Finding caches in advance for souvenir or streak

[+Mudfrog]

My most fun of this game is our streak. I make sure to sign a log for a cache I qualify for everyday. I know others who do it differently. The day I can't find and sign one I will end it. I am very strict on that.

 

However for this earthday cache I could care less about the souvenir but I have been to this one earth cache about 5 times over the years and looked at it. Taken pictures but never came up with the answers. I was there checking one of our caches a couple of days before and looked at it again but never worked on the answers. Earth caches are not really our thing. On the earthcache day I decided it was time to finally try and come up with the answers to the questions. I put in the log and message to the CO if they were wrong to go ahead and delete them because I really didn't care about the souvenir. I picked that day for the found it because that is the day I figured out the questions. If not for the earthday cache thing it still would be unclaimed as a find. I otherwise wouldn't know what day to pick. The first day I was there, The second? I just logged it on that day. I found other caches for the streak that day. If that is cheating I will definitely change the date. Earth caches don't help with our streak because it could be denied anyways with a question being wrong or something.

 

First off, i don't care about souvenirs or how people do things to get them. You say that you "could care less about the souvenir" but you sure figured out a way to come up with a way to log for one. The day a person visits ground zero, on any type of cache, is the day that should be used for the date. Again i don't care, just stating the fact that you didn't go out and find an earthcache last Sunday.

[+dprovan]

That being said, it has literally no impact on me if others do this. I choose not to be particularly riled by lame logs, because ultimately, the person who is most affected by those is the cacher who writes them.

I pretty much agree with everything here except that last paragraph.

 

As I see it, I am playing a game called geocaching, which is being played by geocachers, of which I am one. Some other geocachers are being dishonest in how they play by claiming finds on caches they didn't actually find, or claiming to have found something on a specific day when they didn't, or basically exhibiting a lack of integrity. Not only that but there are many others that don't care if they're being associated with others that are dishonest. Maybe, the most affected is the person (who likely doesn't care) that is being dishonest, but every time it happens is soils the reputation of the game. Personally, when I tell someone who I might care what they think of me that I play a game called geocaching I would like to describe a game played by honest people that care about the environment (through CITO events), are respectful of land managers and the places where they play the game, and are people that are kind, courteous, and generous. I might be explaining the game to a land manager or a LEO and if the game has a reputation of being played in a dishonest manner by people that don't care what others think or how they play impacts others, then it's going to look bad on my just by me and everyone else that plays that game with integrity just by association.

But isn't that like scratch golfers getting upset because other golfers don't play very well, often rehit bad shots, ignore penalties, and such? I can't imagine a land manager even knowing the implications of misdating a log, let alone caring about the dishonesty of it, just as I can't imagine a golf course manager caring what score people write down on their score card.

[+redsox_mark]

For me, I do care in general if geocachers broadly follow the guidelines/spirit. For example, if completely false armchair logging became the norm, it would hurt the game (in my view).

 

But often there is grey area, and don't want to put my own interpretation as only answer others must follow.

 

The case of visiting on Saturday, doing some homework and sending the writeup on Sunday with Sunday's date is in the gray area as far as I am concerned.

 

For me it is black and white - I visited GZ on a specific date and that's the date that goes on my found log.

 

If I had to visit a location multiple times before I had the confidence to provide logging task responses I would log my find as the date of my final visit to the location - because that was the date when I completed the EC.

 

If my answers were lacking in some way though and day(s) later I managed to provide acceptable answers (which hasn't happened so far), I would still log the find at the date I last visited the location.

 

We are often reminded on here that geocaching is about location, and I think my personal standard fits with that - so I'm happy

 

A perfectly valid view (and the most sensible in my opinion). But it doesn't mean that someone who thinks dating it the date they send the report is being dishonest, or harming the image of the game. (Not your words I know). My point is there are lots of "minor" issues where some think it is black and white one way and others think differently. E.g. some think it is black and white that you must physically sigh the log, no exceptions. Others think it is OK as long as you found the cache and can provide evidence to the CO (e.g. a photo). I'm not going to get worked up about different interpretations on these "minor" issues.

