A Novel Cache Location - ruling please

[Skipper of the Otters]

Ok, folks just asking for some input here before I do all the leg work to put this cache out. One item of note, to go diving here in Texas you are going to have to pay to get in anywhere I have ever been, or heard in this state. I don't know how many people would be able to get to this cache because of it's location (~50' down) But I thought I would ask the group.

 

Skipper of the Otters

 

 

I would probably say that yes, it is commercial. Paying park fees is money that goes directly into the coffers to support the park. A private scuba location is not a government-owned facility so it fits in a slightly different category. However, it’s a neat idea and something you could ask the community at large to endorse. If they endorse it I’d be happy to let it through.

 

 

Jeremy

 

 

-----Original Message-----

From: Norfolk, Ian X. [mailto:NorfolkIX@c-b.com]

Sent: Friday, August 09, 2002 11:58 AM

To: contact@Groundspeak.com

Subject: [GEN-020809.30020] New Cache Location

 

 

 

I'm a scuba diver and would like to place a cache underwater... The problem being that the Cache would be located in a private Scuba Park and a fee of $20 is charged for entry to go diving for a day, $10 to just enter as an observer.

 

Would this be considered a 'Commercial Cache'? In the description I would added that a fee is charged to enter the park per person and what that fee is so you know ahead of time.

 

I don't own the park or get any compensation out of this, I just happen to be a diver with a good location to go diving. Would this be different than a national park that charges entry fees?

 

Skipper of the Otters

[+sbell111]

As long as you clearly explain the cost of going after this one one the cache page, I say go for it.

 

This is no different than the many theme park caches.

[blahginger]

I think it is fine. (and pretty cool). The audience for this cache is certianly limited and I would think that since scuba diving is a pretty expensive proposition to begin with, that the cachers that could even qualify to search for this are used to paying fees just to go diving anyway.

 

____________________________

The true traveler is he who goes on foot, and even then, he sits down a lot of the time.

- Colette

[+Olar]

I see no reason why this shouldn't be approved. If I were into Scuba Diving I would love to try a cache like this.

Good Luck, Olar

 

[+gnbrotz]

I say no problem with one small caveat: Since it is in a private park, I think express permission from the owners prior to placement should be sought so seekers don't get hassled. If they don't mind, I sure don't

 

Greg

N 39° 54.705'

W 77° 33.137'

[+gnbrotz]

I say no problem with one small caveat: Since it is in a private park, I think express permission from the owners prior to placement should be sought so seekers don't get hassled. If they don't mind, I sure don't

 

Greg

N 39° 54.705'

W 77° 33.137'

[+Lazyboy & Mitey Mite]

I'm sure this isn't a problem. Not a true commercial cache. But you've received good advice. Get permission. Or, just do an underwater virtual at the park. I'm sure there is something to read or see down there that would verify the diver actually visiting the park.

 

I love the idea.

 

Never Squat With Yer Spurs On

[+Borgt]

I see no problem with it as long as the fee is clearly stated in the description.

[+Mudfrog]

Sounds like a real neat cache. Get Jeremy's OK, then get the permission from the private park's owner, post the fees in the description, and lets cache! Shoot, i think there may even be 1 or 2 other caches near Ft Worth that we could hit while up that way,,,,

[+Mudfrog]

Sounds like a real neat cache. Get Jeremy's OK, then get the permission from the private park's owner, post the fees in the description, and lets cache! Shoot, i think there may even be 1 or 2 other caches near Ft Worth that we could hit while up that way,,,,

[GeoStars]

I just became dive certified last year. I'd love to do a diving cache! This one's a little too far south right now but maybe someday...

 

GeoMedic - team leader of GeoStars

[+Renegade Knight]

A private park? Glad I don't live in Texas. I was just whining about fee's in another thread. For this cache rate it a 5 for difficulty or terrain (Specialized Equipment) as appropriate. State it requires SCUBA gear so that people who don't SCUBA can avoid it, or take SCUBA lessons to get it.

