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Just a quick note to let you all know that USA Geocoins (USAgeocoins.com) are fully endorsed by Groundspeak, Inc. They are trackable on geocaching.com just like travel bugs.

 

Happy Geocaching!

 

Sincerely,

 

Rothstafari

Groundspeak

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I've ordered 15 so far (but only placed two). My orders were placed in groups of five each, several weeks apart. I've been amazed by how close the numbers are together. My highest number so far has been 225 (10225).

 

I got to tell you. These things are COOL!

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quote:
I have not seen how these coins are being tracked or logged. Is that coming to GeoCaching?

 

It's the exact same system as the bugs, just a different range of numbers. If you get a coin you can plug the serial number in the same field you would a travel bug. It IS a travel bug, after all.

 

I've only registerd 2 of my 15 coins so far and only one has been replaced in a cache but here's it's page:

 

http://www.geocaching.com/track/track_detail.asp?ID=33916

 

You can see it's treated just like any other bug.

 

BTW, my intention is to use them as first finder rewards. I'm working on a geocaching policy with the local park board and as soon as that's done I'll be releasing another half dozen or so coins. The first two I placed had people hitting the caches at night to grab the coins.

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quote:
If you get a coin you can plug the serial number in the same field you would a travel bug. It IS a travel bug, after all.

 

Maybe in the way it can be tracked but unlike Travel Bugs, the coins can be kept if the finder wishes.

 

I ordered 10, but didn't even know about them until I saw them mentioned here on the forums. It would be great if there was a link on the home page, doncha think?

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quote:
Originally posted by RedShoesGirl:

 

Maybe in the way it can be tracked but unlike Travel Bugs, the coins can be kept if the finder wishes.


 

Untrue. If the hider gave such permission, then that's fine, but please don't spread a rumor that the finder has the right of keeping them.

 

George

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I bought a bunch of these and they are pretty nice. So far, I have not had the courage to leave one in a cache by itself, but I have drilled holes in a couple and used them like travel bug tags (I am sure Rothstafari is thrilled with me drilling holes in the coins, but they are mine and I can do what I want no matter how stupid it seems). I figure that having them look more like regular travel bugs will help keep them from being stolen. Here is an example of one of my coins. I will eventually place some by themselves, but I will make sure to include good info sheets.

 

RM

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quote:
quote:

------------------------------------------------------------------------

Originally posted by RedShoesGirl:

Maybe in the way it can be tracked but unlike Travel Bugs, the coins can be kept if the finder wishes.

------------------------------------------------------------------------

Untrue. If the hider gave such permission, then that's fine, but please don't spread a rumor that the finder has the right of keeping them.


 

I don't think this is untrue at all. I don't believe there's any rule or standard that says a geocoin HAS to keep moving. In fact, I would say that the finder most definitely has a "right" to keep them.

 

Personally, I'm using them as first finder rewards. Of the two I've placed so far I have stated something to the effect of "move them or keep, it's your choice. Just enjoy them." I've got about a half dozen more caches planned and each will contain a coin with a similar mission (i.e.: enjoy).

 

Of those two, one is still in the possession of the first finder but he says he's going to leave it overseas during an upcoming trip. The other one has been subsequently replaced and picked up. That person says he will leave it on an upcoming trip out of state.

 

It's just my opinion but I think it's optimistic to think people are going to want to turn loose of these -- at least until they become more common.

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If you state they are welcome to keep the ones *YOU* place, that's fine, but please don't try to tell people in general it is OK to keep them. It screws it up for the rest of us who want them to travel.

 

You might as well say anyone can keep any travel bug they find. Sure, the finder has control, but it defeats the whole purpose of why it was set up.

 

George

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quote:

You might as well say anyone can keep any travel bug they find. Sure, the finder has control, but it defeats the whole purpose of why it was set up.


 

I will say this: Finders should honor the wishes of the person who placed the coin. If their stated goal is that the coin should travel the finder should honor that . . . eventually.

 

Still, these things are pretty new so I recognize people are going to want to hold onto them for a while. That's fine with me.

 

I see that on most of your posted coins you state that you want them to travel. That's cool, too.

 

I was a little taken back by one of your coins though. It seems it has traveled a whole bunch but always in the hands of one cacher . . . Oh, that's you, isn't it? . . . Is THAT the purpose of why these were set up?

 

[This message was edited by Matt1344 on March 20, 2003 at 03:54 PM.]

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By default, TravelBugs are *NOT* intended for people to keep if they wish. What about this do you not understand?

