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Perfect example as to why we all need to think.

 

Some caches may be ok for night caching, but others are in no way appropriate for night caching. Think about it from the neighbors point of view. Some strange people moving about behind their houses(probably woke many of them up). It is very easly perceived that they might be doing something less than legal.

 

Remember to try and leave no trace of your visit. This includes harrasing the wildlife and the neighbors.

 

Weezer

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8912_200.jpg

 

If you've ever spent time in the desert during the summer, caching at night makes a lot of sense.

 

The people that posted do strike me as immature, but I can't help but wonder how much of this was them versus nosy neighbors?

 

Look at the time of the post, they found the cache at a reasonable hour which means that they started early. (10:49PM)

 

There aren't a lot of houses in that area according to the topo map, so what probably happened is that some dogs heard (something) and started barking. The neighbor broke out his 1,000,000 lumen spotlight to see what was up.

 

For some reason that I can't even remotely comprehend someone decided to call the police???? I'm still confused as to why? Lights on a hill don't automatically mean a signal of distress to me so I can't blame the hikers here either.

 

I could be wrong and they could have been making lots of loud noise and behaving in a way that would disturb the neighbors, but from what I read in the post this isn't made clear either way. In fact, other than feeling pretty safe in guessing that these people aren't active in the chess club, I don't see what they did that has the people in this thread worked up.

 

Even when they said: "We start out by waking up the neighborhood dogs and get them barking as we ascend to the cache." Do you honestly think that they actively tried to disturb people's pets? I can only read that as an attempt to write in an interesting way.

 

I don't know these people at all, but as it stands I'd rather defend them than vilify needlessly. I'm betting dollars to doughnuts that you all owe them an apology.

 

I knew I'd been in Berkeley too long when I saw "Free Firewood" and I wondered who this Firewood fellow was and what he had done.

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quote:
Originally posted by Eric O'Connor:

If you've ever spent time in the desert during the summer, caching at night makes a lot of sense.


 

Other then the heat thing, what other reason? Most critters that live in desert come out at night too.

 

quote:
Look at the time of the post, they found the cache at a reasonable hour which means that they started early. (10:49PM)

 

Yeah but when they found it it was about hour to midnight. I don't consider that reasonalbe if they could be seen and heard from somone's house. Out here public parks and perserves are closed at Dusk, LONG before the time they would have found the cache and therefore would have been tresspassing.

 

quote:
I don't see what they did that has the people in this thread worked up.

 

Nobody got worked up. They either were pointing something out. or stating an opinion.

 

quote:
I don't know these people at all, but as it stands I'd rather defend them than vilify needlessly. I'm betting dollars to doughnuts that you all owe them an apology.

 

I don't know them either and I am betting neither does Weezer or ACME. But neither Weezer or ACME nor I said anything to insult them. Acme was just pointing out an intresting Story with a heading to grab your attention and the others were opinions based on the readings.

 

So is this were we go round and round again, Eric?? icon_smile.gif

 

Cache On!!

 

James

"Big Dog"

-Clan Ferguson

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quote:
Originally posted by Eric O'Connor:

If you've ever spent time in the desert during the summer, caching at night makes a lot of sense.


 

Other then the heat thing, what other reason? Most critters that live in desert come out at night too.

 

quote:
Look at the time of the post, they found the cache at a reasonable hour which means that they started early. (10:49PM)

 

Yeah but when they found it it was about hour to midnight. I don't consider that reasonalbe if they could be seen and heard from somone's house. Out here public parks and perserves are closed at Dusk, LONG before the time they would have found the cache and therefore would have been tresspassing.

 

quote:
I don't see what they did that has the people in this thread worked up.

 

Nobody got worked up. They either were pointing something out. or stating an opinion.

 

quote:
I don't know these people at all, but as it stands I'd rather defend them than vilify needlessly. I'm betting dollars to doughnuts that you all owe them an apology.

 

I don't know them either and I am betting neither does Weezer or ACME. But neither Weezer or ACME nor I said anything to insult them. Acme was just pointing out an intresting Story with a heading to grab your attention and the others were opinions based on the readings.

 

So is this were we go round and round again, Eric?? icon_smile.gif

 

Cache On!!

 

James

"Big Dog"

-Clan Ferguson

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By the maps, it looked as though the location is at the outskirts of a residential area, so it wouldn't be a huge stretch of the imagination for someone to think that two people wandering out there close to midnight were some delirious people with heatstroke. But it's also possible that the person called because they were nervous that people were hiking along under the cover of darkness.

 

I know that many parks are off-limits after dark. If this one was such a park than I would agree with the topic name. Being careless and unprepared is also a poor way to act, regardless of the associated activity.

 

Jeremy Irish

Groundspeak - The Language of Location

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I've done my share of geocaching at night, and it can be lots of fun.

 

But there is no excuse, short of an emergency, for disturbing residents of an area after dark.

 

I think most people would have turned around and left immediately if they heard dogs start barking as they exited their car; one can't blame residents for calling the police if they spot "strangers," "strange vehicles," or "suspicious activity" in their neighborhood after dark.

