"members only" caches rant

[ffdave]

I'm probably setting myself up for some criticism (sp?) here, but...

MEMBERS ONLY GEOCACHES SUCK!!!

As someone very new to the pastime of geocaching I was quite distressed today to note that the only new geocache in my area was a members only cache - doesn't this go against the very idea of treasure hunting for everyone ?(it even says in the sample welcome letter on the site that everyone is welcome -even those who find a cache by mistake). To me, the Groundspeak membership's pitch that says it is to give more dedicated members acess to better caches really rings as one of the worst aspects of the world around up - the pervasivness of people trying to seperate themselves from others.

Don't get me wrong, I think that the idea of VOLUNTARILY paying fees to help purchase equip. etc. to help improve the site is great, but members only caches really twists the fun out of the concept. I have news for those who create this type of cache - " you can't hang out with us because... " is just as lame now as it was back in the fourth grade. Following (to an extreme) the same reasoning, we could make caches based on race, religeous preference, etc. How would it look if someone created a white only cache?

And finally, don't people who create such caches feel like horrendeous hippocrits (sp) when they visit caches that aren't members only? I know i would. I mean, after creating an exclusive site, what kind of person could feel good going to a site someone else had, asking nothing in return for money and time spent, placed for ALL, not some, to enjoy? I sure couldn't bring myself to do it.

Anyways, when I hide caches in the future, even those hippocrites will be welcome - because thats what I personally feel that geocaching is about.

HAppy hunting.

-ffdave

[+Hawk-eye]

Not again .... If you feel this bad about it ... do a search ... it's been ranted upon before ... then you can read what everyone has said before and let's just get off the topic ... everyone has their opinion ... the plain truth is ... there aren't that many ... MOC's and most remain MOC's only for a short period of time before becoming public ... if you want more caches in your area ... spend the time to place some ...

 

And ... although our opinions differ ... welcome to the group!

 

----------------------------------------------------------------

Co-founder of the "NC/VA GEO-HOG ASSOCIATION"

... when you absolutely have to find it first!

[+Hawk-eye]

Not again .... If you feel this bad about it ... do a search ... it's been ranted upon before ... then you can read what everyone has said before and let's just get off the topic ... everyone has their opinion ... the plain truth is ... there aren't that many ... MOC's and most remain MOC's only for a short period of time before becoming public ... if you want more caches in your area ... spend the time to place some ...

 

And ... although our opinions differ ... welcome to the group!

 

----------------------------------------------------------------

Co-founder of the "NC/VA GEO-HOG ASSOCIATION"

... when you absolutely have to find it first!

[Geo Quest]

Sorry you feel that way. I've noticed the exact opposite where I live. There are hardly any members only caches here. Makes me wonder what I paid my money for.

 

"There's no need to be afraid of strange noises in the night. Anything that intends you harm will stalk you silently."

[+infosponge]

It's better to light a candle than to curse the darkness, as the old saying goes. If the only cache in your area is a MO, make one of your own. You'll be suprised what might happen.

When I got started in September there were hardly an caches in my end of the county. I started placing some, that attracted some new cachers, and now there are many more in my area and I've met some great people as a result of all this.

MO caches area really a very minor part of the membership to most people...the membership is really helping to support the web site and development of new features and games.

[DisQuoi]

quote:

---

And finally, don't people who create such caches feel like horrendeous hippocrits (sp) when they visit caches that aren't members only? I know i would. I mean, after creating an exclusive site, what kind of person could feel good going to a site someone else had, asking nothing in return for money and time spent, placed for ALL, not some, to enjoy? I sure couldn't bring myself to do it.

---

Come back after you've created one. One reason the concept was introduced was that people were tired of spending alot of time and money to create a nice cache and they wanted to see who was viewing and hunting the cache. It protects them from plundering and vandalism. But having never done this, you might me ignorant of the level of effort required to create a good cache.

[pdumas]

I did a fast look at a 100 mile area of your last geocache and I found 90 caches listed and there's is only 1 MO. This is more than my all of Arkansas.

