Hint: "Call me on my cell phone if you need help"

July 15, 2002

I recently hunted a 3-part cache which, for the record, was a lot of fun and I do really appreciate the hard work on the part of the cacher to hide it. However, the "hint" that was included was just, well, read it for yourself:

At stage 2 of this cache, I came up emptyhanded and reluctantly decided to decode the hint. It said "you may e-mail me in advance for my cell number. Take it with you along with your cell phone if you think you will have trouble".

Um, am I the only geocacher who never decodes the hints before first looking for a cache? I NEVER use hints unless/until I am really stumped.

The more I thought about this the more absurd this hint was. I mean, the cacher who needs the hint is already out there! How could they possibly have the cacher's cell number if they hadn't already "cheated" and decoded the hint at home? And not everyone has a cellphone, or if they do, they may not be in their home range and would incur expensive raoming charges. Besides, as a generally solitary geocacher, I would be uncomfortable calling a stranger on the phone for help on a cache, and anyway, what if they weren't available? What if it's 7 am on a Sunday morning, or even late at night? Do they still want phone calls then?

So is it just me that feels that if one is going to post a hint, it should be a useful one? Or am I just being nit-picky? I'd like to say again that the cacher who placed this one is a very generous and prolific hider of caches in our area and I appreciate their contribution to the sport, but this "hint" really got me to thinkin'.

July 15, 2002

Yeah...this does seem like quite the strange hint. I don't look at the hint until I get to the cache and cannot find it, so this hint wouldn't really help me either. Maybe that should be included in the description and a different hint should be used. Alot of people don't have cellphones...what are they supposed to do. A different hint would be better.

20.7k · July 15, 2002

Even if I did read the hint before I went out, I couldn't imagine emailing the cache owner (a few days in advance) and asking for his cel number on the off chance that I don't find the cache.

July 15, 2002

Quite often, people choose to provide no hint at all. What would you have done if this had been the case? You'd probably go home. It seems to me that this person has given you the option of calling him directly which many-a-parnoid wouldn't do. I think it's great. If you don't have a cell phone or don't want to spend the $0.20 for a roaming call, just consider this a difficult cache with no hint and move on to the next.

5.2k · July 15, 2002

quote:
Originally posted by DisQuoi:
... don't want to spend the $0.20 for a roaming call, ...

Wow, you guys got it cheap out there in the east. Here in California, Verizon gets $0.69 per minute for roaming !!

And I'm in the same boat as the other posters: I don't decode the hint until I get stuck - so I would still be stuck in this case.

Lil Devil

5.2k · July 15, 2002

quote:
Originally posted by DisQuoi:
... don't want to spend the $0.20 for a roaming call, ...

Wow, you guys got it cheap out there in the east. Here in California, Verizon gets $0.69 per minute for roaming !!

And I'm in the same boat as the other posters: I don't decode the hint until I get stuck - so I would still be stuck in this case.

Lil Devil

20.7k · July 15, 2002

quote:
Originally posted by DisQuoi:
Quite often, people choose to provide no hint at all. What would you have done if this had been the case? You'd probably go home. It seems to me that this person has given you the option of calling him directly which many-a-parnoid wouldn't do. I think it's great. If you don't have a cell phone or don't want to spend the $0.20 for a roaming call, just consider this a difficult cache with no hint and move on to the next.

If you are going to leave this hint, why bother enciphering it? If it is in the cache description, a person knows to contact the cache owner to obtain the cel number. If it is enciphered, it is more likely that you are just going to waste time in the field deciphering a clue that is of no use to you.

July 15, 2002

quote:
Originally posted by DisQuoi:
Quite often, people choose to provide no hint at all. What would you have done if this had been the case? You'd probably go home. It seems to me that this person has given you the option of calling him directly which many-a-parnoid wouldn't do. I think it's great. If you don't have a cell phone or don't want to spend the $0.20 for a roaming call, just consider this a difficult cache with no hint and move on to the next.