 

As for personal travel bugs, to which you made your snide remark about mine, I suggest you read: http://opentopic.Groundspeak.com/0/OpenTopic?a=tpc&s=1750973553&f=2660963783&m=6760963783 where Jeremy suggests this as a legitimate use.

 

Sheesh! If *YOU* want to give them away, that's fine, but don't go around telling people it's OK to keep them in general. That's just ignorant.

 

I see you've only found *ONE* travelbug...sounds like you have *TONS* of experience in how they work.

 

George

 

[This message was edited by nincehelser on March 20, 2003 at 08:03 PM.]

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If a person says their bug/coin should travel then it should travel. When you pick up a bug you are pretty much agreeing to play by the other fellow's rules. That's why I don't bother with them.

 

As you pointed out, I've only picked up one bug. That bug was a key to a local cache. You couldn't find the cache without at least getting the numbers off the key (and the cache description said to take the key with you). Otherwise, I pass them up.

 

And while I think the coins are slightly different I'm not going to argue the point with you any further. I have and will place my coins with no expectations because I'm using them as first finder rewards. But I can understand how someone with high hopes that their coin travel would be disappointed if it didn't.

 

Take care . . .

 

[This message was edited by Matt1344 on March 20, 2003 at 09:01 PM.]

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Hey Eric,

I noticed that you are temp out of stock on your coins... and you say you're going to get some in by March 31. If I ordered one now when do you thing I'd get it? Or at least when would you be able to ship it?

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quote:
Originally posted by nincehelser:

quote:
Originally posted by RedShoesGirl:

 

Maybe in the way it can be tracked but unlike Travel Bugs, the coins can be kept if the finder wishes.


 

Untrue. If the hider gave such permission, then that's fine, but please don't spread a rumor that the finder has the right of keeping them.

 

George


 

Since no where on the geocoin site does it say the coins first mission is to travel it is up to the hider to determine if there is a choice of traveling or keeping. So, it is NOT a rumour, but simply it is up to the hider to determine how the coin is to be treated. If the hider doesn't say, then all is fair game.

 

How about being a little nicer.

 

[This message was edited by RedShoesGirl on March 22, 2003 at 09:39 AM.]

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THEY ARE TRAVEL BUGS, PEOPLE!

 

THEY ARE NOT INTENDED TO BE KEPT BY THE FINDER!

 

From the usageocoins.com home page: Track your coins at Groundspeak.com,. just like Travel Bugs.

 

What would be the point of tracking them if people kept them?

 

I defy you to show me *WHERE* on the usageocoins site where it says they're "fair game" if the hider doesn't say how it is to be treated. The fact is, it says nothing even remotely close to that. You just made it up.

 

Look at the sticker you get with the geocoin...it has the Travel Bug logo and has the Travel Bug activation information. It says "track this coin" right on the coin.

 

Look at the default goal: Current GOAL: There is no particular goal for this item. Feel free to place it in a geocache or pass it on to a friend and see where it goes!.

 

Nowhere does it say "keep it if you like"!

 

George

 

[This message was edited by nincehelser on March 22, 2003 at 01:45 AM.]

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quote:
Originally posted by CWL:

Hey Eric,

I noticed that you are temp out of stock on your coins... and you say you're going to get some in by March 31. If I ordered one now when do you thing I'd get it? Or at least when would you be able to ship it?


 

Barring any unforeseen delays the coins will start shipping the day after I receive them which is expected to be approx. March 31st.

 

The coins ship out of Ohio so depending on where you live you should receive your order in approx. 3-7 days from shipping.

 

Get your trackable USA geocoins at http://www.usageocoins.com

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For the Oregon geocoins we are setting up a tracking site and will have a sticker to put on the bag a coin is in to show the website. But....everyone fully expects that most people that find them will keep them and they think it will still be neat to see who picked theirs up on the tracking site. It's not very realistic to think somebody will find a coin with a geocaching logo on it, trade for it out of the cache, then go home and look it up, then see it was meant as a travel bug (eventhough you can buy things that only are TBs) and then replace it in another cache for somebody else to find and keep. You can place them and HOPE they will move, but don't expect it and get upset when they don't.

 

smiles_63.gif ---Real men cache in shorts.

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quote:
Originally posted by nincehelser:

THEY ARE TRAVEL BUGS, PEOPLE!

 

THEY ARE NOT INTENDED TO BE KEPT BY THE FINDER!

 

From the usageocoins.com home page: _Track your coins at Groundspeak.com,. just like Travel Bugs. _

 

What would be the point of tracking them if people kept them?


