Public / Premium cache spacing

[obbig60]

I would like to create a few new public (open) geocaches.  As a basic member I can see that there are lots of premium caches in my area but I can't see exactly where they are.  So I could go to the trouble of setting up a new public cache only to have it refused because it was too close to an existing premium one.   Can the spacing requirements be overridden if the caches are of different types?

Any advice would be much appreciated.

[+Max and 99]

2 hours ago, obbig60 said:

I would like to create a few new public (open) geocaches.  As a basic member I can see that there are lots of premium caches in my area but I can't see exactly where they are.  So I could go to the trouble of setting up a new public cache only to have it refused because it was too close to an existing premium one.   Can the spacing requirements be overridden if the caches are of different types?

Any advice would be much appreciated.

I don't know what you mean by public open geocaches.

All physical stages of geocaches must be 528 ft from other geocaches. 

From the Help Center:

Geocache containers and physical stages of different geocaches must be at least 0.1 miles (528 feet or 161 meters) apart.

 

A physical stage is any object placed by the cache owner, such as a container or a tag.

 

There is no minimum required distance for

 

Non-physical stages, including reference points, trailheads, parking coordinates, and virtual stages.

Physical stages within the same Multi- or Mystery cache.

EarthCaches and Virtual Caches as they do not have physical waypoints.

Geocaching HQ may further restrict geocaches in areas where geocache saturation becomes a concern.

 

The help center provides instructions for checking a possible location with the reviewer. So you can see if the location is available before you place a geocache.

Edited March 12, 2022 by Max and 99

[+niraD]

8 minutes ago, Max and 99 said:

The help center provides instructions for checking a possible location with the reviewer. So you can see if the location is available before you place a geocache.

Specifically, see the "Ask a reviewer to check coordinates" section at the end of the Help Center article Check for minimum distance.

[+barefootjeff]

2 hours ago, obbig60 said:

I would like to create a few new public (open) geocaches.  As a basic member I can see that there are lots of premium caches in my area but I can't see exactly where they are.  So I could go to the trouble of setting up a new public cache only to have it refused because it was too close to an existing premium one.   Can the spacing requirements be overridden if the caches are of different types?

 

There's no difference between PMO and non-PMO, or different cache types, all phyisical elements that belong to different caches must be more than 161 metres apart. If you want to check for saturation clashes with PMO caches, you can ask your reviewer for a coordinates check as per this Help Centre page.

 

Another option might be to take advantage of the 1-week trial Premium Membership, if you haven't already done so, assuming this is still available (I can't easily find any reference in the Help Centre) or just purchase a 1-month membership, and during that time take note of all the PMO caches in your area.

[+Max and 99]

2 hours ago, obbig60 said:

As a basic member I can see that there are lots of premium caches in my area but I can't see exactly where they are.

This is a problem faced by premium members too, for non-traditional caches. Unless you have completed a multi or solved a puzzle cache or Wherigo, you don't know where the final physical locations are. This is not just an issue for basic members.

[+cerberus1]

9 hours ago, obbig60 said:

I would like to create a few new public (open) geocaches. 

As a basic member I can see that there are lots of premium caches in my area but I can't see exactly where they are. 

So I could go to the trouble of setting up a new public cache only to have it refused because it was too close to an existing premium one. 

 Can the spacing requirements be overridden if the caches are of different types?

Any advice would be much appreciated.

 

Was gonna ask if you're aware of the difference between "Advanced" and Premium Member Only caches?    

 - Because the majority of caches you've found are higher in D/T than most found by basic members...

Looked at your last found, and there is one heck-of-a-lotta PMOs nearby.  

Like barefootjeff, I'd send a request to Geocaching HQ, and ask for a temp/PM.  IIRC, they're good for a week.

Take that week's time to enter every PMO cache that might be in the way (by numbers, you'll be busy ;). 

 - That way you're not wasting real-time on PMO caches, to find you ran outta time for the ones you wanted close to.   

We feel nothing beats doing the caches "in the way" to be sure you found a good spot. 

I could be wrong, but I feel many "requests to Reviewer" (that's a lotta PMOs...) may make a Reviewer curious.

It wouldn't be the first time people played battleship to find a cache...

Edited March 13, 2022 by cerberus1

[+kunarion]

23 hours ago, obbig60 said:

I would like to create a few new public (open) geocaches.  As a basic member I can see that there are lots of premium caches in my area but I can't see exactly where they are.  So I could go to the trouble of setting up a new public cache only to have it refused because it was too close to an existing premium one.   Can the spacing requirements be overridden if the caches are of different types?

Any advice would be much appreciated.

 

On The Official App, you don't see "Premium Member Only Caches" as a Basic member.  As mentioned, those gray circles are "Advanced Caches", in view on the web site:  geocaching.com.  Pull up the caches on your phone, enter the coordinates as waypoints in The App, and you're golden.  You can measure how far they are.

