These Forums Need a Defibrillator

[umc]

Trippy does bring up that other point of taking a thread off topic. So what do you do with the off topic forum then? Thread is on topic and in General but then someone Like Trippy comes in and takes that same great thread right off topic. So do you have a moderator move just the off topic portion of the thread to the OT forum or the whole thing? Just Kidding, and thanks for some comic relief Trippy.

 

Apk

Sbell

 

Deep Breaths. Come on now it is even in one of your sig lines.

 

 

[edit] OT: I just have to know. GrandMaster Cache how do you decide what to bold and what not to bold? Is there a particular method that you use? It makes for very interesting reading. Thanks.

 

______________________________________________________________________________________

So far so good, somewhat new owner of a second/new Garmin GPS V 20 plus finds so far with little to no problem. We'll see what happens when there are leaves on the trees again.

[+ApK]

quote:

---

Originally posted by GRANDMASTER CACHE:

Hopefully I can use this to illustrate my point: If the established members are sitting around telling the same jokes "over and over again" to each _other_, I can understand your analogy - it would make sense that you are intrigued. But if it's a new member, it's new news. Ya know? As for an analogy, Seinfeld tells the "same jokes over and over" but in different cities (read, different audiences).

---

Good point. Note, though, that a stand up comic, like a teacher or other public speaker, is a professional, and his job demands he repeat himself over and over.

We're a bunch of folks with a common interest

hanging around chatting for fun. You'd have a right to EXPECT Sienfeld to repeat himself to you when you go to his show, should not EXPECT a bunch of strangers to happily repeat themselves to you, when you say you want to join the community, but don't have the courtesy to do the forum equivelent of 'listening to the conversation' for a few minutes before jumping in.

Perhaps the 'Getting Started' forum is a special case, where you should not participate if you're not willing to be a teacher.

 

quote:

---

Do you think forums should be so impersonable that people should first engage in your suggested "research" before asking a question?

---

No, and that's why I said I thought that my "2.b" option in my previous post is an acceptable situation. I just feel that doing a bit of research first is commendable and would reflect well on a newbie.

 

quote:

---

I'm glad my first post (a question about a laptop cable) was answered politely by someone. I've been "politely" answering the same questions for years on marine forums. I enjoy the hobby, and enjoy giving back.

---

 

Sure. But you wouldn't have been put off if your answer was in the form of a polite markwell, as opposed to a rude markewell, as I illustrated in a previous post, would you?

 

ApK

[+Trudy & the beast]

quote:

---

Originally posted by ApK:

...[snip, snip]... If you say you should not markwell (should it be capitalized?)...[snip, snip]...

ApK

---

 

Kelly,

should the verb "Markwell/markwell" be capitalized?

[GRANDMASTER CACHE]

Hi ApK,

No, I wouldn't have minded at all if I was markwelled on my first post (as long as it was more than just a giggly person saying "you've been markwelled" with an air of mystery). Like I said, how many people explain what "markwelling" is to a newbie even as they claim their victim of repetition? Or should a person review each and every online forum to research the "secret lingo" as well?

 

Fair enough on the other issues. We can agree to disagree. I like to think of online forums as more interactive, and I don't think of it as "repeating myself" unless it's to the same set of ears, ya know? I also like forums where people aren't "offending" anyone if they ask a question without first spending hours perusing past threads. Hey, they want an answer fast, and I understand that's why they posted an online question. If they wanted to do a research paper on the topic, there's better "resources" than looking for their answer on a would-be "discussion" board. Remember, just as Seinfeld's audiences are "new members," the person asking the "same question" is a new member. I think the win/win solution to the situation would be to explain what "markwelling" is to a new member as we send 'em off to their newfound wealth of information.

 

Now, how do I explain what I boldtype? Well, addressing the age old issue of the written internet being "emotionless" I just bold type for emphasis on a particular word or phrase. I suppose it can be as hard to figure out as why/when/where people choose to use their emoticons, or just as easy.

 

Sometimes I just do it at random to peak some folks' curiosity in an otherwise boring, redundant post.

