in which you thought was important by asking permission. If you feel the need to place a cache in that park, then by all means push the issue further as others have stated. Or as some have also stated, put the cache there anyways. Just be ready to accept whatever may come your way if they find out. It may be more hassle than it's worth for just a game. If you are determined to go through so much for it, make sure it's a good cache.

 

My response would of probably been to send them another email arguing their validity and reasoning and then just forget about it. It's not worth it if you have to go through so much.

[ghOzt]

Bear in mind, this is just my first draft.

I think it is supposed to read 'beer in mind...' (Sorry, I had to.)

 

I like the last half of the letter. Honestly though, I think the last three paragraphs would be much more effective (and more likely to be read and taken seriously) if they weren't preceded by the aggresiveness of the first three paragraphs. It starts off sounding very confrontational, in my opinion, and any correspondence between geocachers and decision makers should certainly be friendly and professional.

[4x4luv]

I like his whole letter I pay taxes why cant we use the Public parks, I'm Also a law abbiding person, I would not just put a Cache there until I got the o.k., But if didn't get one, I sure would want to know Why.

[+KaiserKlan]

Thank you all for your responses. Here is an update.

Got a call back from the Park Director this AM. We had a pleasant conversation. I gave him some facts, figures and web site addresses (Thanks everyone for the assistance).

I think he was shocked to find out that geocaching is a world-wide sport, there are over 94,000 caches world-wide and there are 94 caches within 10 miles of his zip code (i didn't say it, but probably in "his" parks).

I pointed out to him that geocaching is not going away and it would seem he needs a policy. I twice offered our assistance in helping him create a policy and pointed him to www.geocachingpolicy.info to view the policy of many of the county park systems and the BLM policy. I acknowledged that MN has prohibited geocaching in MN state parks (it states it right on top of the page I was referring him to) , but remarked that I didn't understand this and that MN is the only state I am aware of that does.

Long story a bit shorter, he kind of invited us to attend the next Park and Natural Resources Commission meeting to present our case and then said it would go from there to the City Council. I asked him to send me info regarding the meeting. We decided to wait to see what he sends in his email and the tone of the email before we decide what to do next.

I think maybe we should take on the State of MN. We are thinking about having an event cache breakfast in the near future and will think about starting a petition with those who show up. Maybe we can't fight City Hall, but we can sure negotiate for improvement.

Thanks again for all your suggestions.

dEB Kaiser - KaiserKlan

[+KaiserKlan]

 

Got a call back from the Burnsville Park Director a few minutes ago. He said since we talked last week, they looked at the web sites and did some research and found that there are several caches in the parks. He has decided to grant permission for them.

 

He did ask that we post that there is no bush-wacking required to get to the cache. At one point he even suggested putting City of B pins in the cache, but then decided that might get to be too spendy.

 

I offered to help with setting a policy if they intended to, but he said that since there are so many caches in the area, they will just let it be and see if there are problems that develop.

 

Thanks again, everyone, for all the great suggestions. I think I was able to take something of value from every one of them.

 

Happy Caching !!!

dEB

[+CacheCreatures]

I love it! Great work. Way to keep you head about you, and attack the problem from within the system it was created by. IMHO you have probably saved caching in your area by demonstrating the best qualities our community has to offer. Major congrats to you dEB!!

[+briansnat]

I offered to help with setting a policy if they intended to, but he said that since there are so many caches in the area, they will just let it be and see if there are problems that develop.

 

Wow a bureaucrat with some common sense. Can you bottle this guy and send him to the rest of the country?

Edited February 25, 2004 by briansnat

[+GrizzlyJohn]

The point to make is that there have been caches there all along. And it would seem they did not cause any problems because they did not know about them. It will be interesting to see going forward if they become a problem because they now know they are out there.

[+KaiserKlan]

The point to make is that there have been caches there all along. .. It will be interesting to see going forward if they become a problem because they now know they are out there.

I thought that was too obvious to him to point it out.

Yes, it will be disappointing if there is a "problem" all of a sudden. I am going to keep a positive attitude about it and deal with it if it comes. He seemed genuinely interested in making it easier for us, not harder.

[+welch]

... He has decided to grant permission for them.

 

...I offered to help with setting a policy if they intended to, but he said that since there are so many caches in the area, they will just let it be and see if there are problems that develop.

 

Thats good to hear , thanks for reporting back.

[+GrizzlyJohn]

Got a call back from the Burnsville Park Director a few minutes ago. He said since we talked last week, they looked at the web sites and did some research and found that there are several caches in the parks. He has decided to grant permission for them.

Just so I am clear is this person and the person that sent you the note you quoted in your first post one and the same?

[+KaiserKlan]

The first reply came from an underling, the permission was actully given by the Park Director.

[ju66l3r]

Good work to you on sticking to it and getting to someone knowledgable enough to set a very beneficial policy at this point. You may want to contact the people at http://www.geocachingpolicy.info (I think that's the right address) and they can update your area to list the fact that full permission (minus bushwhacking) has been given to your parks!

[+seneca]

The first reply came from an underling, the permission was actully given by the Park Director.

Now that you seem to have a positive thing going with these park guys, I hope that the underling doesn't read this thread (and in particular what I had to say about him) !

[ju66l3r]

It's okay, Seneca...I think I have you covered with the last thing I wrote in that post in this thread.

 

Remember, you can always refer back to the second quote in my signature...you just need to include "anger" along with "depression".

[+GEO*Trailblazer 1]

Pesistence pays.

Great Work you are a diplomat Geocacher now,and glad to see the approvals in your area.

Until next time,

May all your trails be,

 

Happy.....................................................................Geotrails

Edited February 26, 2004 by GEO*Trailblazer 1

[+Logscaler and Red]

Criminal.

 

Your one "sneaky, underhanded, better to ask for forgivness then permission, no one told not to, not illegal until you get caught, coloring outside the lines" type person.

 

I think I like you!

 

I have had to ask a couple of cachers to remove their caches because the Oregon State Parks asked me to have the caches removed. Only after they found out about the caches not because anyone asked first or because of complaints from non-cachers. Those caches where in "sensitive" areas and I was given a valid acceptable explanation of what the problem was or could be.

 

But they, the State Parks people, also told me where they would have no problems with caches and even invited more caches to several other parks and undeveloped parks grounds.

 

Like Nike says - "Just do it!"

 

logscaler.