[pdumas]

I did a fast look at a 100 mile area of your last geocache and I found 90 caches listed and there's is only 1 MO. This is more than my all of Arkansas.

[+Alan2]

NO comment! My bones are still aching from the last round.

 

Alan

[+clatmandu]

So what's the big deal? You have 90 other caches to look for. By the time you find those, I'm sure there will be some other new ones to look for.

[BassoonPilot]

So anybody else who wants to moan, whine or complain about MOCs just stop your belly-aching. It's not going to change anything.

 

That about says it all. But: Just because a cache is "Member's Only," why do you assume it is necessarily "better?"

 

Of the 770 or so caches within 100 miles of my house, I haven't noticed one MOC among them. I'm going to suggest to tneigel that he make his next rash of caches MOCs.

[BassoonPilot]

So anybody else who wants to moan, whine or complain about MOCs just stop your belly-aching. It's not going to change anything.

 

That about says it all. But: Just because a cache is "Member's Only," why do you assume it is necessarily "better?"

 

Of the 770 or so caches within 100 miles of my house, I haven't noticed one MOC among them. I'm going to suggest to tneigel that he make his next rash of caches MOCs.

[k2dave]

I have yet to run accross a members only cache. Can someone post a link to one (what we non-members or black sheep of geocaching get).

do you have enought info to hunt it anyway or are you totally locked out of all info?

 

-------> Did you ever do any trail maintainence? - if so you will know that all but the most worn trails need continuous maintenance to prevent mother nature from reclaiming it. herd paths are quickly reclaimed - k2dave to a troll

[BassoonPilot]

quote:

---

Originally posted by k2dave:

I have yet to run accross a members only cache. ... do you have enought info to hunt it anyway or are you totally locked out of all info?

---

 

You're "locked out," but taking a cue from one of your caches, K2Dave, you could triangulate the location from nearby caches, but when you found the cache, you wouldn't be able to log it online. But you could brag about it here in the forums.

[BassoonPilot]

quote:

---

Originally posted by k2dave:

I have yet to run accross a members only cache. ... do you have enought info to hunt it anyway or are you totally locked out of all info?

---

 

You're "locked out," but taking a cue from one of your caches, K2Dave, you could triangulate the location from nearby caches, but when you found the cache, you wouldn't be able to log it online. But you could brag about it here in the forums.

[ffdave]

See I knew I would get some interesting replies...

First off let me thank those who welcome me to the group, and let me apologize for beating a subject that has obviously been aired before, but I really do feel that many new geocachers will feel as I do.

That being said - I do know how much time and effort goes into making a good cache - I've been working on my first since I discovered geocaching (long before I actually logged a find) and still haven't gotten it to a point where I would like to announce it. I COULD throw a bunch of junk in a tupperware and put it somewhere pretty - there are lots of neat places up here - but I won't because I have high standards and IDEALS. I want to leave something special for EVERYONE TO FIND. That is still no excuse to exclude anybody from going to it, especially based on wether they pay money. Personally I plan on investing an extra 30 a year in making stuff for caches....

For those who say I have plenty of caches around me (90 w/in 100 miles of my last find) I have 3 things to say: 1) I only ride my bike to find caches - that limits me to about a 30 mile radius.

2) A large majority of the extant caches around me are virtual caches, and while I may visit them, I dont log them as finds. SO i have allready visited nearly all in my area.

3) The 100 mile radius is very deceptive up here - THERE ARE NO ROADS (well, there really are 2, BUT THATS IT!!!) To get to a cache 100 miles way in any easterly direction I would have to travel several hundred hours, and I just dont have that kind of time. Maybe when i retire.....40 years from now.

Anyways thankyou all for listening to me rant. Happy hunting and I'll shut up now...for a while

-ffdave

[ffdave]

I meant several hundred MILES, not hours. Brain slower than fingers sometimes...

[+WaldenRun]

Hmmmm, Regarding the Pilot's comment about locating MO caches via triangulation; Wouldn't that only require BIangulation?

 

"Why worry when you can obsess?"

