Approval Strictness

[+Rocky Balboa]

Just wondering, has any one else had problems with getting caches approved recently? I am totally for the no advertising, nothing you wouldn't want your kids to see etc rules dont get me wrong but i recently had a page turned down because it included a pub name (i wasn't plugging it just mentioned they served nice beer there as simple as that) and Pid got one turned down because of the same sort of thing. I have altered my page and since had it approved but its just a hassle that i dont understand why some of us get? i never aim to go against the rules, i agree with them and don't believe i actually did go against them, ah well nevermind, stop winging i hear you all groan

 

Dan Wilson - www.Buckscaching.co.uk

[+Slytherin]

This one has come up before when a UK cache was denied approval because it contained reference to an ice cream van that was in the corner of the closest car park to the cache.

 

I though we had got it over to the geocache police in the US that the UK has a different culture to the US and having a drink at the local pub after finding a cache is almost a compulsory part of the game here.

 

This kind of interference does nothing to encourage the expansion of geocaching in the UK and what makes it all the more irritating is that a quick google search reveals that the word McDonalds appears over 400 times on pages in the geocacging.com site. Starbucks is there 125 times and Jeep appears no less than 1290 times. Pages are littered with references to Wal-Mart , Kinko's

 

This cache

http://www.geocaching.com/seek/cache_details.aspx?ID=24281

contains no less than four trade mark names in its description. The site is stuffed to the gills with caches that mention trade names and businesses and how did this one ever managed to get approved?

http://www.geocaching.com/seek/cache_details.aspx?ID=32572

 

Get real you guys over there. Mentioning in a cache description that the pub round the corner from the cache does great steak pie and chips does not make it a COMMERCIAL cache. It's meant to be trying to help and inform potential cache seekers. To quote the cache guidelines "Geocaching is supposed to be a light, fun activity". There is a danger that the pursuit of "commercial correctness" is going to negate that goal.

 

Anyway, can't stop, I'm away down to the White Bear in Birstall where the Tetley's Bitter is exceptionally good and the Beef Pie in Guinness is wonderful.

 

Cheers

Alex.

[dpstevens]

I'm not sure the "Approval Police" are out to get us. Last week I had a cache with

 

"The Harbour Inn nearby serves a wonderful pint of Adnams and great pub fayre."

 

in the description approved quickly with no problem. I hasten to add I have no connection with the place although I visit the area (and the pub) a three or four times a year.

[+Chris n Maria]

We didn't have any trouble with "if you need refreshment - try the Old Inn just down the road which does lovely food and Beer."

 

Though I do tend to leave my cache descriptions with a small amount of description on them and submit them for approval. I gradually embelish them whilst the cache is waiting approval, so I'm not always sure what the approver sees.

 

Chris

"We're not lost - we just don't know where we are"

London & UK Geocaching Resources: http://www.sheps.clara.net

[+Slytherin]

It's a lack of consistancy that is the problem. If you get your cache approved by a UK approver there seems to be no problem. It's when the guys on the other side of the pond do them that the trouble starts.

 

There are five or six caches INSIDE Disneyland/Disneyworld. How could that be?

 

Alex.

[Ben Pid]

Its shocking, and kind of annoying.

 

Although I do agree there has to be a line we canot cross.

 

Ben Piddington http://www.buckscaching.co.uk

[+The Hornet]

I've had exactly this problem and even after arguing my case with the (US) approver and trying to make him understand what Slytherin says, i.e. pubs are an integral part of British culture, he still demanded that reference and link to the good beer and food at a pub near one of my Dorset caches be removed.

 

It annoys me as well that references to the likes of McD, etc. are accepted without question but mention "The Old Nag's Head" and they come down on you.

 

I guess it's another example of our friends from across the pond not understanding there is a big wide world out there and we do things differently.

 

Don't get me wrong, I have American relatives and have made some wonderful friendships with lots of Americans. I have also found most to be the most open and welcoming of people. It's just that their horizons are worryingly narrow.

 

As someone once said, I don't remember who, nor would I recommend this approach (!) but what's to stop you editing the cache description after it's been approved?

 

Peter

 

_________________________________________________________

 

It is better to regret something you did, rather than to regret something you didn't do.

[+jeremyp]

quote:

---

Originally posted by The Hornet:

 

As someone once said, I don't remember who, nor would I recommend this approach (!) but what's to stop you editing the cache description after it's been approved?

 

---

 

Theoretically, they monitor the cache pages after they are posted, but the system probably depends on cachers posting complaints.