DisQui, you are completely missing the point. The cache came complete with an encoded hint, leading people to believe that if they really got stumped, they could use the hint to help them. If a hider doesn't want to provide a hint, that's fine, then don't provide one. But providing a useless hint is worse than providing none at all. The geocacher is led to believe that if he hunts this cache and cannot find it, that the hint may assist them so they won't come out of the woods emptyhanded after hours of searching.

Re cell phones, I believe that many goecachers play this sport as a way to get out and enjoy the the great outdoors. Yakking on a cell phone out in the woods is hardly what most would consider part of the outdoor experience. Your remark about not wanting to spend 20 cents on roaming charges is a non sequitur, and also does not address the fact that many phones simply don't work outside certain zones.

p.s. What is a "many-a-parnoid"?

[This message was edited by littlefrog on July 15, 2002 at 11:13 AM.]

July 15, 2002

I can understand the argument that this kind of hint would have been more helpful if it had simply been left unencrypted in the description. I'm not missing that point. But you must keep in mind that there is no requirment for someone to leave any hint at all.

I also agree that a pointless encrypted hint only wastes time as you sit decrpyt it. But I do not see room for complaining that you felt "misled". In the end, you have the same amount of help as if there was no hint at all.

I can't speak for this person, but one way to protect the difficulty of a cache is to intentionally require that if someone wants a hint, that they make a second trip. Frustrating ... yes but certainly a valid thing to do.

But yes ... this may be a simple case of not thinking it through.

RE: Cell phones. I don't have a cell phone but if I did, I would certainly use it outdoors. I don't mind speaking to my wife or a friend (not that I don't consider my wife a friend as well) while I'm hiking or taking in a great view. I also regularly take a watch, shoes, GPS, walkman, pants, and many other things that don't grow on trees.

5k · July 15, 2002

I agree with a number of you on different points.

Like DisQuoi, I like the idea of being able to call the cache owner if I need to...that's a good idea, in theory. Of course, not everyone has a cellular phone, and caches aren't always placed in a location with service. Personally, I'd like it more if this hint was given where a payphone was nearby.

Also, like jhwf4, I don't ever decode the hint until I'm in the woods, stumped. This hint would have been useless to me, regardless of how good of an idea I think it might be.

...and like Littlefrog and Sbell, I think useless hints are worse than no hints. The info should not have been encrypted.

Jamie

July 15, 2002

quote:
Originally posted by DisQuoi:
I can understand the argument that this kind of hint would have been more helpful if it had simply been left unencrypted in the description. I'm not missing that point. But you must keep in mind that there is no requirment for someone to leave any hint at all.

I have no problem whatsoever with hintless caches, and have hunted several (sucessfully I might add). But this cache led potential finders to believe that there was a hint to help them when in fact there was not.

quote:
I also agree that a pointless encrypted hint only wastes time as you sit decrpyt it. But I do not see room for complaining that you felt "misled". In the end, you have the same amount of help as if there was no hint at all.

See above. Please note also that I never "complained" about feeling "misled". I ended up not needing the hint anyway and sucessfully logged this cache. BTW I had a great time doing so and thanked the cache owner for the fun afternoon.

quote:
I can't speak for this person, but one way to protect the difficulty of a cache is to intentionally require that if someone wants a hint, that they make a second trip. Frustrating ... yes but certainly a valid thing to do.

Guess you've never hunted a cache while out of state on a roadtrip then, eh?

[This message was edited by littlefrog on July 15, 2002 at 12:03 PM.]

July 15, 2002

quote:
Originally posted by DisQuoi:
I can understand the argument that this kind of hint would have been more helpful if it had simply been left unencrypted in the description. I'm not missing that point. But you must keep in mind that there is no requirment for someone to leave any hint at all.

I have no problem whatsoever with hintless caches, and have hunted several (sucessfully I might add). But this cache led potential finders to believe that there was a hint to help them when in fact there was not.

quote:
I also agree that a pointless encrypted hint only wastes time as you sit decrpyt it. But I do not see room for complaining that you felt "misled". In the end, you have the same amount of help as if there was no hint at all.

