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DNF or Note


TotoTeam
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Agreed. Though to me, if it's a matter of enforcing a rule (ie, a right), then it's just not about me, but about mutual understanding of what is and isn't allowed, which can benefit others in the future, if either of us indeed has a wrong understanding. Having that settled, to me, isn't itself arguing. But how you get to that settlement certainly can be :)

My main point is that if your attitude is that the solution starts by you getting your way, then the CO is going to view you as a combatant, thus insuring he won't listen to the lesson. If you want him to hear what he's doing wrong, thus benefiting others in the future, you should teach the lesson and then leave him to make his own decision. If you approach him as a friend, and he still isn't convinced he should do what you're suggesting, then he certainly wouldn't have changed his ways if you had approached him as an antagonist.

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Completely agreed. And that's the difference between "arguing" (in this colloquial sense) and .. well I don't think we had a label for respectably holding your ground as reasonable so as to work towards coming to a point of agreement on matters of objective rules. :P

... I think this strand is getting mixed up with the new "Really?" thread, heh.

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niraD, so are there then no situations then where would you post a Note instead of a DNF?
I've posted Notes when I've revisited caches that I had already found (e.g., when introducing newbies to geocaching). I've posted Notes when I haven't reached GZ, or when I reached GZ but didn't search for some reason. I've posted Notes for "reconnaissance visits", when I visited a location to collect information, but was never planning to retrieve/replace the cache during that visit. And I may have posted Notes for other reasons.

 

But in general, if I reach GZ and search for the cache, then I log either a Find or a DNF.

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Find logs are a different issue than DNFs.

I understand what you're saying and certainly don't mean to argue with you, but for me, there's not a significant difference between DNFs and finds in this context: neither is worth arguing with a CO about.

 

But worthy of arguing here.. [sigh]

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Unless the cache is missing, a DNF means one didn't search in the correct place.

I either looked for it, or I didn't. Without either confirmation from the cache owner, an explicit hint or photo, or other concrete information, how am I to know if I looked in the right place? So if I looked for it but didn't find it, I log a DNF. If I didn't have the chance to look for it, say, due to someone loitering at the cache location, I might leave a note, or I might not log it at all.

 

Other than that, I use notes for situations when logging "Found it" or "Didn't find it" wouldn't apply, such as noting a subsequent visit to a cache (say, for a TB swap), updating my progress on a challenge cache (not as common these days), or just saying howdy to the CO.

This correct and the way the note log should be used.

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Here's a sampling of my "Write note" logs that are actually about cache hunting in cases where I considered a Note more appropriate than a DNF.

 

Apparently homeless man sitting right next to GZ, so gave this one a pass.

 

Saw the bear but didn't look for the cache because of all the DNf logs and I was running out of time.

 

Too cold and windy for a good search.

 

This one we skipped because there was man and equipment working clearing the ditch at GZ.

 

Arrived at this location to see people out working in the yard nearby, so I didn't search for this one.

 

Arrived at this location to find someone sitting in a car right by GZ, so I didn't search for this one.

 

Didn't hunt for this one because the property owner seemed a bit hostile about me parking right next to his property.

 

What looked like the best way to access this cache turned out to be private property.

 

Too many muggles.

 

Couldn't get close enough to search.

 

The whole area is flooded and the cache is inaccessible without waders.

 

After [another cacher’s] DNF I thought I'd try a different approach. I looked online for a Little Library near the coordinates listed for this cache, but the closest Library site listed is in [another town] and I can't come up with any simple variation on the coordinates that would place the cache and the Library anywhere near each other. So yes, Really! We do need a hint! Like maybe better coordinates.

 

Oops! I thought I had solved this one, but I see that I didn't have the corrected coordinates. I'm sure glad I didn't go looking where the listed coordinates took me.

 

Passed this one by, as large mowing equipment was at work in the immediate area. Hope the cache is safe from the mowers.

 

Approached this from [nearby road] thinking to park along the road or "above the power station by the barricade" but all the PRIVATE PROPERTY and NO TRESPASSING SIGNS caused me to rethink that plan. Maybe I'll try again from the creek/trail side, but that will be for another day.

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Here's a sampling of my "Write note" logs that are actually about cache hunting in cases where I considered a Note more appropriate than a DNF.

 

Apparently homeless man sitting right next to GZ, so gave this one a pass.

 

Saw the bear but didn't look for the cache because of all the DNf logs and I was running out of time.

