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Newest Caches ignores Events


gramakitty
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I contacted HQs support and they’re looking at my input but suggested that I share here to get feedback from other Geocachers. 
When I click on Newest Caches on the Geo homepage, it doesn’t include events. I understand that events are available for a limited time, but I also know that many new Geocachers aren’t even aware of events. I believe events help newbies get connected with their Geo community and improve their knowledge and skills about the game. I’d like to see events included in the newest caches search link on the homepage. 

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Yes, you can do a typical search and filter for events, but that’s assuming you know about events and are taking time to do a search. 
 

I’m referring to the quick search from the homepage that brings up newest caches near you. It’s a wonderful quick tool, but doesn’t include events. 

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4 hours ago, RuideAlmeida said:

You can simply apply a Filter for Events to your search.

 

It's actually even easier than that - you only need to click the "X" on the "Geocache Type" filter to remove it, so that all the upcoming events will appear at the top of the list.  (Of course, a new geocacher needs to *know* that they can do this.)

 

A parallel feature request would be to ask for more visibility for events in the official Geocaching Smartphone apps.  Since many new users become aware of geocaching through the app - many barely understand that there's also a website - a button or link in the app to "show upcoming events nearby" would help to create awareness.

 

Regardless of whether a new geocacher becomes aware of event caches through the website or their smartphone app, increasing visibility is a good thing.  I agree with the OP that events are critical to connecting newcomers to their local community, which in turn helps convert "casual users" into "rabid geocachers."

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1 hour ago, Keystone said:

 

It's actually even easier than that - you only need to click the "X" on the "Geocache Type" filter to remove it, so that all the upcoming events will appear at the top of the list.  (Of course, a new geocacher needs to *know* that they can do this.)

 

A parallel feature request would be to ask for more visibility for events in the official Geocaching Smartphone apps.  Since many new users become aware of geocaching through the app - many barely understand that there's also a website - a button or link in the app to "show upcoming events nearby" would help to create awareness.

 

Regardless of whether a new geocacher becomes aware of event caches through the website or their smartphone app, increasing visibility is a good thing.  I agree with the OP that events are critical to connecting newcomers to their local community, which in turn helps convert "casual users" into "rabid geocachers."

 

Missing her point - Yes, it's EASY to include events by unchecking the filter, but you have KNOW ABOUT that and be unafraid of changing settings.

Many new people, knowing nothing about search parameters and filters and EVENTS, miss out on seeing them when they stop by and search for stuff nearby, and that's when it's most important that they SEE events, being 'new' and all.

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First, let's agree that events are not caches, so "newest caches" can't include events. But, then, let's consider what I think is the meat of your proposal: events are as important as caches, so the box should say "newest caches and pending events" and show the list you propose. OK, in that context, I see your point, but I'd still say that Newest Caches alone is more important and more what someone depending on the home page would want. So let's consider a third possibility: adding an "events" quick search next to the newest caches search. As much as I appreciate your arguments in favor of events, I'd have to say that, even so, I still consider events somewhat obscure, so I wouldn't think they were important enough for their own special search, although GS might be convinced otherwise.

 

There's some validity in the moderator's responses, but in general I think they're making the same mistake as is common from GS employees and pseudo-employees: you're not saying that it would be useful to *you* to have events shown more readily -- that's what they're suggesting -- you're saying that you think it is important to other people: those not as familiar with geocaching and how to do geocaching searches as you are. TeamRabbitRun made this same point. I agree it's an important point, but, in the end, I personally don't think events are important enough to make this argument, although it would make perfect sense to me if GS where convinced by them.

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8 minutes ago, dprovan said:

I think they're making the same mistake as is common from GS employees and pseudo-employees

Explain to me how my post about new geocachers -- agreeing with the OP, and making additional suggestions beyond what OP asked for -- is making a mistake?  I found your assessment of my post to be a disrespectful insult.  To be crystal clear, I think it's a fine idea to feature events more prominently in both the homepage search and the official Apps.  It makes my job as a Reviewer easier when a new hider is better informed about hiding caches, and becoming integrated in the local community helps to make that happen.  And when I say "job," I mean volunteer work.  I am NOT a "pseudo-employee."

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19 minutes ago, dprovan said:

First, let's agree that events are not caches

So give us your definition of a cache and we might or might not agree, but at the moment I don't...