[BassoonPilot]

quote:

---

Originally posted by WaldenRun:

Hmmmm, Regarding the Pilot's comment about locating MO caches via triangulation; Wouldn't that only require BIangulation?

 

"Why worry when you can obsess?"

---

 

Well, I suppose so, but the resulting search area would probably be too large, because the distances between caches listed on the search pages aren't that precise. The higher the number of local caches you are able to use to pinpoint the MOC, the greater the accuracy should be. Why, I suppose if there were five nearby caches, you could quintangulate.

 

[This message was edited by BassoonPilot on May 16, 2002 at 11:14 AM.]

[BassoonPilot]

quote:

---

Originally posted by WaldenRun:

Hmmmm, Regarding the Pilot's comment about locating MO caches via triangulation; Wouldn't that only require BIangulation?

 

"Why worry when you can obsess?"

---

 

Well, I suppose so, but the resulting search area would probably be too large, because the distances between caches listed on the search pages aren't that precise. The higher the number of local caches you are able to use to pinpoint the MOC, the greater the accuracy should be. Why, I suppose if there were five nearby caches, you could quintangulate.

 

[This message was edited by BassoonPilot on May 16, 2002 at 11:14 AM.]

[BassoonPilot]

quote:

---

Originally posted by ffdave:

See I knew I would get some interesting replies... I do know how much time and effort goes into making a good cache - I've been working on my first since I discovered geocaching (long before I actually logged a find) and still haven't gotten it to a point where I would like to announce it. I COULD throw a bunch of junk in a tupperware and put it somewhere pretty - there are lots of neat places up here - but I won't because I have high standards and IDEALS. I want to leave something special for EVERYONE TO FIND.

---

 

It's not clear whether "special" describes the location or the contents of the cache. Just keep in mind that if you meant contents, there is a high likelyhood the contents won't remain "special" past the initial rush of visitors.

 

quote:

---

Originally posted by ffdave:

 

That is still no excuse to exclude anybody from going to it, especially based on wether they pay money.

---

 

That is for the cache owner to decide; not for somebody who might be interested in searching for the cache. Just as you are under no obligation to log all those virtual caches you claim to have already found, a subscribing member is under no obligation to allow unlimited access to his/her "special" (aka MOC) cache. That's the way it is; end of discussion.

[DisQuoi]

quote:

---

Originally posted by WaldenRun:

Hmmmm, Regarding the Pilot's comment about locating MO caches via triangulation; Wouldn't that only require BIangulation?

 

"Why worry when you can obsess?"

---

Finding members only caches by triangualtion was discussed in this thread. You could biangulate but then you'd have two locations to search. The two locations would be the intesection of the two circles defined by the non-MO caches and the distances reported to the MO cache.

[+newoldstock]

I look at it like this:

 

You don't purchase something when you decide to pay the membership fee; you SUPPORT something. Your "thank you" gift is a small handful of MOCs created by other SUPPORTERS. Watch PBS for free if you like, but don't cry inequity when cookbooks and videos are sent only to those folk who have donated money to the station.

 

*Barefoot*

[Atilla the Pun]

quote:

---

Originally posted by ffdave:

For those who say I have plenty of caches around me (90 w/in 100 miles of my last find) I have 3 things to say:

 

1) I only ride my bike to find caches - that limits me to about a 30 mile radius.

---

 

Have you considered a compromise? Drive to within 30 mi. of the cache, then bike the rest of the way?

 

quote:

---

2) A large majority of the extant caches around me are virtual caches, and while I may visit them, I dont log them as finds. So i have allready visited nearly all in my area.

---

 

Why not log them? You found them. Or did I just open the "what's a real cache?" can of worms again?

 

quote:

---

3) The 100 mile radius is very deceptive up here - THERE ARE NO ROADS (well, there really are 2, BUT THATS IT!!!) To get to a cache 100 miles way in any easterly direction I would have to travel several hundred miles, and I just dont have that kind of time. Maybe when i retire.....40 years from now.

---

 

See my response to 1).