[+narcissa]

I think it's a shame that they make the souvenir only available one day, and a Sunday at that. In many areas, they are few and far between, or folks have everything nearby. Why not let folks find one over at least the weekend, and perhaps even over the course of a week. This isn't like International GC day or February 29 where any kind of cache counts.

 

I wish they would do that as well, because it's on a holiday in my country. But it is an American organization that runs it, so I understand that they aren't thinking about Canadian Thanksgiving when they plan it. And for a lot of people, a holiday weekend is probably a better time for it, especially if travel is needed.

[+CanadianRockies]

The day a person visits ground zero, on any type of cache, is the day that should be used for the date.

If that's the date you want to use, then use it. But asserting that that's the "found date" everyone should use for any type of cache seems a bit close-minded to me.

 

Groundspeak doesn't consider an EarthCache to be "found" until a person both visits Ground Zero AND provides appropriate answers to certain questions. If these two requirements are met on different days, then I have no problem if someone wants to use the latter date as their "found" date.

 

To claim a "find" on a challenge cache, one must find that challenge cache's container AND meet the challenge requirements. Personally, I use the latter date for my "Found it" log.

 

[+The A-Team]

Won't somebody please think of the cache owner?!

 

Logging a find as a date other than the one where you were at GZ is not a victimless crime. noncentric already mentioned how it can make it seem like a cache is healthy, when it may not actually be:

 

Sometimes I see logs on caches where people note what day they actually found the cache, but the log date is different. For example, the log date is 10/1/2015 and the log text says something like "Found this on 8/15, but just getting around to logging it now". In such cases, they could've just set the "Date Logged" to 8/15/2015. Besides being accurate in terms of statistics, it also helps reflect the true history of the cache. In the noted example, the cache logs would be confusing if there were a bunch of DNF's in September, but then the cacher logs a find dated 10/1. Other cachers might think the cache was found on 10/1, even though the cacher had found it before it went missing.

This applies to the non-physical types too. EarthCaches and Virtuals require maintenance as well, although admittedly not as much as the physical types. As an example, a critical sign or information board may go missing, or a location may become inaccessible. If there's some funky log-dating going on, the owner (and prospective seekers) may think the cache is in good shape and findable, when it actually isn't.

[+WarNinjas]

My most fun of this game is our streak. I make sure to sign a log for a cache I qualify for everyday. I know others who do it differently. The day I can't find and sign one I will end it. I am very strict on that.

 

However for this earthday cache I could care less about the souvenir but I have been to this one earth cache about 5 times over the years and looked at it. Taken pictures but never came up with the answers. I was there checking one of our caches a couple of days before and looked at it again but never worked on the answers. Earth caches are not really our thing. On the earthcache day I decided it was time to finally try and come up with the answers to the questions. I put in the log and message to the CO if they were wrong to go ahead and delete them because I really didn't care about the souvenir. I picked that day for the found it because that is the day I figured out the questions. If not for the earthday cache thing it still would be unclaimed as a find. I otherwise wouldn't know what day to pick. The first day I was there, The second? I just logged it on that day. I found other caches for the streak that day. If that is cheating I will definitely change the date. Earth caches don't help with our streak because it could be denied anyways with a question being wrong or something.

 

First off, i don't care about souvenirs or how people do things to get them. You say that you "could care less about the souvenir" but you sure figured out a way to come up with a way to log for one. The day a person visits ground zero, on any type of cache, is the day that should be used for the date. Again i don't care, just stating the fact that you didn't go out and find an earthcache last Sunday.

This is true! It was a bad judgment on my part. It still wouldn't be logged if not for earthday, I would probably look at it again next time I check on our cache down there and still not send in any answers. If something like this comes up again I will stick to my usual way of doing things and just bring a container and a surfboard and place a cache out on the rock and not worry about what angle it is coming up out of the earth at.

