Best current GPS unit for Geocaching

[+Fiver1]

I've been away for several years due to a couple of surgeries but I'm ready to get back to it. I have my old Montana 800 and am curious what the current unit would be that is equivalent.

Thanks for replies.

 

[+ecanderson]

2 hours ago, Fiver1 said:

I have my old Montana 800 ...

 

Prototype?

 

[Keystone]

I moved this thread from the General Geocaching Topics forum section.

[robertlipe]

See the thread from just a few days ago:
 

But there's a reality that GPSes don't degrade (well, unless you left batteries in it while recovering) and Garmin's out of ideas. If you were happy with your Montana, it should still work as well as it ever did. The new units might be better in some super incremental ways, but there aren't huge differences in the actual player experience. It's not like tracking 38 SVs instead of 32 is going to help you much when the placer hid it with a phone and mistyped the coordinates when listing the cache page.

Sure, the touch screen on an Oregon 600 is more responsive and the UX faster than that of an Oregon 400 (both models are discontinued, emphasizing my point...) but it's not like you're going to have 10% more fun replacing hardware that's a few generations back. If you're suitably determined, you can put aerial imagery on units that are 18 years old. Any of the Montanas (hint, there wasn't an 800) were pretty high-end devices, so as a fellow patient, my advice would be to get back on your feet responsibly, go outside, and play!
 

 

Edited May 5 by robertlipe
Adding prose.

[+Fiver1]

I apologize.  Mine is actually  the Montana 600.

Edited May 10 by Fiver1

[+Atlas Cached]

10 hours ago, Fiver1 said:

I apologize.  Mine is actually  the Montana 600.

 

To partially answer your original question,  there are no current models equivalent to the Montana 6x0 series.

[capt caper]

On 5/9/2024 at 10:14 PM, Fiver1 said:

I apologize.  Mine is actually  the Montana 600.

I own 2 600's. Now own a 700 and would take a 700 anyday over the 600. If money isn't an issue go for a 700. Large but fit's in my shirt pocket or pack. Battery life is amazing if setup right to record all day. 

[+PeoriaBill]

Hello,

The advice you have been given is good.  If it was taken care of it will work just fine. So, if you want a newer GPS, it will be because you want a newer one. A couple of things to refresh your memory:  The 600 was the base model in this series.  It has a base map and receives only GPS and WAAS signals. This unit only stores 4,000 waypoints per Garmin and uses 3AA batteries. I do not believe it is compatible with .ggz files.  If you can tolerate a button GPS I would suggest the GPSMAP 65s. Currently $249 at major retailers. Good luck in making up your mind and welcome back to geocaching.

Edited June 7 by PeoriaBill
wrong battery spec, base map

[robertlipe]

>  600 was the base model 

"Base" can be argued. They've all been derivative of Colorado with that awful "rock and roller" to me. They've all certainly had bugs since that model that haven't been fixed since then. :-(

> I do not believe it is compatible with .ggz

Oregon 600 supported .ggz.  I had a 450 or 550 and bought the 600 (650?) specifically to add ggz support in GPSBabel, which I mostly developed and then threw out because everyone left using "real" computers was either using GSAK - which had its own GGZ support - or just forgetting about ggz and dragging over the GPX's directly and tolerating the multi-minute boot times while it scanned the files on first boot after change. 

> receives only GPS and WAAS

64 and 65 receive at least GLONASS, so if Russia & Suburbs are still in business when the U.S. closes, you're fine. Galileo (Europe) was delayed, so it's new in the 67. QZSS (Japan) and BeiDou (China) are also new enough that they're really only in th elatest chipsets. GLONASS has been around for a while and is actually useful even outside of former Bloc countries.

These are nits to an overall good answer to the question, Bill. Accept my thumbs-up.