 

AtP

[+Alan2]

quote:

---

Originally posted by ffdave:...3) The 100 mile radius is very deceptive up here - THERE ARE NO ROADS (well, there really are 2, BUT THATS IT!!!) To get to a cache 100 miles way in any easterly direction I would have to travel several hundred hours, and I just dont have that kind of time....-ffdave

---

 

I would've been helpful if you post where you live instead of that "redwood" address. Where's that?

 

Alan

[Syn]

there will be a day when I become a member only and the majority of my caches will be switched to members only and most of my new placements will be for members only. I find that people that are members are serious about the game and dont trade junk for the good stuff.

 

Also I like the idea of knowing who has viewed the web page and not having it listed out there so anyone can see it and not having anything to trace back to them if they should decide to plunder it.

[+Alan2]

quote:

---

Originally posted by Waynepdx:

there will be a day when I become a member only and the majority of my caches will be switched to members only and most of my new placements will be for members only. I find that people that are members are serious about the game and dont trade junk for the good stuff....

---

 

Like you, I don't pay for the "extra" services. But I consider myself serious and don't trade junk. Do you?

 

Alan

[+Lazyboy & Mitey Mite]

I have put out only one members only cache. I kept it members only for two weeks so my member buddies could get a couple of things in there I left for them. Now it's an open cache.

 

Member caches help to support our hobby.

 

Oh and there is zero reason to not log virtuals. I don't get that at all. The person who put the virtual out deserves to know that someone found it. Getting those e-mails from geocaching.com is part of the fun.

 

But welcome to your new adventure. There are all sorts of people who do this and seldom are we all in agreement.

 

Have fun.

 

Never Squat With Yer Spurs On

[Syn]

no allen I dont place junk but there is such a high turnover rate with new people that the junk will always be coming.

 

I remember another thread with the stats on the turnover rates of new people that come in and then quit after one or two finds.

 

Those people trade junk and there will always be a neverending supply of them.

 

Yes there are plenty of people that are active in the game over a long period of time that are not members that dont trade junk, just the same as there are plenty of people that are not members that play the game over a long period of time that are not members that do trade junk.

 

But by far the majority of geocachers are one or two hit wonders that trade junk.

 

Recruitements into geocaching are like health clubs. The majority of new recruits go for a week or two and then drop out of sight.

[+The GeoGadgets Team]

Dave lives south of me, near the Eureka area. If I'm not mistaken, by his logs he is a student at Humboldt State. That might be one reason he uses a bike to visit caches - he doesn't have a car at all. Happens a lot with college students.

 

I wrote to Dave in email when I first saw his post, instead of responding in the forum. He never responded to me in email. Maybe he thinks I am too pushy...

 

He is right about the terrain, though I am amazed that he would attempt the area of THIS MOC on a bike in the first place. It is far up Hwy. 299 which is busy with logging trucks. Log trucks are infamous for eating bicyclists. I used to be a volunteer emergency responder here, and have peeled too many of them off of the asphalt, so I know. The area, though, is gorgeous and a great place to hide a cache. If Dave needs a ride I'm sure we could arrange something, but even then, he couldn't log it.

 

I am surprised at Dave's vitriol, however. There are many traditional caches left within 30 miles of him that he has not yet done. I know, because I've done them all and they are on my watch list. Most of them are pretty simple and he's actually "ridden" near some of those to get to ones he DID find.

 

Give it time, Dave. The hiders of the MOC will probably realize that not too many people will head up that direction to do their cache and make it traditional non-MOC after a month or two. It is the only MOC within a hundred miles of us, so we see it as novel.

 

Though initially I was against MOC's, I will be placing one here shortly. I took great pains and spent a lot of money over time putting it together, and it is an experiment. After two or three months, depending on how popular (or unpopular) it is, I will change it to a non-MOC.

 

I hope you can overlook this one cache, Dave and move on and look for the many other caches that are available to you.

----------

Lori aka: RedwoodRed

KF6VFI

"I don't get lost, I investigate alternative destinations."

GeoGadgets Team Website

Comics, Video Games and Movie Fansite

 

It's not whether or not you pick your nose that matters, but where you put the booger...