 

I do have a certain amount of sympathy with the approvers. I mean most of us would have no objection to a recommendation to visit a local pub, but what if it turned out that the cache placer was the landlord or a friend of the landlord? The approver obviously can't tell so they apply the rules strictly. Personnally, unless it's extremely obvious that a cache has commercial references in its description e.g. a Macdonald's logo, I would say let it be unless there are a lot of complaints.

 

There are plenty of caches out there which contravene the rules in some way. For example it was commented here recently that lots of caches in Holland are buried which is a clear contravention of the caching guidelines. One of the questions in my Winchester Treasure hunt is inside a cathedral with a (voluntary) entrance fee. A really anal interpretation of the rules would ban that on two counts.

 

Can I suggest that if somebody has a problem getting a cache approved they post it on these forums where we can have a discussion on it and perhaps get our moderators/approvers to ask the Americans to reverse the decision.

 

-------

jeremyp

The second ten million caches were the worst too.

http://www.jeremyp.net/geocaching

[+The Spokes]

http://www.geocaching.com/seek/cache_details.aspx?ID=18423

Even the exact location.

Inconsistent

Keith

 

It's only a foot.

[+The Hornet]

Hmm! You make a very good point Keith. I placed this cache way back in the dim distant past of Geocaching (well March 2002 actually) before I had encountered this particular topic.

 

The reference to the particular establishment was inserted as we had enjoyed ourselves there and wanted to share it with others. We have absolutely no connection with the place nor the owners other than pure enjoyment which we wanted others to experience.

 

Having re-read it I can see absolutely no difference between it and others that have been refused.

 

So - what do I do? I'll leave it up to this great community to guide me. Should I leave it as it is or should I delete the "offending" reference? I'll monitor this thread for a few days to see what people say.

 

Thanks for pointing it out. Peter

 

_________________________________________________________

 

It is better to regret something you did, rather than to regret something you didn't do.

[Ben Pid]

Whoever verified it verified it,,,,if they dont like it anymore then its tough in my opinion.

 

like you say. its hardly advertising, its obviously a great place. Besides that I plan to share it too when I go to Cyprus next year.

 

Leave it be, it sounds like fun.

 

Pid

 

Ben Piddington http://www.buckscaching.co.uk

[L8 Ed]

Be Careful

Be careful how you deal with this as it could set a president. A future argument may go something like If a cacher like the Hornet can then why cant I. As the Game gets bigger then it may well be worth a free meal or a pint in a pub to give the exact location of the establishment on the cache page. I’m sure at the moment it is not viable to do this, but who knows what he future may hold.

 

I after placing the cache I went to sweaty Betty’s Fish Shop at N51 25 45 W 001 25 36 for the best fish and chips I ever have had.

This may well be helpful to a hungry cacher but if it was placed buy Sweaty Betty herself then its advertising.

 

But how would you know that, if the cacher was called Toddington for example.

 

I am fairly confident that The Hornet innocently mentioned this place and has no ulterior motive, and just wanted to share the experience with others. But lets just say for argument, it turned out to be his favorite nephews place, what then?

I would say leave it as it is for now but be careful in future.

[+TheCat]

I was going to run another Geocache Fox Hunt that was going to cover the whole of the UK the weekend before Children in Need, but it was turned down because 1, I wanted to raise a bit of cash for Children in Need. 2, The person turning it down said that Geocache Fox Hunting had nothing to do with Geocaching ie: you do not need a GPS to do it. Also that it was an event that members of the public would be involved with. I tried to explain but in the end gave up. I did let them have the details of the First Geocache Fox Hunt but to no avail.

 

Regards Mark

 

Mark (TheCat)

 

www.geocacheuk.com

[el10t]

Hi Mark

I can fully understand your concerns. This seems like a totally wrong decision on the approver's part.

 

quote:

---

1, I wanted to raise a bit of cash for Children in Need.

---

What a ridiculous decision by the approver! What is wrong with raising money for charity? I know past caches do not set precedents but how about D&Ps charity cache or Tim & Junes Gulliver bear TB? I am sure neither has received a single complaint from anyone.

quote:

---

2, The person turning it down said that Geocache Fox Hunting had nothing to do with Geocaching ie: you do not need a GPS to do it.

---

The approver obviously hasn't a clue what the hunt involves. They obviously didn't read Team Tates cache page. Are they doing no research? Maybe this means they will no longer be approving any "locationless" caches.

quote:

---

Also that it was an event that members of the public would be involved with.