 

I don't know anything about the specific area or cachers in question; for all I know use of the area may be permitted at night, but from the reaction of the neighborhood and officials, it wouldn't appear so.

 

Did the neighbors overreact? Probably so.

 

Did the cachers act responsibly, showing even a hint of courtesy, consideration for others, or common sense? Each of us can decide that for ourselves.

 

[This message was edited by BassoonPilot on June 24, 2002 at 10:47 AM.]

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This thread has the title of "How not to promote Geocaching", and then references a specific cache log, and a lot of negative comments follow, directed at some specific Geocachers.

 

Hard to tell if apologies are required, but I never think it is a very good idea to draw everybody’s attention to the specific negative actions of a specific geocacher. (unless that geocacher has consented by raising the issue on the forums him/herself). If you think someone has acted innappropriately, then e-mail them privately (obviously in a courteous, reasonable manner) and if you wish to discuss the issue on the forum then do so in a manner that doesn’t identify the alleged offender.

 

No... this isn’t any proposed "Rule" - I just think that it is a more constructive method of dealing with these issues.

 

You may not agree with what I say, but I will defend, to your death, my right to say it!(it's a Joke, OK!)

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Living in the area, I can say that night time caching is very popular with some people due to the heat of the day. Some desert caches are accessed by walking through a neighborhood to reach the trail and some are more intrusive than others.

 

I'd say that the way the post is written leaves a bit to be desired but I don't see where this was anything other than a typical geocaching adventure among the cacti. At least I can't say more without knowing more about the neighborhood.

 

Finally, pertoglyphs may be rare in other states but they are extremely common out here. If we couldn't place a cache near a petroglyph, we'd lose *MANY* good spots. The government does protect a lot of them but usually doesn't do anything for the one figure stick drawings.

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I only do Night time caches in rural areas using filtered light or IF gear. Use common sense in the aproach, noises off. I never have any problems with people because I don't go into areas that might bring the whole army down on my head like what happened to those kids. I'm sure they had fun with it though..

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The Mapquest aerial shows a developing neighborhood nearby, but not directly adjacent to the cache. Like others, I might be inclined to reserve judgement on the "culprit's" actions. I'd want to know about what actions may have attracted the neighbor's attention, what recent area activities may have made the neighbors sensitive, and if the area was closed (for example, in a county park that closed at sunset).

 

Two issues tend to lead me to be critical of their actions:

  • The tone of the log does not imply (at least to me) a great deal of respect for the people they disturbed.

  • Had they really been in trouble would the helicopter and spotlight been considered an intrusion?

 

Be Seeing You!

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quote:
Originally posted by sbell111:

Their real error was trying to access this cache from the residential neighborhood rather than the trail as suggested.


 

There is no Quote trail. The area is a mountain and we did start the cache from the sugested coordinates as provided by the creator of this cache.

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Ok replying to a lot of what the users have asked i have just a few things to say. I agree this may not have been the best cache to do at night, but what is. Most of the caches in our are are surrounded by homes and it is impossible to do them all in darkness and someone somewhere is going to see a flashlight no matter what kind of night filter you use. We used a moonlight led hedlamp very soft lighting. We made most of the hike in darkness in an effort to not disturb anyone (the moon provided more light than necesary for this hike) . We did not talk. Once the dogs started barking the damage was done. One of the dogs being a rotwiler was hell bent at making noise wether we stayed for the cache or left. We were quiet and did not intend to wake or disturb anyone, and for this we do apologize. I am saddened by some users who take this learning expirence i willingly shared with you all and use it to make personal attacks on me and dusty vehicle. I highly doubt the judgements of those who call us immature, while having never met us. Just to give you guys a little information about me, I am a med school student and a certified and working EMT. I do not think I am immature. I wish to further extend my apologies once again to those who were disturbed and as always i think some individuals need to lighten up. I thank the homeowners who called for help, if we had needed it their efforts would had been appriciated. I only offer to them that next time they be sure someone is in need befor wasting the valuable time of the Phoenix EMS. Happy Caching!

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I am the cache owner and I live in the neighborhood directly below the cache and saw nothing wrong with the excursion. I have hiked the area many times in the daylight and have been stared at by neighbors as I head into the hills. In my opinion the cache hunter ran into a homeowner who paid a $50,000 lot premium and feels THEY own the mountain and no one should hike there. Well that’s what you get for paying all that $$$$$ for a view of public property. Kind of like people who have a golf course view and then complain about the golf balls in their back yard.

 

WhereRwee?

Ken

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I've gone on a few night caches and I always do it like a night patrol in the army:

 

-Absolute Quiet

-Keep Lights out except red lights to read the map

-Walk quietly and as slowly as required

-recce the general area in the daylight

 

Rob

Mobile Cache Command

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Shadyfigure-

 

My post regarding your failure to use the suggested trail was based on Dusty Vehicle's statement that 'The trail would have been the easy way to go but who wants to do that, right?'.

 

If this assumption was in error, I sincerely apologize for any hard feelings.

 

As stated in my previous post, I don't really have other problems regarding your actions.