[+The GeoGadgets Team]

Dave lives south of me, near the Eureka area. If I'm not mistaken, by his logs he is a student at Humboldt State. That might be one reason he uses a bike to visit caches - he doesn't have a car at all. Happens a lot with college students.

 

I wrote to Dave in email when I first saw his post, instead of responding in the forum. He never responded to me in email. Maybe he thinks I am too pushy...

 

He is right about the terrain, though I am amazed that he would attempt the area of THIS MOC on a bike in the first place. It is far up Hwy. 299 which is busy with logging trucks. Log trucks are infamous for eating bicyclists. I used to be a volunteer emergency responder here, and have peeled too many of them off of the asphalt, so I know. The area, though, is gorgeous and a great place to hide a cache. If Dave needs a ride I'm sure we could arrange something, but even then, he couldn't log it.

 

I am surprised at Dave's vitriol, however. There are many traditional caches left within 30 miles of him that he has not yet done. I know, because I've done them all and they are on my watch list. Most of them are pretty simple and he's actually "ridden" near some of those to get to ones he DID find.

 

Give it time, Dave. The hiders of the MOC will probably realize that not too many people will head up that direction to do their cache and make it traditional non-MOC after a month or two. It is the only MOC within a hundred miles of us, so we see it as novel.

 

Though initially I was against MOC's, I will be placing one here shortly. I took great pains and spent a lot of money over time putting it together, and it is an experiment. After two or three months, depending on how popular (or unpopular) it is, I will change it to a non-MOC.

 

I hope you can overlook this one cache, Dave and move on and look for the many other caches that are available to you.

----------

Lori aka: RedwoodRed

KF6VFI

"I don't get lost, I investigate alternative destinations."

GeoGadgets Team Website

Comics, Video Games and Movie Fansite

 

It's not whether or not you pick your nose that matters, but where you put the booger...

[+RAD Dad]

I have had my first travel bug stolen, and an entire cache stolen. I still haven't placed any of my caches as members only caches, but I have given it serious consideration, and will likely place a MOC in the future. There are many members in Oregon and Washington where I cache, but few MOC's. It really isn't a problem, besides, there is nothing wrong with having something just for members, as a perk for supporting the site.

 

Anyone who wants to save up their nickles and dimes and chip in $30 a year for a membership can be a member, so there isn't anything exclussive about membership, and membership does have it's benefits. Even without them though, I would have joined up, I really like this site, and the game.

 

ummmm....not sure what to say here....so ummm, well errrr, uhhhh, well I guess that's it.

[BassoonPilot]

quote:

---

Originally posted by The GeoGadgets Team:

...

Though initially I was against MOC's, I will be placing one here shortly. I took great pains and spent a lot of money over time putting it together, and it is an experiment. After two or three months, depending on how popular (or unpopular) it is, I will change it to a non-MOC.

---

 

Will you extend its time as a MOC if it proves to be a popular cache?

 

quote:

---

Originally posted by The GeoGadgets Team:

 

I hope you can overlook this one cache, Dave and move on and look for the many other caches that are available to you.

---

 

What??? That almost reads like an indictment against the person who placed the cache. There is nothing that needs to be "overlooked;" the comment implies that the cache owner is guilty of some transgression. Rather, Dave just needs to accept the simple fact that not all caches are, or will be, available to him.

[+joedohn]

Having made all but two of my caches MOC's back in early March, I thought I might share my perceptions on how it's worked out.

 

On the plus side,

a) I've become more quality conscience. There's something about declaring a cache to be 'members only' that inspires you to make a little extra effort. Along side of this, I've archived a few of my older caches that seemed boring to me. Better quality caches have resulted in more thoughtful and enjoyable log entries.

I really like being able to see who's viewed my cache pages. It's also given me some insight into which caches are more interesting based on the number and frequency of visitors to the web page.

c) I hope getting access to MOC's has enticed people to become members. I know for certain in one case it has.

d) None of my MOC's have been plundered yet.

 

On the minus side,

a) I'm sure my caches have received fewer visitors since becoming MOC's. I haven't surveyed my caches to discover how much of a drop there's been. I have enough caches placed that usually somebody visits every few days at least. However, I think a person who's hidden only a few caches would notice the drop of visitors significantly.

