Is there a maximum distance between stages for Wherigos?

[+steve4nlanguage]

I tried searching this forum, as well as the Geocaching Help Center, but couldn't find the answer.

I'm thinking of making a Wherigo that would involve going to a few different subway stops, each about 2+km from each other, with the final GZ several km from the posted coordinates. I know that Mystery caches require the final GZ to be within 3.2km of the posted coords, but that Multi caches can have the stages spread out over large distances. However,  I can't find any rules about this for Wherigo caches.

Can anyone advise? Thanks.

Edited March 11, 2018 by steve4nlanguage
fix typo

[+Forest-Ghost]

The only regulation is that the final must be within 2 miles of the posted coordinates. The intermediate stages can be as far apart as one would like. There’s a 5/5 Wherigo in Missouri which requires the player to drive several hundred miles across the state. I did a Wherigo in Missouri where the player rides an amtrack train somewhere around 10 miles round trip. 

[+steve4nlanguage]

Ok, thanks 

[+bflentje]

On 3/10/2018 at 11:50 PM, Forest-Ghost said:

The only regulation is that the final must be within 2 miles of the posted coordinates. The intermediate stages can be as far apart as one would like. There’s a 5/5 Wherigo in Missouri which requires the player to drive several hundred miles across the state. I did a Wherigo in Missouri where the player rides an amtrack train somewhere around 10 miles round trip. 

Based only on what my reviewer told me, the Wherigo is treated like a multicache and mystery. If the listed coords are virtual, then the final has to be no more than the two mile limit. But if there's a container or some physical thing at the listed, then there is no limit.

 

If I am in error in understanding the official rules, I blame my reviewer ;-)

[+Forest-Ghost]

bflentje, You're saying that if you put a physical part of a Wherigo at the posted coordinates for that Wherigo then your allowed to have the final container as far away as you want?

 

I recently found out that according to Groundspeak, prior to September of 2017, we were allowed to have the final of a multi or Wherigo as far as 10 miles from the posted coordinates. These rules came straight from Groundspeak. For years our reviewers told us the rule was always 2 miles for Wherigo, mystery, and multi, although our local reviewers let players fudge a little and sometimes got away with further.

 

 

 

[+bflentje]

5 hours ago, Forest-Ghost said:

bflentje, You're saying that if you put a physical part of a Wherigo at the posted coordinates for that Wherigo then your allowed to have the final container as far away as you want?

Yes, according to my reviewer. I wanted to build a cartridge that takes the player on about a 40 mile ride and that's the only way I could get it published. Perhaps use a first stage to contain a lock combination or some other field information required for a puzzle in the cartridge.

Again, I want to emphasize that is what how I understood it. Since winter here in MN had set in last December I never did create the Wherigo. But now that we're thawing out I plan on testing the idea in April.

[+Forest-Ghost]

Wow that’s a new one to me. The reviewers in stl are pretty strict about the 2 mile rule but I was always told that the rule was coming from HQ. 

[+bflentje]

I went back and checked the email from my reviewer. Here's what he said, in the context of treating a Wherigo like a multicache..

Quote

I'm not aware of a distance requirement for physical stages of a multi.  That said, it would probably have to be something more than a simple tag with a password - you'd need a container of some sort.

 

[+Isonzo Karst]

Quote

Based only on what my reviewer told me, the Wherigo is treated like a multicache and mystery. If the listed coords are virtual, then the final has to be no more than the two mile limit. But if there's a container or some physical thing at the listed, then there is no limit.

I'm guessing you misunderstood.

The listing guidelines define Wherigo listing coords 

IF the cart has Start at coords, there's no automatic limit on the distance between the start at coords and the final, just like a Multi-cache.  The distance limit is the cache owner's ability to maintain a physical box. Those Start at coords do not need to be a physical stage, just the first zone of the Wherigo. Just as Multi can start with a virtual stage, but it needs to be place you must visit. For a multi, some kind of info gathering, for a Wherigo, to trigger a zone - and possibly some kind of info gather, but the cart is not reviewed.

The Geocaching.com listing must use the Start at coords.    I could have a cart with Start at coords in San Francisco California, ( a purely virtual first trigger zone) with the final in my back yard (central Florida). The Wherigo listing would have those California coords and a placed state of California.   San Fran is about 2400 miles from me. I could have intermediate zones cross country, or not...

I could do this in reverse, Start at my backyard, final in San Fran, but I'd need a real maintenance plan for the final cache.....and nobody would actually hunt either version ;-) 

If the cart is Play anywhere, then the  listing coords must be within 2 miles of the final,  just like a Mystery.

 

Edited March 15, 2018 by Isonzo Karst

[+bflentje]

4 hours ago, Isonzo Karst said:

I'm guessing you misunderstood.

The listing guidelines define Wherigo listing coords 

IF the cart has Start at coords, there's no automatic limit on the distance between the start at coords and the final, just like a Multi-cache.  The distance limit is the cache owner's ability to maintain a physical box. Those Start at coords do not need to be a physical stage, just the first zone of the Wherigo. Just as Multi can start with a virtual stage, but it needs to be place you must visit. For a multi, some kind of info gathering, for a Wherigo, to trigger a zone - and possibly some kind of info gather, but the cart is not reviewed.