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quote:
Originally posted by solohiker:

So you are saying that we can rule out the possibility that the cacti induced a screaming and cursing salvo loud enough to wake the dead?

 

The plot thickens...


 

Yeah i actually have self control and yeah it hurts but its not like it would warrent that type of behavior.

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quote:
Originally posted by WhereRWee?:

I am the cache owner and I live in the neighborhood directly below the cache and saw nothing wrong with the excursion. In my opinion the cache hunter ran into a homeowner who paid a $50,000 lot premium and feels THEY own the mountain and no one should hike there. Well that’s what you get for paying all that $$$$$ for a view of public property.

 

You're probably right, but his log said the entire neighborhood came outside to see what was going on.

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quote:
Originally posted by mrcpu:

I've gone on a few night caches and I always do it like a night patrol in the army:

 

-Absolute Quiet

-Keep Lights out except red lights to read the map

-Walk quietly and as slowly as required

-recce the general area in the daylight

 

Rob

Mobile Cache Command


 

No, no, NO!

 

You just don't get it do you! When I cache at night, I don't wanna take no chances that a snake might sneak up on me and mistake me for a huge mouse, or some nighttime deer hunter might see my heat signature through his IR scope and believe that I was his prey, so what I always do is hang a couple of police sirens around my neck and have them blaring at full blast while I walk. I have a special "nite-pack" that includes a couple of car batteries, that I wear to provide proper power. I also have a set of high-output strobe lights I tie on my calves and that seems to keep the bears away. The red and green and blue rotating beacon lights keep the mice and deer away, and of course, as I walk along I continuously announce over a powerful bullhorn, "Attention, I am a human being! I am not a deer or a mouse or a bear! I do not want you to hurt me and I am not here to hurt you. Please disregard that man over there on the forrest trail with all the sirens, lights and noise. It is none of your concern!! Resume your normal sleep patterns or love-making activity that you were engaged in before I arrived on this planet. This is not a drill! I am a geocacher!"

 

Of course, I try to run as fast as I can, and drag cans and pots and pans behind me. I usually leave a trail from an open gas can that I carry, so when I get ready to return I just whip out my Bic and flick it! Viola!! Instant lighted path (and also a good way to remove any trackers that might have been following me in...)

 

Works every time! (i.e. I have only been shot at three or four times, and it was NOT, I repeat - NOT, because I was mistaken for a deer!)

 

icon_biggrin.gif

 

--majicman

 

(Always trade UP in both quantity and quality and Geocaches will be both self-sustaining and self-improving!)

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quote:
Originally posted by mrcpu:

I've gone on a few night caches and I always do it like a night patrol in the army:

 

-Absolute Quiet

-Keep Lights out except red lights to read the map

-Walk quietly and as slowly as required

-recce the general area in the daylight

 

Rob

Mobile Cache Command


 

No, no, NO!

 

You just don't get it do you! When I cache at night, I don't wanna take no chances that a snake might sneak up on me and mistake me for a huge mouse, or some nighttime deer hunter might see my heat signature through his IR scope and believe that I was his prey, so what I always do is hang a couple of police sirens around my neck and have them blaring at full blast while I walk. I have a special "nite-pack" that includes a couple of car batteries, that I wear to provide proper power. I also have a set of high-output strobe lights I tie on my calves and that seems to keep the bears away. The red and green and blue rotating beacon lights keep the mice and deer away, and of course, as I walk along I continuously announce over a powerful bullhorn, "Attention, I am a human being! I am not a deer or a mouse or a bear! I do not want you to hurt me and I am not here to hurt you. Please disregard that man over there on the forrest trail with all the sirens, lights and noise. It is none of your concern!! Resume your normal sleep patterns or love-making activity that you were engaged in before I arrived on this planet. This is not a drill! I am a geocacher!"

 

Of course, I try to run as fast as I can, and drag cans and pots and pans behind me. I usually leave a trail from an open gas can that I carry, so when I get ready to return I just whip out my Bic and flick it! Viola!! Instant lighted path (and also a good way to remove any trackers that might have been following me in...)

 

Works every time! (i.e. I have only been shot at three or four times, and it was NOT, I repeat - NOT, because I was mistaken for a deer!)

 

icon_biggrin.gif

 

--majicman

 

(Always trade UP in both quantity and quality and Geocaches will be both self-sustaining and self-improving!)

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On many nights I am up and 1 or 3 in the morning going, this would be a good time to go Geocaching. Then I remember what idiots people are about controlling what goes on off their property.

 

I was caching once in the daytime on a paved public trail, looking mighty strange I am sure with my GPS and looking in the brush. I got some strange looks from the neighbors but no one asked what I was doing. I could tell they were itching to ask, and I would have been more then happy to talk to them, but they never got close enough to make that easy. I half expected the police to show up, because one of the dogs was going nuts over me as I walked in a dry creek bed.

 

All I was doing was walking around with a GPS and never said one word except hello to some joggers and mumbled under my breath because I could not find the cache.

 

If this is how panicky people are at 5pm, I don't want to be out at 2am much because I will probably get shot just because I was within range and that should make it ok, right?

 

So I just sit on my computer most nights wishing I could be outside more.

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