 

Grandmaster Cache

[+Trudy & the beast]

quote:

---

Originally posted by Trudy & The Beast:

quote:

---

Originally posted by ApK:

...[snip, snip]... If you say you should not markwell (should it be capitalized?)...[snip, snip]...

ApK

---

 

Kelly,

should the verb "Markwell/markwell" be capitalized?

---

 

See: http://opentopic.Groundspeak.com/0/OpenTopic?a=tpc&s=1750973553&f=3000917383&m=7500923145&r=1870903145#1870903145

 

Now I have Markwelled my own post....

Look what you guys have done!

[+geospotter]

quote:

---

Originally posted by GRANDMASTER CACHE:

Hey, they want an answer fast, and I understand that's why they posted an online question.

---

 

Well, if they wanted a FAST answer they would use the search feature and get an instant answer. Asking a question requires WAITING for someone with the answer to respond.

 

geospotter

[umc]

Search feature ignorance.

 

I'm an idiot when it comes to the search feature I guess (not to mention other thing). I have done searches in the past using the keywords I think would work or the words I want to see something on but get nothing. Sometimes its better to type in Doot in order to find that thread that was once on topic then went off that was a whole topic in itself about Doots. I at that point can scroll up and find what I wanted in the first place. I have to say although the search feature is nice, its not the strongest. Now tell me how dumb that is and that there is no difference between search engines out there. I guess what I'm saying here is that searching does not always work especially if you don't know what your searching for.

 

______________________________________________________________________________________

So far so good, somewhat new owner of a second/new Garmin GPS V 20 plus finds so far with little to no problem. We'll see what happens when there are leaves on the trees again.

[+ApK]

quote:

---

Originally posted by Trudy & The Beast:

[see: http://opentopic.Groundspeak.com/0/OpenTopic?a=tpc&s=1750973553&f=3000917383&m=7500923145&r=1870903145#1870903145

 

Now I have Markwelled my own post....

Look what you guys have done!

---

 

But that's this thread! The only reference to capitalization I can find is my own!

Is it up to Markwell to decide, since it's named for him, or the coiner of the term, or is there some language rule that governs it?

 

ApK

[GRANDMASTER CACHE]

Here's an example: We spent a ton of time "searching" when our Legend popped up with some "warning" message when we were loading up Mapsource. Well, type in "Legend Warning" for a search and you pull up every legend thread imaginable! Type in Warning and you pull up a thread where people are cautioning one another about stumbling into one of my novela-length posts! Needless to say, we eventually found the answer, but the response time in the GPS/software forum would arguably have netted a faster answer. Searches can be real frustrating. I've always given back by sharing answers when I've got them, so I don't want to feel too "imposing" when I'm new and I've got questions.

 

Grandmaster Cache

[+ApK]

quote:

---

Originally posted by GRANDMASTER CACHE:

Like I said, how many people explain what "markwelling" is to a newbie even as they claim their victim of repetition? Or should a person review each and every online forum to research the "secret lingo" as well?

---

 

No, I agree with you on that. I didn't even realize there was an issue at hand here about explaining obscure terms. Actually, I only got the meaning of 'markwelling' confirmed to me today when I asked about it, and I've been here a long while. I also don't know what 'troll' means on these forums, although I believe I've pretty muched deduced meaning from context...and I've asked outright.

 

ApK

[+Tonsil]

I think once a word becomes a generally accepted part of language, the tendency is to not capitalize it. The only example I can think of right now is "spoonerism".

 

------------------------------

?You are your own worst food.?

[GRANDMASTER CACHE]

Hi ApK,

 

I do think that's the problem - not knowing what the term means. It is too "insider-ish" for a first-time poster. I wondered about the term for awhile, but then figured out the meaning due to its association with linking previously covered topics. I think clarification of the term is arguably a good point. I never think referencing a well-covered topic is a bad thing; a correct answer is a good answer.

 

Funny you should mention troll... I've always remembered the tale of the billy-goats going over the bridge, and the troll wanting to eat them. So I've always associated a troll as evil - otherwise that might have confused me, too, since trolls from the '80s are great little dolls with fantastically coloured hair that make great keychains and pencil toppers. Hey, look just above - billy goats. That's not capitalized, after Billy. Maybe that helps with the Markwell/markwell spelling hearings?