 

I agree with nincehelser's point that these coins are travel bugs and should be treated that way unless the coin owner states otherwise. I think I know why there are some people out there that think the coins can be kept. The Canadian Geocoins, which were the first geocoins to be sold (I know cachers had personal geocoins before the Canadian geocoins came out, but I think the Canadian geocoins were the first to be sold), are generally considered to be fair game for either keeping or moving on. Here is a quote from the Canadian Geocoin website:

 

"These are beautifully crafted and professionally minted pieces. Whether kept as a memento of a memorable cache hunt or left as an irresistible cache trade item for a fellow cacher, a CA geocoin is the perfect treasure."

 

RM

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For the USA GeoCoins I have released, I state on their bug page that they can be kept or moved along. I have also tried to start a convention that the coin be named after the cache it was released into.

 

-WR

 

"Besides physical caches, we have VIRTUal and VIRTUeless."

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How about if YOU try being a little smarter you dolt and get your shorts out of a wad will ya!

 

What part of "NO PARTICULAR GOAL" do you have a problem understanding? What part of "pass it along to a friend" do you not understand? One has to keep the darn thing if one is to pass it along to a friend and NOT put it in another geocache.

 

Travel Bugs, on the other hand, are supposed to be placed in caches and not passed on to friends.

 

I look at these coins just like I do the several Canadian coins I have placed. One can pass it on or keep it. Logging it in someone's hands. It does NOT say on the page that it HAS to be a Travel Bug but that it CAN be tracked just like a Travel Bug.

 

It is up to the hider to determine how it is to be treated. If I am paying for the coin then I can decide how I want it to be treated. If you don't like that concept then do it your way, but don't try and tell me what to do with the coins I buy.

 

quote:
Originally posted by nincehelser:

THEY ARE TRAVEL BUGS, PEOPLE!

 

THEY ARE NOT INTENDED TO BE KEPT BY THE FINDER!

 

From the usageocoins.com home page: _Track your coins at Groundspeak.com,. just like Travel Bugs. _

 

What would be the point of tracking them if people kept them?

 

I defy you to show me *WHERE* on the usageocoins site where it says they're "fair game" if the hider doesn't say how it is to be treated. The fact is, it says nothing even remotely close to that. You just made it up.

 

Look at the sticker you get with the geocoin...it has the Travel Bug logo and has the Travel Bug activation information. It says "track this coin" right on the coin.

 

Look at the default goal: _Current GOAL: There is no particular goal for this item. Feel free to place it in a geocache or pass it on to a friend and see where it goes!. _

 

Nowhere does it say "keep it if you like"!

 

George

 

[This message was edited by nincehelser on March 22, 2003 at 01:45 AM.]


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You stated the finder has the choice to keep them. That is *WRONG*! That's not their intended use! Nowhere is your claim stated or supported.

 

No particular goal means just that...they don't have a particular TRAVEL destination! By your "logic" you can just as well drop them in the garbage. Ain't that fun!

 

Pass it along to a friend *MEANS IT SHOULD MOVE*, not be kept!

 

As far as travel bugs not being allowed to be passed to friends (another of your incorrect proclamatiotions)...READ THE !@$#@ INSTRUCTIONS AND GUIDLINES POSTED. Sheesh! More ignorance! Jeremy even suggested when he brought them out that they might be placed in library books!

 

Quit grasping at straws and drop it. You're wrong on the point that the finder has the right to keep them, and had no right to proclaim such.

 

YOU ARE THE PERSON WHO CLAIMS THEY CAN BE KEPT BY THE FINDER!!! Now you say I can't tell you what to do with your bugs...correct! Now please reciprocate and don't tell people they can just keep *ANYONES* Travel bug or coin! That's the root of this issue!

 

If you want to give them away, fine...do so, but don't mislead people that they have the right to keep them and screw up the game for the rest of us. Travel Bugs have a risky enough life as it is.

 

God, some people are totally clueless. You're wrong. Get over it. You're as bad as the guy who said:

When you pick up a bug you are pretty much agreeing to play by the other fellow's rules. That's why I don't bother with them.

 

Wow. Doesn't that speak volumes. He'll only play under his rules...nice.

 

I notice you don't go out and find travel bugs just like that guy. Or maybe you do and are keeping them. Who are you to define the rules and say that people can keep them? Speak for only your own bugs...don't speak for everyone elses. We'll go by the rules and guidelines posted, thank you very much.