Without any personal experience with any of the contemporary units (my days of needing 130+ GPS are over), but plenty of GPS experience in the lab and on the trail, my own personal preferences would:

Cross off Montana 7xx as too big. That's more than a pocketful and a dedicated $800, non-programmable device in 2020 seems crazy. I'm over subscriptions.
Cross off eTrex. Clickstick and tiny screens are for the starters ... with young eyes and fingers. Charter members need not apply. :-)
eTrex Solar is interesting, but isn't meant for me. Ditto Rino, 276C, and anything discontinued. I know how well they support their products that AREN'T discontinued, so there's no reason to tempt fate.
The remainder makes me sad as there's no longer a viable touch screen unit for me. I value a compass on the device.That leaves 64sx, 65s and 67. Really, I don't know why the 64sx still remains unless they have contracts for long-term maintenance on them or something. They're really too close to leave in the marketplace as distinguished hardware. Contrary to the naming convention of 20+ years where "x" meant "x"pandable via memory card, all three of the remaining models take up to 32GB uSD cards. Taking a quick romp at [url=https://www.garmin.com/en-US/compare/?compareProduct=669284&compareProduct=715072&compareProduct=890189]those three[/url]:

64sx -> 65s Doubles the amount of inbuilt flash. + that 16GB is probably "enough". - that you can't take it out to reset the unit when it decides to crash and 20+ years of Garmin experience has taught me that they probably do. That alone might be reason to keep maps and geocaches on the SD card so they can be removed for rebooting and the blame game. uSD are easy to replace when they wear out. Built-in flash isn't. I'll call this a draw between them. Taking a page from the TI school of calculator design, both still have the same 160x240 screen that the original 60C did back in in 2004. :-(

65s->67 Screen update to 240x400. That's almost triple the screen resolution and should approach a megapixel within the next 15 years at this rate! 

65s->67 5k -> 10k waypoints. Unclear if there are decent software tools to MANAGE that volume of waypoints (layers, folders, selection by icons, delete on device,  etc.) or if they just all dump onto the screen and terrorize the performance of draw calls.

65s->67 Several new constellation receivers for less dependence upon "legacy" (established) Space Vehicle networks.

65s->67 Mobile App stuff... do do what your mobile already does, like weather. :-|

65s->67 Inreach and related  (subscription required) features. Personally, I'd use this very rarely, but DO understand that others woiuld value it.

Shopping with my own money, I'd swing the $50 to go from 64SX to 65S just for the doubled memory, even though I said above I may or may not use it. I wouldn't swing yet another hundred above that to add new SV support and Inreach, just given my own needs. As this is a geocaching group and not surveying, I don't expect a lot of excitement about that. I'm the GPSBabel guy and not one person has asked me for "Receiver Independent Exchange Format", so RINEX isn't even on my radar.


Garmin's store on the Big Reseller with an A in their name pushes the 67S Series heavily and doesn't even list geocaching as a primary mode. The 64SX is baffingly $120 MORE than the 65S, which just makes that choice a no-brainer. Ah, one is a refurb. Compare refurbs to refurbs and a 64x and it's $299 vs. $329 for the refurbed 65S. OK. Not changing my mind.

So, yeah, if I had to buy a Garmin today, I'd whine about the disappearance of touch screen models and then trade money for a 65S.

Oh, and I'd probably get a renewed Drive (Nuvi successor) with a lifetime map sub so I never paid for maps again and just kept free OpenStreetMap maps on the handhelds for  help getting into/out of the parks once the car is parked. Even the best in-dash nav systems are still terrible for geocaching, IME. (Yeah, there was an era when Garmin licensed Nuvi-like tech into car stereos, but you couldn't exactly load a PQ into them...)

Others may land in different places, but that's my decision tree, with the work shown.

I might scour yard sales looking for a forgotten Montana 610... Maybe that was the last reasonable-size Garmin with a touch screen. /shruggie.
[b]Edit: I just looked at EBay and saw the four AA's in the 610 sideways ... and still only taking a fraction of the back. Forget that about the Montana being a reasonable sized option for me. (If you have giant hands and pockets, go for it...)[/b]

 

Edited June 7 by robertlipe
Edit: no, Montana 610 wasn't reasonably sized.

[+PeoriaBill]

Not sure why,  but Garmin still updates the maps on the 64sx. With the other 60series models, you have to buy updated maps or download free OSM versions.