The Geocaching.com listing must use the Start at coords.    I could have a cart with Start at coords in San Francisco California, ( a purely virtual first trigger zone) with the final in my back yard (central Florida). The Wherigo listing would have those California coords and a placed state of California.   San Fran is about 2400 miles from me. I could have intermediate zones cross country, or not...

I could do this in reverse, Start at my backyard, final in San Fran, but I'd need a real maintenance plan for the final cache.....and nobody would actually hunt either version ;-) 

If the cart is Play anywhere, then the  listing coords must be within 2 miles of the final,  just like a Mystery.

 

I agree with most of what you said, in terms of the cartridge. I obviously didn't make it clear that I was referring strictly to the coords within the cache listing and NOT the cartridge itself. The listed coords versus the final container. And based on that, I did not misunderstand what I was told.

[+Forest-Ghost]

5 hours ago, Isonzo Karst said:

IF the cart has Start at coords, there's no automatic limit on the distance between the start at coords and the final, just like a Multi-cache.  The distance limit is the cache owner's ability to maintain a physical box. Those Start at coords do not need to be a physical stage, just the first zone of the Wherigo. Just as Multi can start with a virtual stage, but it needs to be place you must visit. For a multi, some kind of info gathering, for a Wherigo, to trigger a zone - and possibly some kind of info gather, but the cart is not reviewed.

The Geocaching.com listing must use the Start at coords.    I could have a cart with Start at coords in San Francisco California, ( a purely virtual first trigger zone) with the final in my back yard (central Florida). The Wherigo listing would have those California coords and a placed state of California.   San Fran is about 2400 miles from me. I could have intermediate zones cross country, or not...

I could do this in reverse, Start at my backyard, final in San Fran, but I'd need a real maintenance plan for the final cache.....and nobody would actually hunt either version ;-) 

If the cart is Play anywhere, then the  listing coords must be within 2 miles of the final,  just like a Mystery.

 

11

 

Do you have a reference for this information? I couldn't find anything about this on the rules page.

[+Isonzo Karst]

https://www.geocaching.com/play/guidelines#Wherigo

 

A Wherigo cache requires a Wherigo cartridge to find a cache container with a logbook. The cartridge must be hosted on Wherigo.com and the cache description must include a link to the cartridge. Wherigo posted coordinates must be the same as the “Start at” coordinates on Wherigo.com, or within 2 miles (3.2 km) of the final for Play anywhere and Reverse cartridges.

 

 

[+MightyReek]

On 15/03/2018 at 11:16 PM, Isonzo Karst said:

https://www.geocaching.com/play/guidelines#Wherigo

 

A Wherigo cache requires a Wherigo cartridge to find a cache container with a logbook. The cartridge must be hosted on Wherigo.com and the cache description must include a link to the cartridge. Wherigo posted coordinates must be the same as the “Start at” coordinates on Wherigo.com, or within 2 miles (3.2 km) of the final for Play anywhere and Reverse cartridges.

 

 

This is it, it says it all.

[+Isonzo Karst]

Someone PM'ed me that the guideline I quoted/ linked doesn't speak to distance between stages of a Wherigo at all. It doesn't .That's because there is no limit by rule.( As a practical matter, there are some limits. Wherigo in particular, zones (stages) too close together can fail in actual use. Other staged caches run the risk of very close stages being found out of order. Far apart is okay, but creates issues of who is going to actually do the travel. )

There's no mention of distance between stages on any staged (or potentially staged) cache:  Wherigo, Multi-caches, Mystery caches, Letterbox Hybrids.  In all cases, if there's something to maintain, the location must be in maintenance range for the cache owner.   The Geocaching.com listing coordinates are defined - in some cases (Mystery, Wherigo that are run from a play anywhere cart) as within 2 miles of final.  LBH or Wherigo used for Geoart almost must follow this rule.

Edited March 19, 2018 by Isonzo Karst

[gsl311nash]

On 3/15/2018 at 6:16 PM, Isonzo Karst said:

https://www.geocaching.com/play/guidelines#Wherigo

 

A Wherigo cache requires a Wherigo cartridge to find a cache container with a logbook. The cartridge must be hosted on Wherigo.com and the cache description must include a link to the cartridge. Wherigo posted coordinates must be the same as the “Start at” coordinates on Wherigo.com, or within 2 miles (3.2 km) of the final for Play anywhere and Reverse cartridges.

 

 

This is so confusing. Why is there a distance limit on some kinds of stashes but not on other kinds. IF there is a super good reason  to haave it for  for the ? Caches (and i am sure there is) , why NOT for multiple stop caches, postbox caches or WherIgos caches Except for one special Wherigo that I dont understand at all.  

2 miles seems to be kind of like a "sometimes" rule , whenever its convient rule.