 

Too cold and windy for a good search.

 

This one we skipped because there was man and equipment working clearing the ditch at GZ.

 

Arrived at this location to see people out working in the yard nearby, so I didn't search for this one.

 

Arrived at this location to find someone sitting in a car right by GZ, so I didn't search for this one.

 

Didn't hunt for this one because the property owner seemed a bit hostile about me parking right next to his property.

 

What looked like the best way to access this cache turned out to be private property.

 

Too many muggles.

 

Couldn't get close enough to search.

 

The whole area is flooded and the cache is inaccessible without waders.

 

After [another cacher’s] DNF I thought I'd try a different approach. I looked online for a Little Library near the coordinates listed for this cache, but the closest Library site listed is in [another town] and I can't come up with any simple variation on the coordinates that would place the cache and the Library anywhere near each other. So yes, Really! We do need a hint! Like maybe better coordinates.

 

Oops! I thought I had solved this one, but I see that I didn't have the corrected coordinates. I'm sure glad I didn't go looking where the listed coordinates took me.

 

Passed this one by, as large mowing equipment was at work in the immediate area. Hope the cache is safe from the mowers.

 

Approached this from [nearby road] thinking to park along the road or "above the power station by the barricade" but all the PRIVATE PROPERTY and NO TRESPASSING SIGNS caused me to rethink that plan. Maybe I'll try again from the creek/trail side, but that will be for another day.

 

Most of these situations would be DNFs for me because of the way field notes work in my GPS, and for my own record keeping, but notes work just as well for these situations.

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Here's a sampling of my "Write note" logs that are actually about cache hunting in cases where I considered a Note more appropriate than a DNF.

 

Apparently homeless man sitting right next to GZ, so gave this one a pass.

 

Saw the bear but didn't look for the cache because of all the DNf logs and I was running out of time.

 

Too cold and windy for a good search.

 

This one we skipped because there was man and equipment working clearing the ditch at GZ.

 

Arrived at this location to see people out working in the yard nearby, so I didn't search for this one.

 

Arrived at this location to find someone sitting in a car right by GZ, so I didn't search for this one.

 

Didn't hunt for this one because the property owner seemed a bit hostile about me parking right next to his property.

 

What looked like the best way to access this cache turned out to be private property.

 

Too many muggles.

 

Couldn't get close enough to search.

 

The whole area is flooded and the cache is inaccessible without waders.

 

After [another cacher’s] DNF I thought I'd try a different approach. I looked online for a Little Library near the coordinates listed for this cache, but the closest Library site listed is in [another town] and I can't come up with any simple variation on the coordinates that would place the cache and the Library anywhere near each other. So yes, Really! We do need a hint! Like maybe better coordinates.

 

Oops! I thought I had solved this one, but I see that I didn't have the corrected coordinates. I'm sure glad I didn't go looking where the listed coordinates took me.

 

Passed this one by, as large mowing equipment was at work in the immediate area. Hope the cache is safe from the mowers.

 

Approached this from [nearby road] thinking to park along the road or "above the power station by the barricade" but all the PRIVATE PROPERTY and NO TRESPASSING SIGNS caused me to rethink that plan. Maybe I'll try again from the creek/trail side, but that will be for another day.

These would all be DNFs for me, if my gpsr was in "goto" mode and i was navigating towards ground zero with intentions of going after a cache.

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I dunno. I thought the DNF thing would boil down to something extremely simple.

If you embarked on a search for a cache and didn't sign the physical log, that's a DNF.

 

For example, if you attempted to drive to a cache in the country and the road was washed out, this is a DNF even though you didn't get close to the log.

 

Another: If you go to a tree and see the cache up there and are unable or unwilling to risk life and limb to get to it, this is also a DNF.

 

If the C.O. complains, I don't care what happens to my online log.

I posted it, adding to the cache history.

If it goes away, I don't worry about it. It's yesterday's news.

 

I play for fun. Worrying about such things isn't fun. I don't worry about them.

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I dunno. I thought the DNF thing would boil down to something extremely simple.

If you embarked on a search for a cache and didn't sign the physical log, that's a DNF.