Travel bugs are a problem. Initially, two caches I kept public because they had other people's T.B.'s in them. Since then cachers have placed travel bugs in some of my MOC's. I haven't made them public as a result but would if asked by the T.B. originator.

c) When I made some of my older caches MOC's I locked out previous visitors from viewing their log entries (if they weren't members now). This was a mistake on my part. In one instance I was asked to make a MOC public again so the previous visitor could see their log entry. I apologized to them and did so.

 

All in all, I think MOC's are a good thing. I like the idea of geocaching.com offering services that can financially support the site. 'Barefoot and Twinkle' earlier made what I thought was the perfect analogy to PBS membership benefits.

 

But, I've also learned to be relaxed about the status of my caches. I will make any of my MOC's public (if asked) for just about any decent reason.

[+Byron & Anne]

quote:

---

Originally posted by joedohn:

Having made all but All in all, I think MOC's are a good thing. I like the idea of geocaching.com offering services that can financially support the site. 'Barefoot and Twinkle' earlier made what I thought was the perfect analogy to PBS membership benefits.

 

---

 

Ahhhhh. When did PBS start selectively charging to view any of their programs or broadcast "Members Only Programs"?????

 

Using the same PBS analogy. Would PBS be able to contine if they started "pay to view" specific shows? My guess they'd go away.

 

A recent dot com failure was a free site that started charging. They went under within a year. Whether they would have gone under sooner or not if they had not started charging, I don't know. I do know charging didn't prevent them from failure. (Photopoint in case you're curious).

 

I belive that turning geocaching.com into a pay to play site will kill the site. Creating the Members Only Cache feature is just that, attempting to turn it into a pay for play site. Which would be short term gains for Groundspeak and we would loose this site. That part is not a real concern. Somebody will jump in. There's other sites already cropping up that can take the place of this site if it dies.

 

Now the question. This site, that we all love so much, how can we help keep it alive? First eliminate MOCs altogether. Leave the orginal geocaching site a free, open to all comers site. Much better PR that way. As you can see from the orginator of this thread, MOCs are not good PR. Will not bring in new members.

 

We can get new members by coming up with other featurers to suggest to the groundpeak staff that would encourage people to join. The latest one "Bench Mark Hunting" is a great example of a feature for members. I would like to see a PDA friendly section that could be members only.

 

Most products gain headway with bells and whistles. They don't gain by changing the basic function. Get people interested with the basic model then you can sell the bells and whistles. If you can't get people interesting in the basic you can't sell the bells and whistles. Oh, and the basic model has to be more appealing than basic model "x".(marketing 101).

 

Now that I've got that out of my system, let's get back to caching.

 

Byron

[+KD7MXI]

there desighned as a way for jeremy among others to make money off of us.

 

welcome to MY world!!!

------------------------------------------------------------

http://groups.yahoo.com/group/CacheAcrossAmerica

http://www.geocaching.com/seek/nearest_cache.asp?u=KD7MXI

http://www.cachunuts.com

[+KD7MXI]

there desighned as a way for jeremy among others to make money off of us.

 

welcome to MY world!!!

------------------------------------------------------------

http://groups.yahoo.com/group/CacheAcrossAmerica

http://www.geocaching.com/seek/nearest_cache.asp?u=KD7MXI

http://www.cachunuts.com

[BassoonPilot]

quote:

---

Originally posted by james f weisbeck kd7mxi terra utah:

I WILL NEVER PAY TO PLAY - NEATHER SHOULD YOU

 

there desighned as a way for jeremy among others to make money off of us.

 

welcome to MY world!!!

---

 

No, thank you. Quality is something worth paying for.

[BassoonPilot]

quote:

---

Originally posted by james f weisbeck kd7mxi terra utah:

I WILL NEVER PAY TO PLAY - NEATHER SHOULD YOU

 

there desighned as a way for jeremy among others to make money off of us.

 

welcome to MY world!!!

---

 

No, thank you. Quality is something worth paying for.