 

George

 

quote:
Originally posted by RedShoesGirl:

How about if YOU try being a little smarter you dolt and get your shorts out of a wad will ya!

 

What part of "NO PARTICULAR GOAL" do you have a problem understanding? What part of "pass it along to a friend" do you not understand? One has to keep the darn thing if one is to pass it along to a friend and NOT put it in another geocache.

 

Travel Bugs, on the other hand, are supposed to be placed in caches and not passed on to friends.

 

I look at these coins just like I do the several Canadian coins I have placed. One can pass it on or keep it. Logging it in someone's hands. It does NOT say on the page that it HAS to be a Travel Bug but that it CAN be tracked just like a Travel Bug.

 

It is up to the hider to determine how it is to be treated. If I am paying for the coin then I can decide how I want it to be treated. If you don't like that concept then do it your way, but don't try and tell me what to do with the coins I buy.

 

quote:
Originally posted by nincehelser:

THEY ARE TRAVEL BUGS, PEOPLE!

 

THEY ARE NOT INTENDED TO BE KEPT BY THE FINDER!

 

From the usageocoins.com home page: _Track your coins at Groundspeak.com,. just like Travel Bugs. _

 

What would be the point of tracking them if people kept them?

 

I defy you to show me *WHERE* on the usageocoins site where it says they're "fair game" if the hider doesn't say how it is to be treated. The fact is, it says nothing even remotely close to that. You just made it up.

 

Look at the sticker you get with the geocoin...it has the Travel Bug logo and has the Travel Bug activation information. It says "track this coin" right on the coin.

 

Look at the default goal: _Current GOAL: There is no particular goal for this item. Feel free to place it in a geocache or pass it on to a friend and see where it goes!. _

 

Nowhere does it say "keep it if you like"!

 

George

 

[This message was edited by nincehelser on March 22, 2003 at 01:45 AM.]



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quote:
Originally posted by Rothstafari:

These are meant to be kept or circulated, it is your choice.


 

Please allow me to clarify. Ideally, if the original owner wants the coin to be kept in circulation, they would include a note to that effect on the coin page. If there is such a note or other clear indication, in all fairness, the original owner's wishes should be honored and the coin should be kept in circulation.

 

Absent any indication of what the owner wants, the finder should feel free to decide.

 

As a side note, the apparent hostility generated by this thread is a bit surprising. We are discussing Geocaching, aren't we? icon_smile.gif

 

Happy Geocaching!

 

Rothstafari

Groundspeak

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The default for travel bugs, if you look at the way they get set up, is to travel. This is the way it should be. If someone wants to change the mission so the finder can keep them, that is fine, and their choice.

 

What I don't agree with are the people who say the finder is entitled to keep them in general. The only way that holds is if someone goes to the TB page and changes the mission, and it applies only to *THAT* TB.

 

Proclaiming that all TBs can be kept by the finder as general course is just plain wrong, inconsiderate, and messes up the game for everyone else.

 

People should speak for their own bugs, not for others.

 

Hostility? Yes! I invested some $$$ in these things and I don't like the idea of other people saying that it is OK for the finders to keep them.

 

George

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Originally posted by nincehelser:

You stated the finder has the choice to keep them. That is *WRONG*! That's not their intended use! Nowhere is your claim stated or supported.

 

>>no, what I said was that the HIDER had the right to determine if the COIN should travel or not. - - -"It is up to the hider to determine how it is to be treated. If I am paying for the coin then I can decide how I want it to be treated. If you don't like that concept then do it your way, but don't try and tell me what to do with the coins I buy." ---<<<<

 

No particular goal means just that...they don't have a particular TRAVEL destination! By your "logic" you can just as well drop them in the garbage. Ain't that fun!

 

>>>Hey, if the hider says dump them in the garbage, then by all means dump them. Fun it ain't but what the hey, that is what the hider wants. By your "logic" all coins MUST travel. If that was the case then the site page would say that.<<

 

YOU ARE THE PERSON WHO CLAIMS THEY CAN BE KEPT BY THE FINDER!!!

 

>>>>ONLY IF THE HIDER SAYS SO. SHEESH, HOW MANY TIMES DO I HAVE TO WRITE THAT<<<<

 

Now please reciprocate and don't tell people they can just keep *ANYONES* Travel bug or coin! That's the root of this issue!

 

You are SO obtuse and are trying to put words in my mouth. No where did I say that one could keep a Travel Bug. I simply said that if the hider said one could keep them they could, and if the hider didn't say which he/she preferred then it was up to the finder. No where on the site does it say anything different. Because the words "can be used as a travel bug" does not mean MUST.

