More on permission...

[+Sissy-n-CR]

Say you've contacted the appropriate people that handle the land on which you are wanting to place a cache. The answer is a CYA type of thing because what you get is "we can't give you official permission to place the cache, but what we don't know about..." In other words, "We're gonna cover our legal asses by saying we don't know anything about it, but we're not saying you can't do it. ~wink~wink~"

 

So it's kind of a limbo. Should I just shut my mouth and go ahead? Try to convince them to give official permission or have an official stand? Couldn't that backfire?

 

So how I handle things where the "official" stand is they "don't know nuttin'?" How should I convey this on the cache page, or should I?

 

Thanks for your input.

 

CR

 

-- Insert pithy aphorism here --

[+Brokenwing]

In my opinion, you've done all that anyone could ask of you. There are numerous reasons why land managers may do this, the biggest is as you mentioned, the "liability" aspect. If this is their position, I WOULD NOT put anything about it on the cache page as this might be enough for them to turn around and ask you to remove the cache. The reasoning is that from a liability perspective, the "wink", "wink" answer would probably be no different than an explicit approval if there was documentation of the response. You would be documenting that on the page if you mentioned the conversation, so in my opinion, leave it off.

 

Best of luck,

 

Scott / Brokenwing

http://www.cordianet.com/geocaching

 

***********************************

 

There's a thin line between geocaching and walking in circles like an idiot.

[+briansnat]

This is the way it works in many parks. The local land manager may not have the authority to grant permission and they know that going up the ladder would open a huge can of worms. In other cases, they may have the authority, but don't want to stick their necks out and give official sanction to the sport. So they just look the other way.

 

I'm sure that someone in a position of authority is aware of many of my caches. Most land agencies have received some sort of bulletins or other info about the practice of Geocaching and are aware of it. In the case of my caches, no one has removed them, or contacted me about them.

 

Go ahead and place it and I wouldn't mention a thing about the permission status on the page. That's all you need is for the ranger to look at the page and see that their official position is that "They know noooothing, nooooothing"

 

"You can't make a man by standing a sheep on its hind legs, but by standing a flock of sheep in that position, you can make a crowd of men" -Max Beerbohm

[+Desert_Warrior]

Several months ago, I approached the Texas Parks and Wildlife (State Parks System) regeonal manager, and introduced him to Geocaching. I used several print-outs, and even had an example cache along for him to look at. He did carry the request higher, but recommended approval along with it. This was a big step. Franklin Mountain State Park is over 37 square miles big, and most of it is within the city limits of El Paso. (Now you know why I carry so much gear when I hike in there! It IS a desert!)

 

The relationship has grown. I was asked to set up a Geocaching display and talk to visitors during the "open house" weekend for the parks. See This EVENT CACHE for more details. The park rangers have gone out of their way to help suggest good cache hiding places too. My next one, "The Secret of the Aztec Treasure", was made possible because of their suggestions. Also, TPWD is now offically supporting Geocaching state-wide, if what I hear is true. I cannot promise you the same success, but for me and El Paso, it was worth the effort.

 

Good luck, hope it works for you.

 

Mike. KD9KC.

El Paso, Texas.

 

Citizens of this land may own guns. Not to threaten their neighbors, but to ensure themselves of liberty and freedom.

 

They are not assault weapons anymore... they are HOMELAND DEFENSE WEAPONS!

[+Ttepee]

I've considered such a reply in not so many (if any) words as a go ahead. My main concern is that people actually working in the park realize it is there. I believe they have a right to know what people are doing out there rather then send up red flags that it must be illegal the way we are sneaking around. YOu gotta admit we are a strange looking bunch at times...not your average hiker or leaf peeper. This way when it hits the concern of the administration level the rangers might have a friendly attitude towards geocaching and help support our activity. IMHO you have done your part in letting them know that it will be out there.

 

In the case of my situation with NYS parks the rangers did not actually come up with the words, I would have appreciated that aknowledgment. Instead they played dumb about geocaching at all and they asked me to put it in writing and submit it. They lost the first request...noone knew anything it about it... then the second request got lost in the regional directors office. I never actually intended on demanding anything in writing. I just wanted an aknowlegement from the rangers but none of them would go out on a limb enough to aknowledge knowing anything about it from visit to visit. If they want to ignore it it's fine by me... just don't turn around in the end and say that permission was never sought. When I started this there were no caches hidden in this region of NYS parks...that was in April since then quite a few have been hidden and I've got local cachers concerend that my attempts may backfire on us and that I should let it drop. Which I had planned on anyway and haven't contacted them since July when I visited the park in question and they said they didn't know anything about my request but they knew there were caches in the park, that was when I finally interpreted the unspoken words.

