Colorado Springs Parks Dept Removing Geocaches

[+NuBi]

It looks like Colorado Springs Parks Dept is making a lot of people remove their geocaches from the parks.. This is part of an e-mail I received...

 

After reviewing parks policies, staff members have determined that

leaving a container of any kind in a public park within the City of

Colorado Springs jurisdiction creates a potential hazard. We realize that the

initial cache is placed with safe contents, but the Parks Department

could be liable if someone were to tamper with the geocache container and

cause harm to another person. On behalf of the Director of the Parks,

Recreation and Cultural Services Department, I am asking that you

remove your cache within the next two (2) weeks. Please keep in mind I will

be monitoring the site, and park maintenance has been notified to

remove any caches found after the two week period.

 

What does everyone think?

[Army_Scout]

hard to understand why they would do such a thing kidna sounds like city government though

[+carivercpl]

i understand there point but if they are watching like they said then they would know what is placed in the caches. And besides that how many times have we (cachers) have removed something like a candy bar or candle. I think we police ourselfs preaty good. As a tax paying voter, I would have a talk with them, and see if they would allow this to be added to the summer program ie: Day Camp, or some other type of activty. But that just my 2 cents.

[+georgeandmary]

quote:

---

Originally posted by NuBi:

. On behalf of the Director of the Parks,

Recreation and Cultural Services Department, I am asking that you

remove your cache within the next two (2) weeks. Please keep in mind I will

be monitoring the site, and park maintenance has been notified to

remove any caches found after the two week period.

 

What does everyone think?

---

 

I say, hide it better. Who's to say they can find it. It's a game. I've looked for a caches 3 or 4 times before I found it. See how many parks officials it takes to find a level 4 or 5 hide.

 

Maybe they'll have fun.

 

george

 

Remember: Half the people you meet are below average.

[+treemoss2]

I like your solution to hide them better.

Better yet - don't hide anything at all, but post it. How many of those you think it may take before they get tired of it.

[+LazyK]

quote:

---

Originally posted by treemoss2:

I like your solution to hide them better.

Better yet - don't hide anything at all, but post it. How many of those you think it may take before they get tired of it.

---

 

The other thing you can do is to make them multi caches with the first coordinates somewhere outside the park. That way unless they track down every single cache in town, they'll never know if any have been placed in the parks.

[+Pepper]

I like the way you think, GREAT IDEA!

 

Team SuperGenius

Pepper

 

Horizontals where it's at!

[Ruprex]

Ohhhh! That's good!!!!

 

quote:

---

Originally posted by LazyK:

quote:

---

Originally posted by treemoss2:

I like your solution to hide them better.

Better yet - don't hide anything at all, but post it. How many of those you think it may take before they get tired of it.

---

 

The other thing you can do is to make them multi caches with the first coordinates somewhere outside the park. That way unless they track down every single cache in town, they'll never know if any have been placed in the parks.

---

 

God was my co-pilot but we crashed in the mountains and I had to eat him.

[+Highpointer]

quote:

---

Originally posted by LazyK:

 

The other thing you can do is to make them multi caches with the first coordinates somewhere outside the park. That way unless they track down every single cache in town, they'll never know if any have been placed in the parks.

---

 

LazyK,

 

That is a good idea . I have been thinking of a way to reactivate my Pinnacle Peak Park cache in Scottsdale sometime this winter . I put it in the park in mid May, and it was removed in early June . Apparently this is a place where the authorities don't like geocaching . This is the only cache that I have placed that has become lost , and I have caches in other city and county parks .

 

Highpointer

[+Searching_ut]

I find it very unfortunate that they fear possible problems from geocaching, but can't blame them really when you look at it on a whole.

 

The national park service has recently had to fight lawsuits resulting from people falling off cliffs through their own neglegance, jumping into gysers, rolling trucks, and many other things I've seen in the papers in the last year or so. I can see the trial lawyers lining up now to tap the big city/state/goverment coffers if anything did happen as a result of the game.

 

Not only are they taking away my right to geocache, I can't even enjoy a cup of "hot" coffee anymore.

 

Jeff

[+Z, H, and S]

Use Sub Micros such as "Slim Pickens". These are between Virtuals and Micros. They can not be opened therefore.. no tampering. They're not as "FUN" as a regular but may prove a solution.

 

As for the problem with suit happy lawyers. Well with out some drastic changes I see no solution.

[GameWizard]

We may not like it but this ban is simply a product of the times we live in. As geocachers, we should take the lead in getting the parks to help us. By limiting the size and type of cache and maintaining them more frequently, the parks would probably welcome us with open arms. I haven't been geocaching long but the people I have met are pretty cool and if we put our heads together we should be able to arrive at a solution.

[+briansnat]

Lets see, some 44,000+ caches have been placed and conservatively estimate 10 finds per cache. That's close to half a million cache finds without one instance of a booby trapped cache, which is what I think they are referring to. I'm not saying it can't, or won't happen, but people are more likely to get injured driving to the parking lot.

 

Just another example of some clueless bureaucrats with too little to do, making arbitrary decisions without any basis in fact.

 

"It has been my experience that folks who have no vices have very few virtues" - Abraham Lincoln

[+chaosmanor]

Well, no one can remove a virtual cache, unless they move whatever it is we are supposed to read/see. Micros can be devilishly difficult to find, especially if they are given a good camo-job. The posts above about multis are well-taken, although the NPS has gone to the extreme on that and removed some caches of multis that started off outside a National Park/Monument/etc. Ultimately, the problem is society as a whole, not geocaching. We really do have an obligation to work with the authorities as much as possible, as our hobby does impact the land. Most caches on public property were planted without permission; we all know this and I am guilty, too. We shouldn't quibble much if asked to remove our caches. On the other hand, we should take advantage of the opportunity to propose some alternative caching ideas. If we come across as reasonable people, we are more likely to get at least something, and look good at the same time.