---

I am rendered totally speechless by this. We are all members of the public. Is the approver trying to keep this pastime limited to a select few who look at the geocaching.com site? Outrageous reason for turning down the cache.

quote:

---

I tried to explain but in the end gave up. I did let them have the details of the First Geocache Fox Hunt but to no avail.

---

Don't give up - try and get it put on the "Should this cache be posted?" forum

 

Rich

mobilis in mobili

[+Slytherin]

quote:

---

Originally posted by Mark C Thompson:

I was going to run another Geocache Fox Hunt that was going to cover the whole of the UK the weekend before Children in Need, but it was turned down because 1, I wanted to raise a bit of cash for Children in Need. 2, The person turning it down said that Geocache Fox Hunting had nothing to do with Geocaching ie: you do not need a GPS to do it. Also that it was an event that members of the public would be involved with. I tried to explain but in the end gave up. I did let them have the details of the First Geocache Fox Hunt but to no avail.

 

Regards Mark

 

Mark (TheCat)

 

http://www.geocacheuk.com

If there is no support or understanding from the geocaching.com heierarcy in the US then perhaps you can use geocacheuk.com to organise the hunt.

 

It would be a shame if their unwillingness to approve causes us to look elsewhere to organise geocaching activities in the UK, but if that's what it takes, then it might have to come to that.

 

Alex.

[+The Hornet]

quote:

---

Originally posted by Mark C Thompson:

I was going to run another Geocache Fox Hunt that was going to cover the whole of the UK the weekend before Children in Need,

http://www.geocacheuk.com

 

This is absolutely intolerable.

 

Who in their right mind could object to this activity. To my mind this "event/cache" is a superb example of how geocaching can benefit the wider community and should receive special prominence, not banning.

 

This has got to be taken further and at least should be posted on the "Should this be approved" thread. In the mean time post details on geocacheuk

 

As Slytherin says "Is this the beginning of the end?" I sense a split developing between the US "heirarchy" and ordinary UK cachers. Maybe I'm wrong but I fear not. This sort of pettiness can only hasten such a split and should not be allowed to happen. One of the benefits of geocaching up to now has been its innocent, truly international appeal.

 

We cannot let this be destroyed without a fight. The "heirarchy" must be made to understand that one country's traditions are not necessarily shared by the rest of the world and everyone's point of view should be respected.

 

_________________________________________________________

 

It is better to regret something you did, rather than to regret something you didn't do.

[Jeremy]

I'll sort it out with the approvers and let them know that the UK sites will be approved by UK folks. I'll see how I can segment them out so they are only approved by locals. Cool?

 

I don't think there is any real malice here. We have a bunch of different approvers with different perceptions so some are approved when some are not.

 

Jeremy Irish

Groundspeak - The Language of Location

[+Slytherin]

quote:

---

Originally posted by Jeremy Irish:

I'll sort it out with the approvers and let them know that the UK sites will be approved by UK folks.

Jeremy Irish

Groundspeak - The Language of Location

---

Thanks Jeremy. That's just what was needed.

 

Alex.

[+The Hornet]

Sense at last and faith restored

 

Well done Jeremy, I think that should allay any fears some of us had. I'm sure local approvers will have a much better appreciation of what is "acceptable" this side of the pond. Thanks.

 

As an aside, has this concern been raised elsewhere in the world and if so, with what result?

 

_________________________________________________________

 

It is better to regret something you did, rather than to regret something you didn't do.

[el10t]

Knickers duly untwisted.

 

Thanks for the positive reply Jeremy.

 

Rich

mobilis in mobili

[Ben Pid]

HAIL JEREMY!

 

I agree that it was ludicrus about the Children in need fox hunt, That was slap bang out of order. Especially after the guy who painted the hounds with the horse thing right by the cache...LoL..Who else saw that in the paper?

 

Thanks to Jeremy's positive output we can now look forward to all UK caches with traditional British pubs nearby and charity orientations being approved.

 

Incidently though, I add that the nearest eating establishment to Dan and Pid's Pit stop charity cache is actually a Maccy Donalds! LoL......Ironic to say the least!.

 

Cheers Jeremy.

 

Pid

 

Ben Piddington http://www.buckscaching.co.uk

[+Rocky Balboa]

Sounds like a smashing idea Jeremy thanx. As for my Charity cache, no, no one has questioned it so i dont see a problem with a cache for children in need either.