See above. Please note also that I never "complained" about feeling "misled". I ended up not needing the hint anyway and sucessfully logged this cache. BTW I had a great time doing so and thanked the cache owner for the fun afternoon.

quote:
I can't speak for this person, but one way to protect the difficulty of a cache is to intentionally require that if someone wants a hint, that they make a second trip. Frustrating ... yes but certainly a valid thing to do.

Guess you've never hunted a cache while out of state on a roadtrip then, eh?

[This message was edited by littlefrog on July 15, 2002 at 12:03 PM.]

July 15, 2002

quote:
Personally, I'd like it more if this hint was given where a payphone was nearby.

And if the hider isn't home, or the hunter has decided to go night geocaching and it's 2 am, then what?

July 15, 2002

quote:
Personally, I'd like it more if this hint was given where a payphone was nearby.

And if the hider isn't home, or the hunter has decided to go night geocaching and it's 2 am, then what?

5k · July 15, 2002

quote:
Originally posted by littlefrog:
And if the hider isn't home, or the hunter has decided to go night geocaching and it's 2 am, then what?

Well, I haven't completely thought this through... but I've given some thought to leaving my phone number as a hint before... And, at least for me, I think it would work. I'm usually reachable by phone probably 90% of the time, and a 2:00 am call? Big deal. It might happen once. That'd be kinda cool, knowing someone was out searching for my cache in the middle of the night. I don't mind talking to someone at strange hours, as long as it's legitimate.

Jamie

July 15, 2002

I always decode the darn hints before I ever print out the page. If I need it - it is there. When I am out in the -whatever- woods the last thing I want to do is stand there and decode the thing. Guess it's call pure laziness. Most hints at least HERE in central Oregon are rather ambiguous. Saying "in a tree" or "look for wood" or "in a pile of rocks"... well.. there are tons of those things anywhere you go, it only helps you when you are right on top of it. Another thing, and I am guilty of this too, is that lots of cachers put insanely long hints, just sortof chatty.. and decrypting all that while gripping the sweaty paper and trying to balance my camera, gps and cache bag, keep my dog from harassing squirrels and get to the cache before my husband..... hehe - well I just would rather have the computer do it for me

July 15, 2002

I always decode the darn hints before I ever print out the page. If I need it - it is there. When I am out in the -whatever- woods the last thing I want to do is stand there and decode the thing. Guess it's call pure laziness. Most hints at least HERE in central Oregon are rather ambiguous. Saying "in a tree" or "look for wood" or "in a pile of rocks"... well.. there are tons of those things anywhere you go, it only helps you when you are right on top of it. Another thing, and I am guilty of this too, is that lots of cachers put insanely long hints, just sortof chatty.. and decrypting all that while gripping the sweaty paper and trying to balance my camera, gps and cache bag, keep my dog from harassing squirrels and get to the cache before my husband..... hehe - well I just would rather have the computer do it for me

2.6k · July 15, 2002

quote:
Originally posted by DisQuoi:

I also agree that a pointless encrypted hint only wastes time as you sit decrpyt it. But I do not see room for complaining that you felt "misled". In the end, you have the same amount of help as if there was no hint at all.

Being one of those that doesn't read the hint (and sometimes not even the discription). It's quite agrivating to get to the point of finally breaking down to use the hint only to be left with a useless clue.

If you want to get cute, just leave it blank.

george

Remember: Half the people you meet are below average.

July 15, 2002

My philosophy is that a cache should be hidden from casual hikers but findable by a geocacher. That means a hint that will direct you to the cache. I print out my cache sheets ahead of time as I am very spontaneous.

A favorite method of mine is to give a compass bearing from something that is obvious, once in the area of the cache. There has been a tremendous amount of growth in the hobby and we risk some ecological damage while rummaging around for a well hidden or poorly reported cache. The more rangers we irk by trompling on their trilliums, the more regulations and prohibited areas we will face.

Steve Bukosky N9BGH

Waukesha Wisconsin

July 15, 2002

I just hate owners that put in worthless cheats like "it is best to park in the upper lot".