[+montythemule]

Cache removal by land managers is happening in Arizona and california too. What to do?

 

Montythemule

 

Always remember: "Vince Malum Patientia"

[+Canyonherder]

I would suggest contacting all the manufacturers of GPS units to help in fighting these bans. The bans are rediculus but they are starting to spread. From the Canyonmaster in so far clear Utah.

 

Al Norris

[mudhuggers]

Just post a bunch of Virtual cache's. Like a Tree, Large Rock with a view, or a Historical site etc. Then let the park people start removing the virtual cache's. Cut down a tree here. . .etc, . . . get the picture?

[+Faveral]

quote:

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Originally posted by montythemule:

Cache removal by land managers is happening in Arizona and california too. What to do?

 

Montythemule

 

Always remember: "Vince Malum Patientia"

---

 

Just wondering where cache removal in California is happening? Just got into this game and would hate for it to be banned when it's so fun!

[Parsa]

I know of a couple here in San Diego County and I've heard of some in Orange Co., too. I know that one was removed by a city ranger in Daley Ranch north of Escondido and sort of held for ransom. Hehe. If they did that to me I would just say, "Keep my cheap container full of McToys. I'll plant another one." Another was found and removed by one of the few rangers patrolling the joint San Dieguito River Park in the area around Lake Hodges south of Escondido.

 

I agree that using imagination is the key to busy park caches. If you hide a cache in a sort of wild open space park, they are unlikely to find it as long as you don't place it somewhere that a path will be created. Place the cache near the trail, or use areas devoid of vegetation close to the cache for example. In busy parks, you can't just throw a tupperware under a bush. Use creativity and make it hard to find. Velcro it under something, etc. Put it somewhere gardeners won't ever find it. Also the idea of using an initial offset as part of a multiple is a great idea. Most park rangers don't have time to check out off-site geocaches to see if they might lead into their park.

 

Parsa

[blue_harley]

I just started Geocaching today. I am hooked. I found both caches I searched for.. No applause please....LOL

 

I agree with you all about the City and its Ban. The ban sucks.

 

I think some or all the ideas for continuing to hide caches are valid. We might just have to go underground instead of public. As far as I know right now, you can't do any jail or pay any fines for caching yet.

 

heres an idea, Start a geocatching club. Then the information wouldn't be public. If I started a private club would any of you join? We could meet on a weekend in a park. We could call the club "Colorado Geocachers" or [CG] for short. Let me know about this one. anyway would love your input.

 

Darius

 

Have you hugged your GPS today?

[+TEAM 360]

I like the idea of putting the REAL coordinates away from the park, as it looks like little Ricky Ranger got himself a GPS unit and stole my cache, which happened to be on top of a mountain that required a 3 hour hike to the top with no trail...hehehe...I bet he is paying the price for going to get that one...nothing beats off-site coordinates and a good camo job...now we Geocachers have to turn it up a notch, and see if we can beat them...

[+Highpointer]

Protect your caches: Make them "Members Only."

quote:

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Originally posted by montythemule:

Cache removal by land managers is happening in Arizona and California, too. What to do?

---

Become a Geocaching.com Premium Member and make your caches "Members Only" caches. Therefore, the land managers would have to become Members in order to know where your caches are located and to read the cache descriptions.

 

Ken Akerman (a.k.a. Highpointer )

[+chaosmanor]

That won't always work, Highpointer. A local geocacher who is also an NPS employee is a Premium Member, and she is positively tenacious about keeping caches out the Santa Monica Mountains NRA. She also patrols offsets, on the off-chance. She takes her job seriously, and I don't fault her for it. That's the mandate from Congress; if we want it changed, we need to convince the yayhoos in D.C. to vote to ease up on things. Yeah, right!

 

So many caches; so few pairs of decent shoes

[sgtpepper60]

I'm a newbie, but I noticed a link off the geocaching.com home page has this tidbit under

quote:

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How to Set-up The First Cache in Your Area

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:

Will it be on private or public land? - If you place it on private land, please ask permission before putting it there! If you place the cache on public lands you need to contact the managing agency to find out about their rules. You will be in violation of federal regulation by placing a cache in any area administered by the National Park Service (US). The National Park regulations are intended to protect the fragile environment, and historical and cultural areas found in the parks. http://www.geocaching.com/articles/making.asp.

 

So it really shouldn't be much of a surprise to anyone...

[+Highpointer]

quote:

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Originally posted by chaosmanor:

That won't always work, Highpointer. A local geocacher who is also an NPS employee is a Premium Member, and she is positively tenacious about keeping caches out the Santa Monica Mountains NRA. She also patrols offsets, on the off-chance. She takes her job seriously, and I don't fault her for it. That's the mandate from Congress; if we want it changed, we need to convince the yayhoos in D.C. to vote to ease up on things. Yeah, right!

---

 

I have a cache near the top of a mountain in the McDowell Sonoran Preserve that has been archived by an administrator at Groundspeak because no caches are allowed on any Preserve land owned by the City of Scottsdale. This appears to be an unflexible and extreme prohibition, especially with this cache because there is a road going up to the summit of the mountain and the summit has a large complex of electronic communications facilities and a helicopter landing pad .

 

I expect to hike to this cache this weekend to pick up this cache. Therefore, if you want to claim a "last find" of this cache, please do it within the next three days.

 

Ken (a.k.a. Highpointer )