How many people ACTUALLY get permission before hiding a cache?

[+HunterandSamuel]

Staying on topic: We would get permission from the town's manager to hide our caches in town (which she was very thankful for because of having to call in the bomb squad for a suspicious container that come to find out was an ammo geocache can) and then she left the position. No town manager for awhile. We then called the department of public  works who gave us permission. I guess what I'm saying is...keep trying all departments of government for permission to  hide a geocache!! 

[+The Jester]

6 hours ago, HunterandSamuel said:

I'll say it again...Geocaching is for all people, including families and their children. The sport will die if we do not keep future generations interested. We also hold responsibility when it comes to the safety of children when deciding where to hide our caches. 

So far, everyone has agreed that geocaching, the activity, is for all people - including families and their children.  But "all people" also includes those who SCUBA dive, rock climb, climb trees, go boating (anything from little rafts on a pond to white water rafting at class 6), hike long distances and many other skills/activities.  And out of the 3.2 million caches around the world, there are some placements for these people also.  And many of those are not suitable for every child or even every adult.  It is totally unrealistic to expect every cache to suitable for every single person in the world, including families and children. 

[+barefootjeff]

11 hours ago, HunterandSamuel said:

I'll say it again...Geocaching is for all people, including families and their children. The sport will die if we do not keep future generations interested. We also hold responsibility when it comes to the safety of children when deciding where to hide our caches. 

 

Of my 38 active hides, three have the "kid friendly" attribute set: my Earthcache on the rocks at the end of the beach and two T2 caches which should appeal to kids in the age range of about 8 to 12 (and maybe older ones who don't have an implanted phone). But even those would be unsuiitable for, say, 3-year-olds to go wandering around unsupervised. On practically any cache around here there's a significant risk of encountering snakes - I've even had a few in my back yard although they've been harmless tree pythons - but there are enough potentially deadly red-bellied blacks, eastern browns and death adders about for all my caches to have the Dangerous Animals attribute set. Kids around here have to learn from an early age to be wary of snakes and know what to do if they encounter one, and trying to make that the cache-owner's responsibility is simply ridiculous. Moving up the terrain scale from those three caches, there are all manner of other hazards for small kids, like cliffs, unstable or slippery rocks, waterfalls, thick undergrowth, thorny vines, spiders, leeches, ticks and all the other hazards that come with going outside suburbia. On 14 of those caches I've gone as far as setting the "Not suitable for kids" attribute which anyone with pre-teen kids should heed. I'll let you guess which of my caches get the highest percentage of FPs (hint: it isn't the ones with the "kid friendly" attribute). In my view, what this game needs to keep it thriving is cachers willing to attempt those more challenging hides and taste the wide smorgasbord of experiences that go beyond a plastic box full of toys in a suburban park.

 

Getting back onto the topic of permissions, around here most local and state government owned public land that's not specifically restricted is considered okay for cache placement, even if it's mostly under the radar. Where possible I try to pick locations on land zoned RE1 (public recreation) which seems a good match for our pastime. In those places, the public can pretty much do whatever they want as long as it's not destructive or disruptive to other people, although some have restrictions on dogs, motorbikes, fires, camping, horse-riding, etc. Mostly such places are virgin bushland with maybe the odd fire trail and some unofficial tracks that the locals have created, although in the more popular spots there might be council-made footpaths or bike paths. In this state it's really just national parks and Sydney Olympic Park where explicit permission is needed (the regional wiki provides all the details).

 

The main thing to remember with caching is common sense, and this applies to both the setter and the seeker. When planning to visit a cache, with or without family, consider the D/T rating and attributes and read the description - the CO probably had a reason for writing it.

Edited March 22, 2020 by barefootjeff
Spelling

[+cerberus1]

15 hours ago, HunterandSamuel said:

I'll say it again...Geocaching is for all people, including families and their children. The sport will die if we do not keep future generations interested. We also hold responsibility when it comes to the safety of children when deciding where to hide our caches. 

 

In conversation, the main reason new people lose interest is because the caches a basic member can find are too simple.