 

So we're in Limbo here in NY too... join the club and have fun caching

[+welch]

Since you've asked them and they dont want to give you an answer either way just place it. you could spend months trying to force the issue, but it could backfire.

 

if they do ever deside to NOT allow geocaching im sure theyll either tell you to move it or just pick it up themselves. But that could be months or years from now.

 

[+Planet]

I have been working on my town's park and recreation department this month to get approval for a cache. They have a commission meeting coming up where she will bring up the subject. Two days ago I dropped off the cache page of the monumental "Legendary Cache in Trash out" clean up that was done in Winnsboro, SC (see: http://opentopic.Groundspeak.com/0/OpenTopic?a=tpc&s=1750973553&f=3000917383&m=9720998635 ) along with the geocachers forum about this clean up to show her our attitude. It was the "Cache in Trash out" motto that really had her attention from the beginning so I thought this might clinch it for me. I am hoping so and will let you know the results.

 

A few minutes later: I just spoke with Eileen at Park and Rec and they met on Tuesday. They have tabled their decision until the next meeting at the end of November to make sure it's ok with the town's attorney. There reasoning: They want to make sure that wierd people from the internet aren't coming into town. I spoke with her at more length about the website and asked her to please look into it. I will be dropping off a copy of the disclaimer to her. I guess the old ladies in the Town Hall think there are only predators on the "Internet".

Cache you later,

Planet

 

[This message was edited by Planet on October 31, 2002 at 08:22 AM.]

 

[This message was edited by Planet on October 31, 2002 at 08:23 AM.]

[magellan315]

A few months a local Geocaher was able to negotiate Geocaching Guidlines with a Florida water management district. Opening 500,000 acres(covering alomst 50% of Florida) for Geocaching, it took about two months of low key conversations. To help the water district management understand that geocaching was no different or dangerous as hiking that they already allowed.

I'd emphasise the Cahce in/Trash out, land management loves the fact that we will pick other peoples trash.

[+Sissy-n-CR]

Thanks for all of the input.

 

I think the major difference here is the fact the land is owned and/or controlled by a utility. They have extensive recreation areas and promote hunting, fishing, boating, and hiking on their land. So, I think it's basically an issue of they don't really to take on any liability and the easiest way to deal with it is not have an official stance--niether allow it nor prohibit it.

 

This is good because I've got an idea for two good caches in this one area--plus another one on some more land they have.

 

The dual will be a 1/1.5 or maybe 2/2 at or near a trailhead. In it will be clues for a multi that you have collect three pieces of the final coordinates--one for the longitude, one for the latitude, and then an offset that you have to project. In this area we can get WAAS very well, so the projection shouldn't be a problem. However, it's well into the open and you can be seen for a long distance. You will not even know the waypoint name, or find the cache page, unless you actually find the cache as the coordinates will be zeroed out on the cache page. (Found lists are a different story and don't know how to get around that.)

 

I figure this way people can get the easier one, but if they are up for a challenge...

 

Again, thanks,

 

CR

 

-- Insert pithy aphorism here --

[+Alan2]

If the park (private or public) takes on the potential liability of allowing hiking, fishing, hunting, boating, ATVing, cross country skiing, etc., what's the big deal about geocaching?

 

Alan

[+briansnat]

quote:

---

They want to make sure that wierd people from the internet aren't coming into town. I spoke with her at more length about the website and asked her to please look into it. I will be dropping off a copy of the disclaimer to her. I guess the old ladies in the Town Hall think there are only predators on the "Internet".

---

 

Should I change my avatar during the time they may be checking out this website?

[+Planet]

quote:

---

Originally posted by BrianSnat:

quote:

---

They want to make sure that wierd people from the internet aren't coming into town. I spoke with her at more length about the website and asked her to please look into it. I will be dropping off a copy of the disclaimer to her. I guess the old ladies in the Town Hall think there are only predators on the "Internet".

---

 

Should I change my avatar during the time they may be checking out this website?

---

 

That would be discriminating against the dentally challenged!

 

Cache you later,

Planet

 

I feel much more like I do now than when I first got here.

[Deanster]

I rather beg for forgiveness than ask for permission.