Back to the OP: If Events were to be included on that search then GS would have to:

  • Filter out past events. Currently that search for me has about a dozen past events on the first 6 pages of the list, which would be pointless and probably confusing to newbies.
  • Filter out future events, or at least events more than XX days in the future. At the moment the first 4 pages of that list is for caches which are in the future, some 3 months away. Having to scroll through pages (5 for me) of events which are months away before getting to the "real" caches is undesirable.

 

Given that there's a whole section for upcoming nearby events on the Dashboard I don't see adding them to the search list would be beneficial.

 

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29 minutes ago, MartyBartfast said:
1 hour ago, dprovan said:

First, let's agree that events are not caches

So give us your definition of a cache and we might or might not agree, but at the moment I don't...

How about:

 

cache - A newbie can pull up the listing and find something right now.

event - A newbie can pull up the listing and meet other geocachers at some point in the future.

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On 11/18/2022 at 12:58 PM, MartyBartfast said:

So give us your definition of a cache and we might or might not agree, but at the moment I don't...

A cache is what a new person thinks geocaching is all about: a hidden container with a log on it. Events are something people learn about later. And some geocachers -- but only some -- decide to attend events after they learn about them.

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5 hours ago, dprovan said:

A cache is what a new person thinks geocaching is all about: a hidden container with a log on it.

I can see that, and almost relate to it, but then we'd have to agree that Earthcaches, Virtual and Labs aren't caches either, and I think the game would be poorer without them and events- Labs excluded as I consider them to be a different game altogether.

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17 hours ago, MartyBartfast said:

I can see that, and almost relate to it, but then we'd have to agree that Earthcaches, Virtual and Labs aren't caches either, and I think the game would be poorer without them and events- Labs excluded as I consider them to be a different game altogether.

Your comment is so far from my original point and the original topic that I'm not sure how to react. I certainly didn't mean to imply anything negative about events or other types of caches.

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On 11/18/2022 at 3:58 PM, MartyBartfast said:

Given that there's a whole section for upcoming nearby events on the Dashboard I don't see adding them to the search list would be beneficial.

 

OK, I found it in the New Dashboard.  Cool.  Is it useful?  (I'm asking seriously).

The first thing I noticed was there is just one upcoming Event in my dashboard (and it's in this month).  I have a specially made website bookmark for upcoming events, and there are 6 upcoming Events shown.  Is the Dashboard showing just the current month?  I use my web bookmark for planning well in advance.

 

If people are not getting results showing all upcoming Events, and if they want that, all I did was make a search filter from my location, radius of 100 miles, and just selected "Events".  Yes, it shows past Events that are not yet archived.  I might like to hide past Events, if that could be done.  Anyway, once it was just about right, I made it a web bookmark.  But there are only those 6 within a distance I might consider driving, and it's a rather static list. I've never had the problem of surprise Events showing up all around me as I travel.  Which may be what the OP is about?  If it's all of the above but "for the newbies", not all Events are good for "community, knowledge, and skills".  I hosted an Event last month that was just "go to lunch and chat", with Geocachers.  Everyone's invited, but there was no particular presentation for newbies.

 

If the OP is about "Geocaching 101" Events, I agree that those might be good Events to highlight in some way.  If it's to help the newbies.  Not saying most Events are no good, just that some are almost essential for learning all about the basics of Geocaching in a local area.

 

Edited by kunarion
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On 11/18/2022 at 3:58 PM, MartyBartfast said:

If Events were to be included on that search then GS would have to:

  • Filter out past events. Currently that search for me has about a dozen past events on the first 6 pages of the list, which would be pointless and probably confusing to newbies.
  • Filter out future events, or at least events more than XX days in the future. At the moment the first 4 pages of that list is for caches which are in the future, some 3 months away. Having to scroll through pages (5 for me) of events which are months away before getting to the "real" caches is undesirable.

 

I did a search around where I guess your area is, and wow!  There are a bahzillion (give or take)!  Where I live, I see 6 within 100 miles.  And there was a ton of scrolling through your list before the first "active" Event was shown.  I didn't look at the dates, but a lot in your region are 3 or more months in advance, so maybe things aren't so disparate after all, it's just that where I live people don't publish Events all that far in advance.

 

Anyway, yeah, somehow the Events will need to be curated in a way that doesn't overwhelm the newbies that supposedly benefit from such lists.  If I'm looking at "Events" and notice one "today", that's too late for me, especially if it's 100 miles away (may be OK for everyone else, whatever).  I'd prefer to be shown Events at least a week or so in advance.