When we open their eyes to the website, and the availability of caches more than simple 2 and below hides,  they become interested again, with some becoming premium members (when realizing what they were missing with that "basic" app...). 

Here, we have "children" hitting up-to 5T rope caches, trained a few myself, and all were much more flexible than me.  

We're seeing 3T game land trails with entire families enjoying the walk.  It's what they like to do.

Park n grabs aren't for everyone...

 

Edited March 22, 2020 by cerberus1
is/are

[Keystone]

As a reminder, this thread is about permission - not safety or other topics.  As a reviewer I've seen drainage tunnel caches, tree climbing caches, scuba caches and other "extreme" caches hidden with permission.  And, I've pushed back on many cache submissions regarding permission -- regardless of whether it's a park'n grab or a T5.  So, let's keep talking about permission.

[+hzoi]

On 3/21/2020 at 11:37 PM, HunterandSamuel said:

I'll say it again...Geocaching is for all people, including families and their children. The sport will die if we do not keep future generations interested. We also hold responsibility when it comes to the safety of children when deciding where to hide our caches. 

 

 

[+HunterandSamuel]

8 hours ago, hzoi said:

 

 

 

And?

 

[+HunterandSamuel]

On 3/22/2020 at 10:38 AM, Keystone said:

As a reminder, this thread is about permission - not safety or other topics.  As a reviewer I've seen drainage tunnel caches, tree climbing caches, scuba caches and other "extreme" caches hidden with permission.  And, I've pushed back on many cache submissions regarding permission -- regardless of whether it's a park'n grab or a T5.  So, let's keep talking about permission.

 

Have you thought about the saftey of geocaching, Keystone? And promoting future generations to geocache? 

[+niraD]

6 minutes ago, HunterandSamuel said:

Have you thought about the saftey of geocaching, Keystone? And promoting future generations to geocache? 

The volunteer reviewers do not evaluate caches for safety (or for "saftey"). They do evaluate caches for adequate permission.

[+cerberus1]

We were surprised that most our  T4-T5 caches found had permission,  with the landowners knowing (some watching, some even participating  :-)  what they entailed.   

 A big difference to the 1/1-1/1.5  parking lot, guardrail, and  roadside hides we've done that folks later admitted had none.  

 

Edited March 23, 2020 by cerberus1

[+barefootjeff]

14 minutes ago, niraD said:

21 minutes ago, HunterandSamuel said:

Have you thought about the saftey of geocaching, Keystone? And promoting future generations to geocache? 

The volunteer reviewers do not evaluate caches for safety (or for "saftey"). They do evaluate caches for adequate permission.

 

I have two caches in national parks for which I received explicit written permission from the NSW National Parks and Wildlife service. They are rated terrain 3 and 3.5, with both having the Dangerous Animals and Cliifs/Falling Rocks attributes. One is a 6km hike with some steep climbs up roughly-hewn uneven rock steps, while the other is 3km of steep gravel fire trail followed by off-track rock scrambling to reach GZ, which itself is close to some moderate drop-offs. Neither would be suitable for young children and both require a good level of fitness and bushland experience, yet neither the park ranger nor her supervisor (the Regional Director who had to sign off on the permission) had any safety concerns with them.

 

 

Cachers with young families might prefer nice safe terrain 1/1.5 hides in suburban parks and playgrounds, that's fine and there are lots of such caches about, but surely there's also room in this game for those of us who prefer a more physically challenging experience.

 

The CO's responsibility is to satisfy the reviewer that the cache is allowed to go where it is and to provide adequate and accurate information on the cache page. It's then the seeker's responsibility to determine whether they're up to the challenge and to take whatever precautions they think necessary to manage whatever risks the journey to GZ might entail.

[+hzoi]

20 hours ago, HunterandSamuel said:

And?

 

And, I'm challenging your self-appointed standing to make pronouncements on all things geocaching, given that you've been doing this for two years, with a relative handful of hides and finds.  

 

You've made your point abundantly clear, and thank you for voicing your opinion.  But please realize that, somehow, geocachers collectively managed to do this for 18 years without slaughtering children wholesale  before you came along.