[+Hawk-eye]

Geesh ... how long are the "chicken littles" of the world going to continue to proclaim that "the sky is falling" due to MOC's?

 

The fact is ... MOC's are here ... although very few ... the sport is still growing ... and unfortunately the "whine" is still flowing. IT IS STILL FREE to play, and if there are one or two caches you can't find due to being MOC's ... live with it. Continue to play the game and enjoy it. I hope the rest of your life is that easy ... living for free off the sweat of others. There is a certain level of society that feels comfortable going through life doing just that. If living with others that choose not to mooch ... as a life style ... bothers you ... maybe you can find a free therapist on line!

 

----------------------------------------------------------------

Co-founder of the "NC/VA GEO-HOG ASSOCIATION"

... when you absolutely have to find it first!

[+Hawk-eye]

Geesh ... how long are the "chicken littles" of the world going to continue to proclaim that "the sky is falling" due to MOC's?

 

The fact is ... MOC's are here ... although very few ... the sport is still growing ... and unfortunately the "whine" is still flowing. IT IS STILL FREE to play, and if there are one or two caches you can't find due to being MOC's ... live with it. Continue to play the game and enjoy it. I hope the rest of your life is that easy ... living for free off the sweat of others. There is a certain level of society that feels comfortable going through life doing just that. If living with others that choose not to mooch ... as a life style ... bothers you ... maybe you can find a free therapist on line!

 

----------------------------------------------------------------

Co-founder of the "NC/VA GEO-HOG ASSOCIATION"

... when you absolutely have to find it first!

[+Runaround]

I just did a little research. I currently live in Ohio and just pulled up the listing of every cache in the state. Out of 284 caches in Ohio, there are currently ZERO MOC's.

 

Those darn MOC's are just ruining the sport completely.

 

On the flip side, there are an awful lot of public caches in very poor condition and just loaded with useless junk. Maybe we need a few more MOC's.

___________

 

Now where did I park my car???????

[+ClayJar]

quote:

---

Originally posted by james f weisbeck kd7mxi terra utah:

there desighned as a way for jeremy among others to make money off of us.

---

Actually, that is indeed half of it. The other half is that people asked for it. (Yes, cachers did! The vile thugs!)

 

You know what? I've met Jeremy and Elias, and I'm more than happy for them to make a few pennies off me. I mean, hey, I've spent more than $30 on *GAS* in one cache hunt.

 

Welcome to the real world.

[+ClayJar]

quote:

---

Originally posted by james f weisbeck kd7mxi terra utah:

there desighned as a way for jeremy among others to make money off of us.

---

Actually, that is indeed half of it. The other half is that people asked for it. (Yes, cachers did! The vile thugs!)

 

You know what? I've met Jeremy and Elias, and I'm more than happy for them to make a few pennies off me. I mean, hey, I've spent more than $30 on *GAS* in one cache hunt.

 

Welcome to the real world.

[+Byron & Anne]

I'll simplify my point.

 

1. I am a dues paying member.

2. I really want Jeremy and groudspeak to make a decent profit. That's the only way we can keep this thing going.

3. I think that MOCs are a negative, no matter how few there are. They send the wrong message to potential members.

4. There are other and better ways to intice people to become members. We are a diverse and creative community and can come up with pretty good ideas to help intice new members and improve groundspeaks income.

 

Byron

[Zuckerruebensirup]

quote:

---

Originally posted by Byron & Anne:

 

Ahhhhh. When did PBS start selectively charging to view any of their programs or broadcast "Members Only Programs"?????

 

Using the same PBS analogy. Would PBS be able to contine if they started "pay to view" specific shows? My guess they'd go away.

---

My satellite program offers "Pay per View" shows, and (judging from how long they've been around), it appears very successful.

 

quote:

---

A recent dot com failure was a free site that started charging. They went under within a year. Whether they would have gone under sooner or not if they had not started charging, I don't know. I do know charging didn't prevent them from failure.

---

Maybe they waited too long before deciding to charge, and were already too far into the red to recover.