 

Just for everyones information who has visited, the cache has raised quite a bit now i see after a resent revisit when i checked up on it. So either who ever visits next can drop it off in a charity box or I will. I only ask if someone else does it, that they take a pic of the money being dropped off! this is just so no one starts to wonder as to the where about of the money! I will do the same if its me. I will then post a little note on the cache page stating the contributors names and how much we raised

 

(Sorry, this wasn't meant as an advertisment and i will gladly delete the post if there is any problem)

 

Dan Wilson - www.Buckscaching.co.uk

[+TheCat]

Hi Guys & Gals,

 

Many thanks for the e-mails etc in support of the Children in Need Cache. Tim & June have said thay will try to sort it out for me. I will post details on geocacheuk.com this weekend. Your support is most welcome and the cache will now take place on the weekend before Children in Need. I will contact the BBC and let them know it is now on. You never know thay might give Geocaching in the UK some publicity. I just hoped that I would be able to post it on geocaching.com. This might be the case lets hope so.

 

Mark (TheCat)

 

www.geocacheuk.com

[+jeremyp]

quote:

---

Originally posted by Geo Weasel:

HAIL JEREMY!

 

Thanks to Jeremy's positive output we can now look forward to all UK caches with traditional British pubs nearby and charity orientations being approved.

---

Perhaps it should be compulsory to post details of the nearest pub to your cache.

quote:

---

Incidently though, I add that the nearest eating establishment to Dan and Pid's Pit stop charity cache is actually a Maccy Donalds! LoL......Ironic to say the least!.

---

I've had lunch there on at least two occasions while looking for caches in the area.

 

-------

jeremyp

The second ten million caches were the worst too.

http://www.jeremyp.net/geocaching

[Team Tate]

When Sarah showed me the post about the next Fox Hunt I couldn't believe it. I totally agree with El1ots comments.

 

We had this bother with the Carlton (whoops - advertising) feature: Too many blinkered people wanting to keep Geocaching for themselves . So what is the public can take part? I was 'public' once!

 

Rant over.

 

I'm just very glad that The Main Man (hail oh Mr Irish) has taken charge of this matter. Hopefully, this blinkered approach of certain people can be scrubbed out once and for all. I can only hope that this individual gets a chance to realise how upset he (or she) has made us.

 

Team Tate

 

Remember - if it's moving, it's not dead...

[+Richard & Beth]

quote:

---

Originally posted by Mark C Thompson:

I will post details on geocacheuk.com this weekend. Your support is most welcome and the cache will now take place on the weekend before Children in Need. I will contact the BBC and let them know it is now on. You never know thay might give Geocaching in the UK some publicity.

---

 

So is this going to be a Pudsey Bear hunt rather than a fox hunt?

 

Indeed, is whoever will be the 'fox' going to dress up as Pudsey?!?

 

Richard

[+TheCat]

Now there is an idea. But and there is always a but, As I am going to be the fox and also driving well over 2,000 miles in three days it might get a bit sticky. In fact so much so you would be able to smell me comming.

 

But the car will be, how shall I say it, noticable.

 

Oh by the way the provisional route has now been posted on www.geocacheuk.com

 

Also if there is someone in the Yorkshire area who would like to come along for the trip please let me know you will be most welcome.

 

Mark (TheCat)

 

www.geocacheuk.com

[+Richard & Beth]

quote:

---

Originally posted by Mark C Thompson:

Oh by the way the provisional route has now been posted on http://www.geocacheuk.com

 

---

 

Just taken a look at your route, looks like you'll have a long weekend. I'm sure the effort will be rewarded with a suitably large amount of money for CIN, certainly most geocachers in the country should be able to find you at some point!

 

Incidentally, rather than sleeping in the car, I'm sure there are enough of us with a spare bed/sofa/floor that you can use on your way round. Certainly we live fairly close to part of the route out from London, so if you're passing at the right time you're welcome to borrow our sofa for a few hours.

 

Regards,

 

Richard

[+Lost in Space]

quote:

---

Originally posted by Richard & Beth:

Incidentally, rather than sleeping in the car, I'm sure there are enough of us with a spare bed/sofa/floor that you can use on your way round.

---

 

Hear, Hear!

 

Mark, if you need a bed, or a shower even, around the M25/A1(M) area let me know.

 

Neil

[Moss Trooper]

Mark..

 

If yer need a break an sit doon.. yer can always drop in on moi fer a coffee etc.

 

Moss de Boss... Sorta

[+TheCat]

Thanks to all of you who have offered me somewhere to stay on the trip if you could let me have contact details to mark@geocacheuk.com I will contact you all directley as soon as I work out the milages etc and where I plan to be each night.

 

I hope this does not count as an advertisment but the Children in Need fox hunt cache has now been approved. mainley with the intervention of Tin & June. Thw waypoint number is GC9824.

 

Mark (TheCat)

 

www.geocacheuk.com