 

You, as a parent, need to make decisions on what's appropriate for your family and your child, just the same as I do for mine.  But that doesn't apply to geocaching as a whole.

 

"Going to the movies" can be a family activity.  But movies have ratings to help parents decide whether a movie is appropriate for the whole family.

 

So, too, do geocaches.  They're rated by terrain, they're rated by difficulty, and they have attributes to boot.  One of them is "kid friendly."  Another is "abandoned mines."  Those can help guide decisions as to whether a particular cache should be attempted with children.

 

Geocache owners have given parents plenty of tools to guide decision making.  They don't need to bend to your will.

 

They should, however, get permission to hide caches when it's appropriate.  And just like that, we're back on topic.

Edited March 24, 2020 by hzoi

[+STNolan]

The one I personally always struggle with are Earth-caches or virtuals on public right of ways/public access. Having to request permission for a container-less cache that asks an individual to walk up to a location on a sidewalk or a declared right-of-way always seemed so odd to me. Even when wording the request it sounds odd:

"Hey do you mind if we encourage people to walk on the sidewalk here?"

 

I recognize the importance of asking permission in Parks and such where there may be concerns about the volume of people visiting an area but even that seems a stretch to me.

 

Alas rules are made to be followed - Time to email the city council LOL

[+K13]

On 3/21/2020 at 5:37 PM, HunterandSamuel said:

I'll say it again...Geocaching is for all people, including families and their children. The sport will die if we do not keep future generations interested. We also hold responsibility when it comes to the safety of children when deciding where to hide our caches. 

The ONLY person responsible for the safety of children are the parents/guardians of those children - CERTAINLY not me when I place a challenging geocache, or ANY geocache for that matter.

[+HunterandSamuel]

Sorry. I disagree. As geocachers who hide caches, we are also responsible for the safety of children when placing caches.. 

[+NYPaddleCacher]

31 minutes ago, HunterandSamuel said:

Sorry. I disagree. As geocachers who hide caches, we are also responsible for the safety of children when placing caches.. 

 

Sorry I disagree.  Do you really want random strangers making decisions about the safety of your children?

[+niraD]

31 minutes ago, HunterandSamuel said:

Sorry. I disagree. As geocachers who hide caches, we are also responsible for the safety of children when placing caches.. 

Even when someone hides a T5 cache with the "Not recommended for kids" attribute?

 

[+HunterandSamuel]

6 minutes ago, NYPaddleCacher said:

 

Sorry I disagree.  Do you really want random strangers making decisions about the safety of your children?

When we place a cache hide, we have to also consider the dangers and if it will be child friendly. 

[+HunterandSamuel]

4 minutes ago, niraD said:

Even when someone hides a T5 cache with the "Not recommended for kids" attribute?

 

I have never seen this attribute in my area but please use it if your cache hide is dangerous and not child friendly. 

[+HunterandSamuel]

As I have stated before...when hiding a cache keep in mind that kids are the future to keeping geocaching popular...keep geocaching interesting and appealing to the younger generation. As for you old adults who say the heck with kids...that this is for me and my addiction...fine. But remember how this all started. A kids game. And that all you old geocachers turned it into something else. 

[+NYPaddleCacher]

21 minutes ago, HunterandSamuel said:

As I have stated before...when hiding a cache keep in mind that kids are the future to keeping geocaching popular...keep geocaching interesting and appealing to the younger generation. As for you old adults who say the heck with kids...that this is for me and my addiction...fine. But remember how this all started. A kids game. And that all you old geocachers turned it into something else. 

 

No, this didn't start as a kids game.   It started when an adult hid a plastic bucket with some stuff in it, then posted the coordinates on a online discussion forum which I can say with complete certainly, was not being read by kids.  IMHO, the game was originally created for adults, and some chose to include their family.  

 

There are plenty of caches that are kid friendly, probably a very high percentage for kids with adult supervision.  What some are objecting to is your insistence that every single cache be kid friendly.   

 

Edited April 2, 2020 by NYPaddleCacher

[+Geocaching HQ]

This thread continues to go off topic, so we are closing it.