...

_When you pick up a bug you are pretty much agreeing to play by the other fellow's rules. That's why I don't bother with them._

 

Wow. Doesn't that speak volumes. He'll only play under his rules...nice.

 

>>>Nah, he just doesn't want to play the game picking up bugs. That has nothing to do with being nice or not.<<<

 

I notice you don't go out and find travel bugs just like that guy. Or maybe you do and are keeping them. Who are you to define the rules and say that people can keep them? Speak for only your own bugs...don't speak for everyone elses. We'll go by the rules and guidelines posted, thank you very much.

 

>>>I don't want to pick up bugs, but I did I would not keep them, since how they are to be treated is CLEARLY DEFINED. But I have spent considerable $$ to release three with a forth ready to go soon. Until the new geocoin"rules" are clearly defined with absolute guidelines, it is still up to the hider.

 

You and I are not going to agree so shall we just agree to disagree. Unless you want to let me keep pushing your buttons.<<<

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This is what you said...go back and take a look. You said the *FINDER* can keep them if they wish, not the that the hider has any choice in the matter.

 

quote:
Maybe in the way it can be tracked but unlike Travel Bugs, the coins can be kept if the finder wishes.

 

Any further discussion with you is pointless. You'll apparently just keep trying to change your story.

 

George

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Geocoin TBs are *NOT* to be kept at the finder's whim. Finders can keep the coin *IF* they are given permission by the owner. The default is for them to move, and that is how they are set up on the initial TB page.

 

I don't see why that is so hard to understand.

 

George

 

[This message was edited by nincehelser on March 23, 2003 at 01:41 PM.]

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As I've said several times, if the "owner" of the coins says it should travel then the upright thing to do is to let it travel but beyond that, I think it's pretty clear that the consensus of those who have expressed an opinion here is that it's acceptable to keep coins when the owner does not specify.

 

Yes, I understand that you feel differently but, honestly, I give more weight to Rothstafari, the "Groundspeak Lackey" who says:

 

quote:
Absent any indication of what the owner wants, the finder should feel free to decide.

 

Do you know better than someone attached to Groundspeak?

 

In any case I do think two things are true:

 

1.) People are going do what they want to do

2.) There is no reason for being nasty in these exchanges. I'm afraid this exchange has been rather nasty at times and I think that's a shame.

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If the person doesn't change the mission, it says:

 

Feel free to place it in a geocache or pass it on to a friend and see where it goes!

 

This isn't absence of intent. It's clear it wants to move. If you want it to be OK for the person to keep it, then change the mission to say so.

 

No one should be able to set a rule that says it's ok to steal any TB of a particular type, especially ones that aren't theirs.

 

Now if someone doesn't bother to activate a TB, then all bets are off. Of course, that's kind of a silly thing to do, unless you also give the finder the activation code.

 

Hey, and if you don't like the nastiness, go back and read this from the beginning...it was you who started making the snide remarks about my personal TB. What goes around comes around.

 

George

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I asked if keeping a coin and logging everywhere you went was in keeping with the purpose of the coins. You offered a link that seemed to suggest it was OK. That's cool by me. You learn something every day, right? Is there some reason that you are uncomfortable with this being known? It seems OK by what you showed me . . .

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Nice of you to offer but it's really not necessary. I took no offense. I do think there were some other things said or implied in this discourse that were regretable though. Like somebody asked, "are we talking about geocaching?"

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They are very nice looking coins. when I loged my find, I also loged having picked up the coin. I said in my note " I would like to keep it" but the owner said up front he wishes it to travel. I will do what he wants. I may have to buy my own coins to get one for myself.

 

ScurvyDog Lakewood,CA

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I just started geocaching. On my second find there was a geocoin inside the cache. The person before me left the coin. There were no directions on what to do with the coin.

 

Sorry if this is a stupid question but, what do I do with the coin? When I tried logging in the number for Travel Bugs there was no record of the number.

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quote:
Originally posted by jmq:

I just started geocaching. On my second find there was a geocoin inside the cache. The person before me left the coin. There were no directions on what to do with the coin.

 

Sorry if this is a stupid question but, what do I do with the coin? When I tried logging in the number for Travel Bugs there was no record of the number.


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Well, it could be that the owner never registered the coin. You might check with the person who last had it and see if they know anything.

 

Another possibility is that it could be a different kind of geocoin. Some are tracked elsewhere, but usually have some instructions included saying this.

 

George

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