[+hzoi]

I own 21 earthcaches so far (hopefully 22 soon). I've gotten messages and emails all week with answers, all of which are for logs dated on Sunday. I'm not about to start figuring out whose was on Sunday and whose wasn't; that's between each geocacher and their integrity (and perhaps the deity or deities of their choice).

 

I can tell you I took a road trip this past weekend and visited earthcache locations on both days, and I logged all of them when I returned home, using the date on which I had visited the location. It worked out nicely that a souvenir was involved. Had I missed out on it because I couldn't get to an EC location, I would not have fudged a date just because to do otherwise I'd miss a souvenir. But that's me.

 

For that matter, I missed two or three days of the 2013 31 souvenirs of August, because my daughter very inconsiderately opted to be born on the 8th of that month. I could have gone out afterward and backdated some paper logs, but I didn't.

 

People do odd things for souvenirs. I have found at least one cacher who has scores of them to his or her name. I thought, hey cool! How did they get so many? And found that they did so, at least in part, by logging finds on various events or in various places and then deleting them. That's one technique, but it ain't how I would have gotten the job done.

[+hzoi]

...

On the earthcache day I decided it was time to finally try and come up with the answers to the questions. I put in the log and message to the CO if they were wrong to go ahead and delete them because I really didn't care about the souvenir.

...

Earthcaching, like school, isn't about getting every answer right. It's about learning. That's why I've gotten away from asking questions that require specific answers and leaned more towards just having people think and try to apply concepts. When their answers diverge from what I'd consider "correct," I let them know. But their found it log stands regardless of whether they got an "A" or not, as long as they attempted to apply the lesson.

 

But I bet you know more about that earthcache site now than most others who got it "right" the first time.

[+niraD]

People do odd things for souvenirs. I have found at least one cacher who has scores of them to his or her name. I thought, hey cool! How did they get so many? And found that they did so, at least in part, by logging finds on various events or in various places and then deleting them. That's one technique, but it ain't how I would have gotten the job done.

Yeah, it seems as pointless as a fake physical souvenir. I have souvenirs from places that I didn't visit, because friends and family members brought them back from their visits. But I wouldn't try to pass them off as souvenirs from my own visit.

[+WarNinjas]

...

On the earthcache day I decided it was time to finally try and come up with the answers to the questions. I put in the log and message to the CO if they were wrong to go ahead and delete them because I really didn't care about the souvenir.

...

Earthcaching, like school, isn't about getting every answer right. It's about learning. That's why I've gotten away from asking questions that require specific answers and leaned more towards just having people think and try to apply concepts. When their answers diverge from what I'd consider "correct," I let them know. But their found it log stands regardless of whether they got an "A" or not, as long as they attempted to apply the lesson.

 

But I bet you know more about that earthcache site now than most others who got it "right" the first time.

Thanks to everyone for letting me know that the CO are not expecting the right answers always and will be willing to help. I pretty much ignore them unless it is easy and I happen to be there. Maybe I will try for more of them. I was wondering how everyone came up with the right answers. Maybe just trying is good enough. I did one a while back that just asked basically what altitude you were at. I could handle that and it was kind of fun.

[+Dame Deco]

In all honesty, though--I have to tell you that the majority of EC owners never email you back, even if you ask for help. I always do, and I think EC owners should--but many don't.

[+Mudfrog]

The day a person visits ground zero, on any type of cache, is the day that should be used for the date.

If that's the date you want to use, then use it. But asserting that that's the "found date" everyone should use for any type of cache seems a bit close-minded to me.

 

Groundspeak doesn't consider an EarthCache to be "found" until a person both visits Ground Zero AND provides appropriate answers to certain questions. If these two requirements are met on different days, then I have no problem if someone wants to use the latter date as their "found" date.