 

Grandmaster Cache

[+trippy1976]

Just put 'doots' in every thread. Then you can just do a search and you'll get all the threads.

 

Oh wait. That's kind of like just looking through the forums.

 

I have rare luck with the search engine too. You'll notice the other day I posted a request to be markwelled to a thread I just couldn't find using the search tool about setting backgrounds on cache pages.

 

A watchful cacher eagerly markwelled me and my problem was solved.

 

I think the consensus is that Markwelling is okay, so long as it's done politely.

 

But regarding off topic threads... noone has really talked. There is a time and place for every conversation. I think every conversation posted here gets a chance to live but once it's gone totally out of control, the mods tend to lock it and really... it's probably for the best. After all... noone is going to read a 7 page long thread about condoms in caches when for the last 90 posts it's degenerated down to

 

"Where do you get off saying I suck?"

"I never said you suck, you read my post wrong."

"So now you're saying I'm dumb??"

"No, I'm not saying you're dumb. You just didn't read my post right."

"Maybe you typed it wrong."

"Maybe I did."

"Maybe it's /you/ who's dumb!"

"What?? I never said you were dumb in the first place you idiot. Where do you get off calling me dumb?"

 

and so on. At that point, it deserves to die a speedy death because anyone with any valuable input has already said their piece and it's unlikely that anyone who could add further will wade through the pages of crap following the good stuff in order to voice a good opinion. At least that's my opinion. And it's going to get rehashed eventually anyway. Deal with it. Either politely markwell or add to the conversation. As pointed out in the past, markwelling doesn't put a bullet in a conversation. It just points out previous conversation on the same subject. If anything it improves the conversation because you get to read the 900 other things that have been said about something and maybe, just maybe, you'll find out something that will change your point of view about the topic.

 

For what it's worth... I'm not calling anyone dumb

 

--------

trippy1976 - Team KKF2A

Saving geocaches - one golf ball at a time.

[+geospotter]

quote:

---

I have rare luck with the search engine too. You'll notice the other day I posted a request to be markwelled to a thread I just couldn't find using the search tool about setting backgrounds on cache pages.

---

 

Just out of curiosity, what did you search on? I entered "cache page background" and easily found several posts.

 

geospotter

[Cholo]

This has been the perfect place to test that wheel on my new mouse. Instead of a wheel, it should be called a 'cyber shovel'. A good place, until the next self-righteous cache stealer pops up again, or the new 'report this' feature gets beaten to death. Love it, ain't this fantastic!?

[+Divine]

quote:

---

Originally posted by Tonsil:

I think once a word becomes a generally accepted part of language, the tendency is to not capitalize it.

---

 

As not being native English speaker I'm not sure about the English rules on that, but at least in Finnish language the rule is like you said. When the word is not used as a proper noun any more, it shouldn't be capitalized.

 

That probably goes for most languages. Of course, in German language all nouns are capitalized, but I believe even there 'markwellen' as a verb would be written in lower case.

 

- All you need is a sick mind and a healthy body. -

[+Jamie Z]

quote:

---

Originally posted by Tonsil:

I think once a word becomes a generally accepted part of language, the tendency is to not capitalize it.

---

I guess it can go either way.

 

Ferris wheel is acceptable capitalized or not

 

Brussels sprouts must be capitalized

 

guillotine is not capitalized

 

While this isn't the same as markwelling, it's similar.

 

I think if you refer to "doing a Markwell," it must be capitalized, but by simply "markwelling" it shouldn't be.

 

Jamie

[+Trudy & the beast]

There you have it. I believe we have a consensus.

The verb markwell needs to be capitalized, Markwell the name must be while markwell the noun as in reference would not be.

 

My first encounter with the term "troll" was many years ago when AOL was new and I believed AOL was the communications panacea. Troll on those forums meant a lurker; someone who soakes up all the wonderful input to a thread and contributes nothing in return.

[umc]

Not to get too far off topic (cause this is a great one ) but the way I have always understood 'Troll' is like the fishing term Troll or Trolling. When your trolling (fishing) your moving along slowly with your line in the water hopping to catch a fish with your moving presentation. Same thing on forums. Some one sets posts out there hopping to catch someone just to get a rise out of them. Trolling for negative attention.