 

But there are other types of hidden waypoints, including stages of caches, that nobody automatically sees.  So it's still good to get a check for minumum distance in a saturated place.

 

Or find the caches first!  I did that at a pretty full county park, and having their waypoints to shoot, I had some wiggle room for the perfect spot for my cache.

 

And attend local Geocaching Events.  I would excitedly tell a local about my cache plan, and they'd provide hints on where caches may conflict.  "Sounds great and on a completely unrelated note, have you found the "Ira's Log" cache?" 

 

Edited March 13, 2022 by kunarion

[+Isonzo Karst]

Search can be useful.   Let's say you found a nice spot for a cache at N53 37.145  W002 15.580          

Put that in Search, it will return all caches

https://www.geocaching.com/play/results/?st=N53+37.145++W002+15.580 ++++++++++++&ot=query&asc=true&sort=distance

and you'd see right away that there is a PMO cache too close, and others in the area. 

This won't help with finals of staged caches, but it will immediately allow you to see when your proposed location is too close an existing PMO Trad, or physical first stage of Multi. Which is a lot of what's out there.

[obbig60]

Thanks everyone for taking the time to reply.  To deal with the points you raise:
1) By Public or open cache I mean any cache that is visible to basic members and doesn't require a subscription.  I'm really only interested in traditional caches at this stage.
2) I was aware of the 528 ft minimum spacing.  My question was: can you have two caches within the minimum spacing if one is Public and the other is Premium (and hence invisible to basic members).  It looks like the answer is NO.

Thanks Isonzo for that link.  I had come across that page before but I had not realised its significance.  If I put in the exact coordinates of my proposed cache it tells me if there are going to be any conflicts.  That's just what I need.

[+Isonzo Karst]

12 minutes ago, obbig60 said:

.  If I put in the exact coordinates of my proposed cache it tells me if there are going to be any conflicts.  That's just what I need.

 

Search  tells you slightly more than the planning map (part of the cache submission process).  If either shows a conflict, you need a new place. Neither will warn you if your proposed location is too close a stage or final of a staged cache - ie, Multi, mystery, some Letterbox Hybrids, and  Wherigo.   The planning map ignores posted coords of Mystery and LBH, while Search will allow you to realize there's an issue - >   on Search if a Mystery has Challenge in the title, likely it's at the posted coords.  planning map will ignore it, Search will show it to you.

Edited March 14, 2022 by Isonzo Karst

[+kunarion]

21 minutes ago, Isonzo Karst said:

 

Search  tells you slightly more than the planning map (part of the cache submission process).  If either shows a conflict, you need a new place. Neither will warn you if your proposed location is too close a stage or final of a staged cache - ie, Multi, mystery, some Letterbox Hybrids, and  Wherigo.   The planning map ignores posted coords of Mystery and LBH, while Search will allow you to realize there's an issue - >   on Search if a Mystery has Challenge in the title, likely it's at the posted coords.  planning map will ignore it, Search will show it to you.

 

Sometimes you can just look on the map at a fully saturated place, and the couple of suspiciously available spots in there are certainly cache Finals or something.  People don't fill a place with caches and avoid the coolest spot.

 

In fact, it becomes easier and easier to find a tough puzzle cache when likely hiding spots become ruled out. I once placed only a couple caches in an area where I could have packed many caches, so that a cool epic cache would not become evident on the map.  And I found that one because other caches narrowed down the hiding spots.

[+Isonzo Karst]

19 minutes ago, kunarion said:

the couple of suspiciously available spots in there are certainly cache Finals

Guy placed a lot of caches in a nice state park. One  2 staged puzzle.  It went a long long time before it was found, as the puzzle had errors - could only be solved by making the same mistakes the CO had made.

It was found finally, as he kept filling in the trails. Finally, the one really nice river view spot with bench was the 1056ft opening ;-)

[+kunarion]

2 minutes ago, Isonzo Karst said:

Guy placed a lot of caches in a nice state park. One  2 staged puzzle.  It went a long long time before it was found, as the puzzle had errors - could only be solved by making the same mistakes the CO had made.

It was found finally, as he kept filling in the trails. Finally, the one really nice river view spot with bench was the 1056ft opening ;-)

 

I'm waiting for a couple of greenspace trails to fill up so I can go find some particularly devious puzzle caches.  Don't tell anybody.  

[obbig60]

Just checked a couple of the locations I had in mind.  They have all been nabbed aready for Premium caches.  Grrr.

[+Jayeffel]

On 3/14/2022 at 4:24 PM, obbig60 said:

Just checked a couple of the locations I had in mind.  They have all been nabbed aready for Premium caches.  Grrr.

What is that they say about "He who hesitates..."  think its happens to most of us.