 

In reality this cache is fine. You are not promoting a specific business so much as a cool place for a cache that happens to be a private park. Evidently they can charge the 20 bucks because the diving is worth it.

 

Now how exactly do you manage to get a private park? I thought all waters were waters of the united states unless it was like a pond?

[+Navdog]

Other than a great idea, can someone explain why this is not a commercial cache? I hope we don't start experiencing commercial creep. Is there a choice of Dive shops to choose from? Is this any different than placing a cache at the local Putt-Putt that requires a fee?

 

The adventures of Navdog, Justdog, and Otterpup

[Yomikibagami]

A scuba diving cache is fine, I wish that I could go out to the Bahama's cause there is a cache there I'd like to do

http://www.geocaching.com/seek/cache_details.asp?ID=19350

[river ranger]

quote:

---

Now how exactly do you manage to get a private park? I thought all waters were waters of the united states unless it was like a pond?

---

 

probably a couple ways... could have been a gravel pit in past (these often flood naturally) and sold to citizen after mining was finished. these are common dive sites. could be a natural spring on private property, owner has water rights to it. usually the gov't only controlling interest is in the water rights and water rights if its a navigable body of water i.e river/moving water. i'm sure there's alot more to it than that also. this is just basic stuff.

look at dive sites in Fla and Tex., its pretty common. would i pay to cache hunt there? yeah i would (SCUBA cert since '95). i'd dive anyway, and looking for a cache sure beats the usual dive attractions on these holes. now, just have to make a reason to travel to Texas.... hmmm...

 

having to do what the voices in my wifes head tell me to do...

[blahginger]

quote:

---

Other than a great idea, can someone explain why this is not a commercial cache? I hope we don't start experiencing commercial creep. Is there a choice of Dive shops to choose from? Is this any different than placing a cache at the local Putt-Putt that requires a fee?

---

 

I always feel that a commercial cache is one that is setup explicity to bring in business. The cache is only a gimmic set up for the purposes of making money rather than simply caching. I think it is difficult to judge the commercial-ness of "gray area" caches like this one. In essence you have to judge if the spirit of the cache is for geocaching or for the business. If I owned a Diving Park I would definitely put a cache underwater, but it would be because I combined two of my interests. (Financial not being one of them....In fact I would fill the cache with $5 refund chips for geocachers only)

 

Does the Otter Skipper own this diving Park? probably not. Is the diving park going to make extra money due to this cache? maybe. Will 'geocacher' show up anytime soon on the diving parks demographic pie charts? I doubt it.

 

I have to agree that this is technically exactly like setting a cache in a mini-golf course, and by letting this go geo.com is opening things up for everyone with a previously rejected "honest" cache with a hint commercial-ness to come forth with "Not Fair!". (This cache is a little more distinguished in that it requires more effort to set up than just kicking a tupperware container under a bush.)

 

As I said before, I think this cache should be allowed, but I commend the geo-staff for putting up resistance and I suggest that should this (or any) cache turn out to be a gimmic that the cachers will let Jeremy and friends know and it can be removed.

[Skipper of the Otters]

I talked to the park owners last weekend, and they don't have an issue with the cache being located in their park. So Far, I don't see anybody saying they don't like it.

 

My next problem is doing all the leg work to set this up so the rest of the divers will leave it alone.

 

Skipper of the Otters

[+Brandis]

I am curious about this. I have seen a couple of caches that require SCUBA to reach. I think this is really cool and adds a new layer to the adventure, but I am not sure logistically how it works.

 

I see the GPS bringing me to the edge of the water, or above the location in a boat. After that am I just in search everywhere mode, or is there a type of GPS that can work under water that I am not aware of?

 

--

umm..Where am I?

[+Brandis]

I am curious about this. I have seen a couple of caches that require SCUBA to reach. I think this is really cool and adds a new layer to the adventure, but I am not sure logistically how it works.

 

I see the GPS bringing me to the edge of the water, or above the location in a boat. After that am I just in search everywhere mode, or is there a type of GPS that can work under water that I am not aware of?

 

--

umm..Where am I?