 

______________________________________________________________________________________

So far so good, somewhat new owner of a second/new Garmin GPS V 20 plus finds so far with little to no problem. We'll see what happens when there are leaves on the trees again.

[+Skully & Mulder et al.]

I enjoy markwelling!!! Markwelling shouldn't kill a thread. I don't post on this forum often - but I come here often for information. It is great to have links to previous threads available.

[+Trudy & the beast]

quote:

---

Originally posted by umc:

[Re: Trolling] .... Someone sets posts out there hopping to catch someone just to get a rise out of them. Trolling for negative attention.

---

 

UMC,

I like your definition better although it is in conflict with mine. Perhaps we can agree to use the term in either context. Or, would that just muddy the waters?

tb

[umc]

Muddy the waters, lol

 

I think we can agree that it can be used in either context just like markwelling is. Like has been mentioned (too) many times there are two different types of markwelling. The orginal good. I would think that 'Troll' may have started out in a good way also then somewhere along the line switched to a more negative term.

 

______________________________________________________________________________________

So far so good, somewhat new owner of a second/new Garmin GPS V 20 plus finds so far with little to no problem. We'll see what happens when there are leaves on the trees again.

[+trippy1976]

I agree with umc's definition of a troll. What you are talking about Trudy is what I call a lurker.

 

But to call a lurker a troll and agree that the term 'troll' can refer to a troll or a lurker is, to me, like agreeing that the term Kerosene can refer to both a type of fossil fuel and to kool aid It's just not right!

 

For the record, Netspeak defined a troll as:

'troll-- A person who posts only to inflame opinion is "trolling for flames". Most are so obvious that only the most clueless "newbies" respond.'

 

--------

trippy1976 - Team KKF2A

Saving geocaches - one golf ball at a time.

[umc]

Did you just call me a newbie?

 

______________________________________________________________________________________

So far so good, somewhat new owner of a second/new Garmin GPS V 20 plus finds so far with little to no problem. We'll see what happens when there are leaves on the trees again.

[+trippy1976]

Where do I get off calling you a newbie!?

 

Seriously though... no.

 

--------

trippy1976 - Team KKF2A

Saving geocaches - one golf ball at a time.

[umc]

Seriously, I was just kidding. I was joking around because I like to respond to trolls for some reason. Its an urge that is very hard to resist. Its that 8 year old in me I guess. I guess if it comes down to it and someone has a problem with a troll you could just markwell them to death.

 

______________________________________________________________________________________

So far so good, somewhat new owner of a second/new Garmin GPS V 20 plus finds so far with little to no problem. We'll see what happens when there are leaves on the trees again.

[+lostinjersey]

quote:

---

Originally posted by Markwell:

Typical Examples:

How did you find out about Geocaching?

Which GPS should I buy?

How do I add formatting to a cache page?

How can I find the coordinates of a street address?

---

 

Ok, so I guess there will never be new models or new features to discuss? and newbies shouldn't be asked why/how they joined up?

 

your 3rd & 4th examples are (i suppose) correct in that discussing them again isn't really necesary, but to be honest, let's say I put in some search terms. 9x out of 10 there are only I don't know... 300 posts with those words in them. yeah i could probably narrow it down by using more & more words, but if I'm a newbie, (and even if I'm not) it's just dang easier to start a new thread. lazy? maybe. besides if I do find a thread that hasn't had a post in I dunno 4 months, and I want discussion, what's more likely to get discussion, that old ancient one, or a nice brandy spanking new prominently displayed on page one?

 

markwelling has it's purpose, but I tend to view it as code for "stop talking about this. here's where you can find the answer you need." OR "here's where you should've discussed this, and not created a new thread."