[robertlipe]

That's why my strategy is to buy GPSes that include free lifetime map updates that are appropriate for driving, where maps need to be good and use OSM in handsets where "merely OK" is "good enough" - I'm just using that to find my way back to the car or, when I was more mobile, to decide going over or around something between me and an ammo box. Terrain changes  slowly if it's rural enough that you're on foot to start with.

I suspect we (and probably most of the other Charter-era or generally GPS-hungry geeks) have pretty much settled on a similar algorithm by now. I was just showing my work out loud.

My days of paying Garmin infinite money ended well before Garmin forgot that Geocachers existed. :-)

[+Ltljon]

What are the latest Magellan models? My newest is probably an Explorist 500 but geez it takes forever to get signal. I tried a Garmin 64 & Im sure its a great unit but I cant figure it out when Ive had Mags for almost 25 years. I guess my one track mind just wont switch over to that track & I really wish it could.

Any suggestions?

[robertlipe]

7 hours ago, Ltljon said:

What are the latest Magellan models?

Magellan as a company has been bought and sold so many times that there is nobody at the company that exists under that name today (owned by MiTac, of PDA fame.) that remembers the days of them being an innovative leader and the maker of the handhelds you reference.

Explorist 210/[456]00 were machine-transformed versions of the Map330/Meridian heritage, released around the 2004-2005 range, with FAT filesystem bolted on in a little sidecar and just a dash of geocaching thrown in. 

We'll politely forget about Triton between these two points. The rest of the world did. Also in this little intermission we feature two more sales/takeovers that were likely to keep them out of bankruptcy. I can't remember the other, but one was Shah Capital, which is not exactly a tech or navigation company.

Oh, there was another alligator swimming in the waters about this time. Courts decided that Broadcom could enforce a cease and desist on selling the SirfStar III GPS chips, which the 210/x00 units used, because of patent violations. This meant that for some time, they had no chips to put into products. The competition (cough, Garmin, cough) had been using a mixture of SirftStar and Mediatek chips and was able to better weather one supplier disappearing.

Mitac bought them in '08 or so and used their experience with ... PDAs to make Windows Mobile (ugh) versions called the 410/510/610/710 and the Explorist GC. (Unlike a VC fund, they also had a patent portfolio to fight back with..) They were OK to use, but totally unlike everything before them - for better and worse. They had all the performance, reliability, stability of Windows.... in your pocket. Unfortunately for them, the company _badly_ fumbled updates that would brick units, repairs being lost in China, updates that never came, etc. They had some comeback spirit, but these units folded pretty quickly. By probably 2010 or 2011 they were out of manufacture.

Since then, they've messed around with units for offroading (note that link with two units is all) but they've even given up on Automotive . Face it: their most expensive product in 'automotive and outdoor' is a $35 bag, not a GPS.

My first several were Magellans and I really like the gear and the folks at the company, but I'll be honest that it's been 15 years since I've seen a Magellan in use on the trail or fielded even a single request in GPSBabel-land which is still adding many hundreds of users a day. I announced removing the last of the Magellan support a couple of years ago and there wasn't a peep. It's as gone as the rest of the products are. It's not like you can activate Mapsend these days as the required servers don't exist and you can't find a copy of Windows '98 to run them on anyway. (And they only partially supported even '98...) Even if you could, it'd be map data from the 2000 TIGER data set.

As McCoy or Spock would say, "It's dead, Jim."

I see you're one of the few that's been here longer than I have (hey, they took away my charter badge!) but I'd suggest finding a local geocaching group and making friends with some Garmin hunters that hunt like you do (I see you're not a huge powertrail hunter, for example) and get them to make sense to you. The new Garmins have some nice features, but they do have a different "accent". The language is the same: you navigate to a point, you mark the point found, etc.

The days of being able to buy a geocaching GPS are dwindling. The days of being able to buy something that's not a Garmin are over.

Sorry for the tough love.


Somewere on the internet tonight, someone is writing mean things about the companies I helped stoke, so I don't mean to be mean to anyone. I've offered existing citations where they remain, but this is the history as I remember it.

That concluded this edition of storytime with robertlipe...

[+Ltljon]

5 hours ago, robertlipe said:

As McCoy or Spock would say, "It's dead, Jim."