 

quote:

---

I belive that turning geocaching.com into a pay to play site will kill the site. Creating the Members Only Cache feature is just that, attempting to turn it into a pay for play site.

---

I disagree. Allowing MOC caches doesn't stop ANYONE from placing as many open-to-all caches that they want to.

 

quote:

---

Now that I've got that out of my system, let's get back to caching.

---

 

Yes, let's!

 

-------

"I may be slow, but at least I'm sweet!"

[Zuckerruebensirup]

quote:

---

Originally posted by Byron & Anne:

 

Ahhhhh. When did PBS start selectively charging to view any of their programs or broadcast "Members Only Programs"?????

 

Using the same PBS analogy. Would PBS be able to contine if they started "pay to view" specific shows? My guess they'd go away.

---

My satellite program offers "Pay per View" shows, and (judging from how long they've been around), it appears very successful.

 

quote:

---

A recent dot com failure was a free site that started charging. They went under within a year. Whether they would have gone under sooner or not if they had not started charging, I don't know. I do know charging didn't prevent them from failure.

---

Maybe they waited too long before deciding to charge, and were already too far into the red to recover.

 

quote:

---

I belive that turning geocaching.com into a pay to play site will kill the site. Creating the Members Only Cache feature is just that, attempting to turn it into a pay for play site.

---

I disagree. Allowing MOC caches doesn't stop ANYONE from placing as many open-to-all caches that they want to.

 

quote:

---

Now that I've got that out of my system, let's get back to caching.

---

 

Yes, let's!

 

-------

"I may be slow, but at least I'm sweet!"

[Jeremy]

quote:

---

Originally posted by james f weisbeck kd7mxi terra utah:

there desighned as a way for jeremy among others to make money off of us.

 

welcome to MY world!!!

---

 

If you get a keyboard with a Caps Lock that doesn't stick, I'd probably give you a subscription for free.

 

1. Member only caches was a geocacher requested tool. If you have a problem with it take it up with the geocachers that create member only caches. I doubt they would exist at all if the option wasn't available, so just ignore them. I don't make my caches members only. If I did you could complain to me.

 

2. Member only caches were not designed to increase charter memberships. It was just a way to keep some caches from being plundered by subhumanoids who enjoy targeting geocachers and plundering their caches.

 

3. My favorite argument: Voluntary payments? What a joke. Seriously, before I went to charter memberships I had a paypal link at the bottom of every page asking for support. I received a few, but not enough to pay for any of the upkeep.

 

Charter members helped support the new database server that non-charter members like yourself are cheerfully using right now to log and find geocaches.

 

It ain't cheap folks.

 

Jeremy Irish

Groundspeak - The Language of Location

[Jeremy]

quote:

---

Originally posted by james f weisbeck kd7mxi terra utah:

there desighned as a way for jeremy among others to make money off of us.

 

welcome to MY world!!!

---

 

If you get a keyboard with a Caps Lock that doesn't stick, I'd probably give you a subscription for free.

 

1. Member only caches was a geocacher requested tool. If you have a problem with it take it up with the geocachers that create member only caches. I doubt they would exist at all if the option wasn't available, so just ignore them. I don't make my caches members only. If I did you could complain to me.

 

2. Member only caches were not designed to increase charter memberships. It was just a way to keep some caches from being plundered by subhumanoids who enjoy targeting geocachers and plundering their caches.

 

3. My favorite argument: Voluntary payments? What a joke. Seriously, before I went to charter memberships I had a paypal link at the bottom of every page asking for support. I received a few, but not enough to pay for any of the upkeep.

 

Charter members helped support the new database server that non-charter members like yourself are cheerfully using right now to log and find geocaches.

 

It ain't cheap folks.

 

Jeremy Irish

Groundspeak - The Language of Location

[+KD7MXI]

i type with one finger THEREFORE USING THE CAPS A LOT OR SHIFTING TAKE TOO LONG

 

welcome to MY world!!!

------------------------------------------------------------

http://groups.yahoo.com/group/CacheAcrossAmerica

http://www.geocaching.com/seek/nearest_cache.asp?u=KD7MXI

http://www.cachunuts.com