 

Is there a compelling reason to not archive one's Event after a week or so?  I archived mine the following day.  Sure, mine was extremely unpopular, so I immediately knew when everyone had made their Attended logs (why keep it clogging the list after that?), but I'm wondering in general.  How long does it really take to make logs on Events?

 

Edited by kunarion
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32 minutes ago, kunarion said:

OK, I found it in the New Dashboard.  Cool.  Is it useful?  (I'm asking seriously).

The first thing I noticed was there is just one upcoming Event in my dashboard (and it's in this month).  I have a specially made website bookmark for upcoming events, and there are 6 upcoming Events shown.  Is the Dashboard showing just the current month?  I use my web bookmark for planning well in advance.

 

The dashboard event widget shows the preceding month and following month as well as the current month, using the < and > buttons either side of the month name, and its search radius can be customised with the settings (gear symbol) button. The maximum radius is 100km (I think that's about 60 miles). Ones that you've logged a WA on turn green which I guess is a good reminder.

 

I occasionally use it to see what's on around here, although I generally first hear about events in the local FB groups.

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5 hours ago, kunarion said:

Is it useful?  (I'm asking seriously).


I find it useful and  I have the max range of 100km, as that then covers both home and work for me. 

I can see at a glance:

  • Days with events scheduled - faint red.
  • Select any day and see all the events listed on that day.
  • Days with events you've logged a Will Attend are green.



image.thumb.png.180f9968afbfb4692fef88c64abc32ec.png

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8 hours ago, baer2006 said:

Does this even matter in this context? It's perfectly possible to post logs on archived listings. 

 

So why aren't they archived in a timely fashion?  Is it to show that there are/were cool Events around here?  I noticed that my Event vanished when I archived it, and I can see how that could annoy people who wish to still see it listed.  Extra work to open the [non]-cache to see who attended or to look for remaining TBs or whatever.   At least they must see it to log it.  Maybe these remain merely to help someone figure out which Events have already happened that one intended to attend.  "I have this weekend off, so when is X Event?  Ah, it was last week."

 

Knowing an Event has passed probably isn't what the OP is asking.  Not sure.  I still think maybe highlighting some choice upcoming Events is the way to go, as opposed to listing everything past and present.

 

Edited by kunarion
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Many geocachers, especially newcomers, don't know how to hunt down and log an archived cache.  Therefore, past events stay active until archived by the event host OR one month later, when the past event is archived automatically by a bot hamster at Geocaching HQ.  One month seems to have worked.

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12 hours ago, baer2006 said:
13 hours ago, kunarion said:

Is there a compelling reason to not archive one's Event after a week or so? 

 [...]

How long does it really take to make logs on Events?

Does this even matter in this context? It's perfectly possible to post logs on archived listings. 

 

It becomes a bit harder to log once it's archived. Archived caches can't be logged in the app, as far as I know, and even on the website you'd need to know the GC code or find a link to it (perhaps in the owner's profile if you know who the host was). I archive mine once everyone who signed the physical log has logged online and any trackables that were logged into the event have been logged out, but the system now auto-archives events after 30 days so many people just let that handle it.

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1 hour ago, Keystone said:

Many geocachers, especially newcomers, don't know how to hunt down and log an archived cache.  Therefore, past events stay active until archived by the event host OR one month later, when the past event is archived automatically by a bot hamster at Geocaching HQ.  One month seems to have worked.


Makes sense.  I archived mine and it vanished from the list.  I mean, of course it does, but it was still a shock.

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On 11/17/2022 at 9:23 PM, gramakitty said:

I contacted HQs support and they’re looking at my input but suggested that I share here to get feedback from other Geocachers. 
When I click on Newest Caches on the Geo homepage, it doesn’t include events. I understand that events are available for a limited time, but I also know that many new Geocachers aren’t even aware of events. I believe events help newbies get connected with their Geo community and improve their knowledge and skills about the game. I’d like to see events included in the newest caches search link on the homepage. 

 

As you see in previous replies, Events are treated by the site differently from other caches, and a lot of it is due to Events being strictly related to a date and time.  
 

If Events show up, for example, on the day of the Event, that’s a little late for people to plan for them.  Yet an Event isn’t a New Cache until that day.

 

What if Newest Caches were to incorporate the Event calendar from the New Dashboard?  Maybe in a separate column?

 

Edited by kunarion
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