 

First off thanks for the interesting info!!

After posting that I went on Amazon & there was a link to "Magellan Store" & that's what they had, 2 car units! I thought dadgum I been outta touch for a long time!

I could see loving this Garmin 64 but in redneck terms it's like getting off of an Excavator & getting on a Backhoe. Very similar machines but just different enough that I cant make the switch because of what I'm used to.

I see a new Explorist XL listed, is it gonna be similar to the old ones? I loved & still use a 330 & as slow as it is its still faster at obtaining a signal than other/older Explorist I have. May try one but if it's a learning lesson I'll forget it in between the rare times I'll use it!

 

Btw, how did you lose Charter status? You're one of the first & few names I've always seen & remembered on these forums. I'm rarely here anymore but it's always kinda cool to see the "Old Timers" still around after all these years!

Funny thing is (if I remember correctly) my member number when I signed up was 20K something. Used to be it would show when you hovered over your name I think? You may know but Id be curious to hear how many have come & gone since then.

 

[+geodarts]

>>The days of being able to buy a geocaching GPS are dwindling. The days of being able to buy something that's not a Garmin are over. >>
 

Has anyone had the curiosity to try a Chinese handheld, such as the BHC units that are sometimes advertised as being equivalent to Garmin or Explorist models? None of them has built in geocaching functions but they seem to support gpx so there is that.  
 

I am not suggesting that any of these would be cost effective or offer the range of satellites as other garmin models.  And I am not sure what the $86 A6 unit can do.  But is China the last of the Garmin handheld competitors?

 

 

Edited June 15 by geodarts

[+Atlas Cached]

4 hours ago, geodarts said:

But is China the last of the Garmin handheld competitors?

 

LOL.

 

Hardly.

 

Unfortunately,  there is no competition. 

[robertlipe]

>  Amazon & there was a link to "Magellan Store"

Yeah, that's just embarrassing for them. Maybe I underestimate the size of the dune buggy market, but $468 for hardware that specializes in that seems pretty nutty. Of course, they're probably saying that $349 to chase tupperware in the woods is crazy, too. (It is, but thta's the price it is and with no viable competition left, they're going to get that amount as long as there are geocachers that can't stand caching with phones.) The reviews are largely murderous. FWIW, in GPSBabel-land we get requests for all kinds of weird stuff but never once have we had a request to support these. Maybe they hock up perfectly lovely GPX that works in everything (yay!) but given how harsh the comments are on it, that be the rare subsystem that they nailed.

> just different enough that I cant make the switch

At some point, you'll run out of rotary phones to keep buying and you'll have to adopt that newfangled touch tone fone. :-)

FWIW, when I started, it was originally to get AWAY from computers. (So I end up working on some of the world's most used GPS software. Guess that backfired...)  There was a time I did every cache I could just so I didn't have to drive 200 miles to hunt SOMETHING. I found that the ability to just ignore caches of certain type (puzzles, multis) let me spend a lot less time screwing with tech and more time chasign the arrow. Sure, knowing how to use the GPS as a map is insanely useful, but just following an arrow until. you trip over a cache has a lot going for it for me.  I don't WANT to understand how to compute projections and rejigger multi coordinates and all that. (I _can_. I don't _want_ to.) So maybe just choosing different cache types helps keep it fun for you when you're hunting with hardware you're less familiar with.

You said you had a 500. Just as a simple example, that unit (like the 400 and the 600 that bracket it) uses a super weirdo cable that doesn't exist anywhere else in the industry and they were kinda crappy even 15 years ago. If one breaks, you might be looking for someone with a 3D printer, a set of calipers, a soldering iron, a small PCB, and a set of pogo pins to make you a new one. Garmins at least got over their proprietary cables and while Mini-B is no longer common, there are at least eleventy billion old cell phone cables around to help fill that hole. Those Nokia cell phone batteries aren't going to be able to be found forever and if you have the AAA clip that's not broken, you may have a rarity. You've presumably learned that the software works badly, if at all, on any computer you'd sensibly consider usable these days. I mean, even if you had '98 and XP on a VM on a Real Computer, the maps are ancient, the CD-ROM copy-projection has to be removed because you can't find a CD any more, and their stuff that requires activation is trying to call home to a home that's been swept away by climate change.