 

To be totally honest, aside from something instructive and fact based that won't ever change. i.e. how did i change my sig line, or how do i log a travel bug, i think rehashing old topics isn't necesarily bad. the discussion may go in new directions, inspire new ideas or creative solutions. and there are going to be posts either way, whether they're in an old thread or a new one. so who does this negatively affect if the 10 posts to "what's your favorite time to of year to geocache" appears in a brand spanking new thread or an old one" 10 posts are 10 posts. unless the intent is to not have repetition, which is akin to saying "stop talking" which is why markwelling has such a negative (to some) connotation. perhaps when you do it you don't mean anything negative, but when others do, it sometimes has a negative tone to it, and IMHO with the exception I noted above (fact based, never changing answers) I think it tends to stifle discussion, which is definately negative if you ask me.

 

My .02

 

william

 

 

www.gpswnj.com

[+Team StitchesOnQuilts]

I agree with whoever said that "Markwelling" a post should be done politely.

 

However, I didn't see anywhere in this thread where people considered the impact to the system(s) that run the forums.

 

Who pays for the disk drives that all these posts are stored on? Who has to do the work to back them up? Who has to fix them when things go awry? Who has to deal with the complaints from people who go ballistic and complain to "the head honcho"?

 

I find it very fun to participate in the forums. I can write what I want, and it gets published in a public place right away! It's especially fun because the other who are publishing are interesting, as is the topic.

 

But the fact is: we don't have to deal with the fallout of having to store, backup, and admin dozens (hundreds? thousands?) of repetitive posts. I have been a big fan of Markwelling threads, because, in my opinion, each time we do it, that's a tiny bit less work Jeremy has to do in regards to the forums, and a tiny bit more he can do on more interesting stuff, like site development.

 

Shannah

[umc]

Shannah,

 

You and I pay for it. Think about it, we pay a great price of $3.00 a month for our charter membership. Now if there are a 1000 people doing this thats $3,000 a month that can go into whatever. Thats more than enough to pay for and maintain this site.

 

______________________________________________________________________________________

So far so good, somewhat new owner of a second/new Garmin GPS V 20 plus finds so far with little to no problem. We'll see what happens when there are leaves on the trees again.

[Jeremy]

I tolerate OT posts.. to a point. Pointing to a photo on a site called Bonerz tends to exceed the good graces of posts in the forums. Since it was both off-topic and offensive I closed the topic. So quit complaining (though, admittedly, complaining is the point of the off-topic topic)

 

Jeremy Irish

Groundspeak - The Language of Location

[+Trudy & the beast]

quote:

---

Originally posted by umc:

Did you just call me a newbie?

---

 

I think Trippy was calling me a newbie.

[+poksal]

I (wrongfully) took the Markwelling as a put down at first. New folk don't realize it is a familiar way of referencing to additional chatts. I took it (at first) as a 'hey we already did this'.

 

I suggest something like ....

.. "and more on this subject can be found at LINK"

 

.. then no one would misunderstand.

 

However, I'm sure some things need the other kind of Markwelling, too.

 

...My simple minded two cents worth...

 

** The worst suggestion of a life time may be the catalyst to the best idea of the century, don't fail to listen to suggestions

[+trippy1976]

I wasn't calling anyone anything.

 

Except the guy who put up that ugly wall paper in my kitchen that I'm now tearing down. I have some names for him alright

 

--------

trippy1976 - Team KKF2A

Saving geocaches - one golf ball at a time.

[+Mudfrog]

Markwelling can be a big help at times. The link may take you to the exact place where your questions are answered. But i would say that sometimes that link could be months old then of course be out of date. I do try to do a search now when i do have a question to ask.

 

I remember my first post to the forums back in April.. Newbie question I didnt even think of doing a search on the forums at that time. Guess it was just kinda nice to get my feet wet here on the forums and see first hand what some of ya'lls opinions were.

 

As far as "off topic" goes, we dont need to make a seperate forum just for that. The forums are fun the way they are and IMHO would get kinda boring if only the same old GeoCaching, GPSr related stuff was posted. Shoot, i dont think there would be a forum because most of the subjects have been brought up before. I can only imagine how much markwelling would be going on then!!

 

[This message was edited by Mudfrog on December 13, 2002 at 10:09 AM.]

[+majicman]

I think what these forums need is more Mitsukos, Chobs, Majicmans and even an extra Criminal or two!

 

Frivolity is the spice of life!

 

--majicman

My new book: (http://www.thetruthbook.us )