Cheats are needed because caches don't stay forever. If a cache is gone and you are looking for an hour it gets pretty hard to "tread lightly" as you start thinking "well I guess they COULD have hidden it up that cliff".

Geo Jeff

(leave more than you take)

July 15, 2002

As he sat there on his deck drinking a beer, his prepaid cellphone chirped.

"Hello", he said as he walked across the room to the lockup.

He chatted for a few moments discussing the weather while he quickly put the well oiled bolt into the rifle.

As he continued to chat with the caller he walked over to the edge of the deck and rested the rifle on the tripod.

"Can you hold on a sec?" He said and sat the phone down. He breathed slowly, controlling his heart rate and breathing. With is left eye still open he gazed down the scope with his right eye and lined the cross hairs on the centre of mass of the target. Slowly but purposfully all the muscles in his right hand began to tense.

As always, he was surprised when the shot was fired. The target was no longer in his scope. He picked up the phone, "Hello? Hello?... Helloooo?"

Turning off the phone he went back to his chair and continued his beer.

Rob

Mobile Cache Command

July 15, 2002

The preceeding message is a complete act of fiction! It's what came to mind when I started to read the thread...

GREAT. Your out in the woods all alone at a known set of cooridinates and you call a complete stranger who knows where you are!

Rob

Mobile Cache Command

4.5k · July 16, 2002

Everyone plays different, but i cant imagine decrypting and looking at any hint ahead of time. If i get stumped, then i will decrypt out in the field. That worthless "email me for my cellphone ahead of time" hint would have been a bit upsetting to say the least. I agree that it would be fine if there was no hint at all, but this one for me would have been totally useless....

mrcpu, my wife's Dad kinda worries about things like that as well. He has the notion that someone could post coordinates just to lure people out into the woods and then do whatever. Who knows, guess anything is possible!

4.5k · July 16, 2002

Cell phones are great to have in the field in case you get seriously injured. If you're out of range you might be able to crawl to a spot that is in range. If you're with someone else, your buddy can do that for you. Wouldn't it be nice to call 911 and tell them you in the woods with a broken leg and provide your location within a few feet? Explorers of the past would have killed for a system like that.

"Christophera here Queena Isabella. So a here a I am a, there are darka skin natives, with lotsa golda, and I'll be comin' home a soona and we alla be richa. Signing offa for now".

Plus when I'm done caching I can call my wife and let her know I'm OK. She worries a lot. Two thumbs up for cell phones.

MY hints are very speific because I hate to rummage around poking around every hole at someone elses cache risking ticks, PI, damaging the woods, and just wasting a lot of time.

If the hint about the cell phone did not make sense to you (I don't see any point encrypting it either but I don't see anything wrong with the concept), why don't you contact the hider and tell him how you feel. He/she might see the light and post it unencrypted.

Alan

July 16, 2002

Maybe the cache owner put that clue in as another clue. I mean, the phone number may be bogus and is actually a clue in itself.

There is a cache here in Fort Collins called "Do We Have A Clue?" and it says, "If you need help, here is a number to call: 831.03208".

I went to the coordinates, and it ended up putting me at the stairs of the local library... I looked around and couldn't find the cache. Then I figured it out. I'm at a library. The phone number looked funny. The name of the cache was a play on words, etc... I was then able to find the cache. This was one of the more fun ones I found.

Maybe the phone number the cache owner listed is posted on a sign near the cache and the hint is taped onto that sign? Or maybe the phone number is an alpha/numeric clue (1=A, 2=B, 3=C, etc)?

However, if it really, really is a cell phone number, I think the cache owner must have eaten one too many "happy" mushrooms on the trail. I would agree with everyone else here about having to call someone for a clue.... Dumb...

July 16, 2002

"Hello, This is Dave and I am not near my phone. leave a message after the beep.

If you are a Geocacher, I have two things to say to you:

First - Hahahahahahahah! you idjut!

Second - don't go barking up the wrong tree!"

BEEEEEP!

Hint: "Call me on my cell phone if you need help"

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