Yeah, if only we all agreed on what it means to "embark on a search". Or for that mattter, if only we all agreed that "embarking on a search" was the key factor, as opposed to "performing a search". Not that we all agree on what it means to "perform a search" either... Edited by niraD
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Thankfully there is no rule for what qualifies a DNF. It's really not that important. Ensure that what you post is most accurate by your interpretation and for the community that will see it, and then move on. The CO is then responsible to filter the history of their own listings to remain accurate by their own judgement. DNFs and notes are informational, not statistical beyond the short-term status of the listing itself. Just be informative to your best judgement, then let the CO handle it. *shrug*

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Thankfully there is no rule for what qualifies a DNF. It's really not that important. Ensure that what you post is most accurate by your interpretation and for the community that will see it, and then move on. The CO is then responsible to filter the history of their own listings to remain accurate by their own judgement. DNFs and notes are informational, not statistical beyond the short-term status of the listing itself. Just be informative to your best judgement, then let the CO handle it. *shrug*

It's the CO's cache but he doesn't have total control of my logs. My DNFs are not one or two word lines. They may contain information that might be of help to future finders. They sometimes give the CO some useful info. Important for me, they are part of my caching history. Looking over a query, seeing my frowny face, and then looking up my log to see why i didn't make the find the first time can be of help on my next attempt.

 

I've been fortunate that no CO has ever deleted any of my logs but i'll definitely be asking what the problem is if it ever happens.

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I dunno. I thought the DNF thing would boil down to something extremely simple.

If you embarked on a search for a cache and didn't sign the physical log, that's a DNF.

Yeah, if only we all agreed on what it means to "embark on a search". Or for that mattter, if only we all agreed that "embarking on a search" was the key factor, as opposed to "performing a search". Not that we all agree on what it means to "perform a search" either...

 

If for example, I got out of my vehicle, hit "Go" on my GPS, starting walking down the trail and got a phone call somewhere along the way from home indicated that I needed to go somewhere else to deal with something, I wouldn't post a DNF. I probably wouldn't even post because the reason that my navigation to the cache was interrupted would be of no use to the CO or future seekers.

 

If, however, I got out of my vehicle, hit "Go" on my GPS, starting walking down the trail and encountered a place where the trail was washed out, or that the area around GZ was inaccessible (which could even be due to too many muggles), my reason for for interrupting the search would be something that the CO would want to know about or useful information for a future seeker, so I would post a DNF.

 

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I dunno. I thought the DNF thing would boil down to something extremely simple.

If you embarked on a search for a cache and didn't sign the physical log, that's a DNF.

Yeah, if only we all agreed on what it means to "embark on a search". Or for that mattter, if only we all agreed that "embarking on a search" was the key factor, as opposed to "performing a search". Not that we all agree on what it means to "perform a search" either...

If for example, I got out of my vehicle, hit "Go" on my GPS, starting walking down the trail and got a phone call somewhere along the way from home indicated that I needed to go somewhere else to deal with something, I wouldn't post a DNF. I probably wouldn't even post because the reason that my navigation to the cache was interrupted would be of no use to the CO or future seekers.

Agreed. In addition to not being useful for the CO or future seekers, the reason also wouldn't be useful to me for future attempts. That fact that I got called away on a previous visit would be completely irrelevant when I'm looking for it the next time. A log consisting solely of lorem ipsum would be just as useful for everyone. :laughing:

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Thankfully there is no rule for what qualifies a DNF. It's really not that important. Ensure that what you post is most accurate by your interpretation and for the community that will see it, and then move on. The CO is then responsible to filter the history of their own listings to remain accurate by their own judgement. DNFs and notes are informational, not statistical beyond the short-term status of the listing itself. Just be informative to your best judgement, then let the CO handle it. *shrug*

It's the CO's cache but he doesn't have total control of my logs. My DNFs are not one or two word lines. They may contain information that might be of help to future finders. They sometimes give the CO some useful info. Important for me, they are part of my caching history. Looking over a query, seeing my frowny face, and then looking up my log to see why i didn't make the find the first time can be of help on my next attempt.

 

I've been fortunate that no CO has ever deleted any of my logs but i'll definitely be asking what the problem is if it ever happens.

 

I have always written DNFs with the understanding that I will be the primary audience for them long after they are immediately relevant to a cache owner or fellow searcher. I find it bothersome that cache owners can delete these useful logs, that are an important part of my own caching history, for no good reason, and that I could never have the log restored.

 

Happily, I don't think this has ever happened to me and I suspect that cache owners who behave this way are few and far between. Perhaps this will become more common if cache owners feel they are under scrutiny for having DNFs on their caches.

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