> I see a new Explorist XL listed, is it gonna be similar to the old ones?

LOL @ "new". Explorist XL is basically an overgrown 500. It's even called that in the last entry of the Explorist FAQs (that I thought I linked to before) written some 15 years ago by a very wise man. (Though I think this one DOES take AA's instead of AAA's, so I might be wrong on that line.)  So that might be "new" as in "still in the box", but it's far from a current device. Like I said, the company that built that model was essentially gone at least two bankruptcies/sales ago.


Oh, wait. 
 

Date First Available	August 25, 2003

I'm actually skeptical of that. 60C and 60Cx were Jan of 2004 and 2006, respectively.

Oh, but they say it was built by Thales, which I'm certain isn't right.

No, I think this listing is off in the weeds. Someone copy/pasted a bit too much. I just really don't think these were available in 2003. I was a winner of their little contest where they gave these away in a region (I published a recorded minute-by-minute breakdown of the hunt and called "foul" - months later, I was contacted with my "prize".) and I remember trying to impress one specific user of Google Maps in the era when Google Maps wasn't meant for such things because that user was later going to become my grand-boss at Google. No way was that 2003. I'm sticking with January (GPSes were announced at CES then) of 2005.

>  is it gonna be similar to the old ones? 

Define "old" when we're talking about a 19 year old GPS? :-) Similar to your 2005 operationally? Almost identical. Similar to 330/Meridian? Since you have both, I'll let you form your own answer, but they're very closely related. The UI and core functions were mechanically transofrmed from those models of the previous century. SD card, Geocaching and file/save were so lightly bolted on that the "files" stored on the SD cards are actually NMEA sentences (!!) that are saved and loaded the same way they did the serial files. So there wasn't exactly "big brain" engineering going into that aspect of these. A user of a Map330 would feel like they were sitting a different model of the same piece of heavy equipment you cited earlier than a different one.

> a 330 ... still faster at obtaining a signal than other/older Explorist I have.

330 is pretty impressive that it survived (after some firmware updates) both the '99 and the '19 GPS week 1024 rollover. That killed a lot of them dead and left a lot of models needing to catch the whole almanac (~15-20 minutes) before first fix. I'm nto sure which you're comparing here or how slow is "slow", so I'll let that go.

>  how did you lose Charter

IMO, I didn't. I've been here almost forever - or as close to "forever" as counts for Charter. I think they just screwed up the forum software not realizing that you can be both a mod (a badge I long resisted, though I just got a card that said I've been a mod officially now for 15 years...even though I didn't get invited to a recent volunteer gathering, either, grrrr.) AND a Charter. So that's internal dirty laundry.

> always kinda cool to see the "Old Timers" 

Not a lot of us from 2001 that are still active. Southpaw, Show Me the Cache and a few other are still on the trail - and stay off the forum. :-)

>  my member number when I signed up was 20K something

Seems legit.  Mine UID is/was just under 32,768. I remember that because 32,768 is a computer number. (That's the precise number behind "32k".)

They make it harder to find now to make it harder for people to guess how many users they have.

> Id be curious to hear how many have come & gone s

Hard to tell. Someone may be missing for a year and then log in tomorrow. Someone else may be missing for a year and then have an anniversary of their funeral tomorrow. So the "and gone" part of that is hard.  However, accordign to https://newsroom.geocaching.com/fast-facts and the related infographic, there's mention of a player group "7 million strong". How many of those never make an account or make an account, hunt one day and give up or whatever? I have no idea.

Keep on trying to make friends with that Garmin!

Oh, and Geodarts. Just LOLNO. :-) Look at how hard they tried to rip the form factors and even colors of the respective Garmin and Magellan gear. Remember what I said abotu "no requests in GPSBabel"? Definitely true on those, too.

Later

 

[+Fiver1]

The main reason I posted this is that the rubber buttons on my Montana are breaking down and the on off one has fallen out.

I haven't contacted Garmin to see if a fix is available.