 

To claim a "find" on a challenge cache, one must find that challenge cache's container AND meet the challenge requirements. Personally, I use the latter date for my "Found it" log.

 

 

Not quite the same, at least from my point of view. A challenge cache with instructions from it's CO to go ahead and sign the log, then meet qualifications later is different from an earthcache where a person usually locates the information needed to answer questions at the time of their visit. Earthcache COs, at least the ones i've done, depend on me to get the answers while i'm on site.

[+CanadianRockies]

The day a person visits ground zero, on any type of cache, is the day that should be used for the date.

 

(Emphasis added.)

If that's the date you want to use, then use it. But asserting that that's the "found date" everyone should use for any type of cache seems a bit close-minded to me.

 

Groundspeak doesn't consider an EarthCache to be "found" until a person both visits Ground Zero AND provides appropriate answers to certain questions. If these two requirements are met on different days, then I have no problem if someone wants to use the latter date as their "found" date.

 

To claim a "find" on a challenge cache, one must find that challenge cache's container AND meet the challenge requirements. Personally, I use the latter date for my "Found it" log.

 

 

Not quite the same, at least from my point of view. A challenge cache with instructions from it's CO to go ahead and sign the log, then meet qualifications later is different from an earthcache where a person usually locates the information needed to answer questions at the time of their visit. Earthcache COs, at least the ones i've done, depend on me to get the answers while i'm on site.

First, if you agree that a challenge cache could legitimately have a "found date" that differs from the Ground Zero visitation date, then your original statement should be modified.

 

Second, even though people usually obtain their answers for an EarthCache during the GZ visit, they still shouldn't claim a "Found it" for that EarthCache until they send those answers to the cache owner. Therefore, using the date they qualified for the "Found it" as their "found date" seems perfectly legitimate to me. Your mileage might vary, however.

[+Harry Dolphin]

So. Have we answered the OP's original question?

 

Finding caches in advance for souvenir or streak Is it OK to find a cache in advance for a souvenir or streak?

 

It's called lying and cheating.

[+Mudfrog]

The day a person visits ground zero, on any type of cache, is the day that should be used for the date.

 

(Emphasis added.)

If that's the date you want to use, then use it. But asserting that that's the "found date" everyone should use for any type of cache seems a bit close-minded to me.

 

Groundspeak doesn't consider an EarthCache to be "found" until a person both visits Ground Zero AND provides appropriate answers to certain questions. If these two requirements are met on different days, then I have no problem if someone wants to use the latter date as their "found" date.

 

To claim a "find" on a challenge cache, one must find that challenge cache's container AND meet the challenge requirements. Personally, I use the latter date for my "Found it" log.

 

 

Not quite the same, at least from my point of view. A challenge cache with instructions from it's CO to go ahead and sign the log, then meet qualifications later is different from an earthcache where a person usually locates the information needed to answer questions at the time of their visit. Earthcache COs, at least the ones i've done, depend on me to get the answers while i'm on site.

First, if you agree that a challenge cache could legitimately have a "found date" that differs from the Ground Zero visitation date, then your original statement should be modified.

 

Second, even though people usually obtain their answers for an EarthCache during the GZ visit, they still shouldn't claim a "Found it" for that EarthCache until they send those answers to the cache owner. Therefore, using the date they qualified for the "Found it" as their "found date" seems perfectly legitimate to me. Your mileage might vary, however.

 

Suppose you are right ,, mileage will vary. Thing is, no matter what techniques/excuses are used, we all know what's going on here. I agree with Harry Dolphin above but again, i don't really care either.

[Keystone]

This nine-year old thread was bumped to ask an unrelated question, so I'm locking the thread.

 

To answer the question asked by @IXLegionAD120, the cache owner can delete online logs where there's no corresponding signature in the logbook.  Cases of abuse, like finding caches all over the world in one day, can be reported to Geocaching HQ via the Help Center.  This is preferable to "naming and shaming" posts in the discussion forum.