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Earthcache near physical cache

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What are the rules for earthcaches near physical caches? We have written this in GeoWiki:

- if there is physical cache and listing is about geology, earthcache can not be published

- if there is physical cache and listing is not about geology, earthcache can be listed at least 50 meters away

...is it still valid?

A few days ago there was published this earthcache. It is 30 meters from physical cache, listing is identical. Reviewer reaction was "nobody reads listings of traditional caches", does it mean we can duplicate all geologically oriented physical caches?

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What are the rules for earthcaches near physical caches? We have written this in GeoWiki:

- if there is physical cache and listing is about geology, earthcache can not be published

- if there is physical cache and listing is not about geology, earthcache can be listed at least 50 meters away

...is it still valid?

A few days ago there was published this earthcache. It is 30 meters from physical cache, listing is identical. Reviewer reaction was "nobody reads listings of traditional caches", does it mean we can duplicate all geologically oriented physical caches?

 

I have an Earthcache and a Traditional at the same location, but one is not a copy of the other. I see no reason not to publish GC5PJ5V, but I disagree with the reviewer the no one reads the cache pages of a traditional listing.

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What are the rules for earthcaches near physical caches? We have written this in GeoWiki:

- if there is physical cache and listing is about geology, earthcache can not be published

- if there is physical cache and listing is not about geology, earthcache can be listed at least 50 meters away

...is it still valid?

A few days ago there was published this earthcache. It is 30 meters from physical cache, listing is identical. Reviewer reaction was "nobody reads listings of traditional caches", does it mean we can duplicate all geologically oriented physical caches?

 

Guidelines

http://www.geocaching.com/about/guidelines.aspx

 

1. Fundamental Placement Guidelines

 

7. Physical elements of different geocaches should be at least 0.10 miles (528 ft or 161 m) apart.

 

A physical stage is defined as any waypoint that contains a physical element placed by the cache owner, such as a container or a tag with the next set of coordinates. Non-physical caches or stages, including reference points, trail-head/parking coordinates and/or a virtual stage waypoints, are exempt from this guideline. Additionally, within a single multi-cache or mystery/puzzle cache, there is no minimum required distance between physical elements. The graphic below shows a few examples of what is and is not acceptable in terms of cache saturation.

 

EarthCaches are exempt from this guideline as they do not have physical waypoints.

 

 

B.

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Earthcaches are exempt from the proximity guideline, but it's best to keep them a little apart from other caches because otherwise they overlap each other on the map and it can be hard to tell that there are two different caches in the same spot.

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In addition to the Guidelines listed by Pup Patrol, there is also the following Help Center article:

 

2.4. Creating an EarthCache: Additional Tips

http://support.Groundspeak.com/index.php?pg=kb.page&id=295

 

Proximity

 

An EarthCache may be placed near a physical geocache (traditional or final stage of a mystery/multi). However, we ask that you do not place it at the exact same coordinates, in order to avoid confusion that the geocache container belongs to the EarthCache.

 

If an existing physical geocache highlights the same feature as a new EarthCache submission, the EarthCache listing may be rejected. Content rather than physical proximity is the guiding factor when determining what can be published.

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In addition to the Guidelines listed by Pup Patrol, there is also the following Help Center article:

 

2.4. Creating an EarthCache: Additional Tips

http://support.Groundspeak.com/index.php?pg=kb.page&id=295

 

Proximity

 

An EarthCache may be placed near a physical geocache (traditional or final stage of a mystery/multi). However, we ask that you do not place it at the exact same coordinates, in order to avoid confusion that the geocache container belongs to the EarthCache.

 

If an existing physical geocache highlights the same feature as a new EarthCache submission, the EarthCache listing may be rejected. Content rather than physical proximity is the guiding factor when determining what can be published.

Interesting. I've read that section many times, but I must have always missed the word "physical". I didn't realize a physical cache could affect the publication of an EarthCache.

 

You learn something every day! :laughing:

 

In light of that Help Center article, the wording in the OP with specific distances would seem to be incorrect. The Help Center explicitly states that content, not proximity, is the factor.

Edited by The A-Team

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Reviewer reaction was "nobody reads listings of traditional caches", does it mean we can duplicate all geologically oriented physical caches?

 

This is an alarming thing to hear from a reviewer.

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This is news to me, too. I don't remember anything about the "feature" of a Traditional affecting a potential Earthcache at the same location.

 

If there's been a change, it would be nice to know when that came into effect.

 

 

B.

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This is news to me, too. I don't remember anything about the "feature" of a Traditional affecting a potential Earthcache at the same location.

 

If there's been a change, it would be nice to know when that came into effect.

 

 

B.

I thought the same thing. When I plugged that Help Center article into the Wayback machine, that clause has been there since at least Jan 22, 2011 (the oldest archived version of that page). There doesn't appear to have been a section for "Creating EarthCaches" prior to late-2010/early-2011, so that must have been when it was added.

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I can't read the Czech text, but the English traditional one doesn't contain anything that sounds like an earthscience lesson. As the owner of the traditional I would be annoyed about the EC using my photo and would complain about it. Unless the traditional plagiarized it in the first place. Then both COs deserve a spanking.

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What are the rules for earthcaches near physical caches? We have written this in GeoWiki:

- if there is physical cache and listing is about geology, earthcache can not be published

 

The Help Center states the following

If an existing physical geocache highlights the same feature as a new EarthCache submission, the EarthCache listing may be rejected. Content rather than physical proximity is the guiding factor when determining what can be published.

 

An EarthCache reviewer nearby caches. The local reviewer does not review EarthCaches. However if the EarthCache reviewer feels there is a problem he may deny it, though I only know of one instance in the last five years.

 

- if there is physical cache and listing is not about geology, earthcache can be listed at least 50 meters away

...is it still valid?

I do not believe so.

It is in poor taste to drop it right on top of the other cache, but there is no rule that you cant. You may be asked to move it a little ways. Remember as a cache owner, some new cachers will find the container of the physical cache, and log your earthcache, and you will be the bad guy.

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I can't read the Czech text, but the English traditional one doesn't contain anything that sounds like an earthscience lesson. As the owner of the traditional I would be annoyed about the EC using my photo and would complain about it. Unless the traditional plagiarized it in the first place. Then both COs deserve a spanking.

 

The photos in the two caches discussed above show the same feature but are different. But, yes, earthcache, traditional cache, or any other cache owner should respect copyright and photo ownership.

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As the owner of the traditional I would be annoyed about the EC using my photo and would complain about it. Unless the traditional plagiarized it in the first place. Then both COs deserve a spanking.

 

Many ECs simply use photos from the internet including photos on which people are shown. I once pointed that out for two ECs in my area to the reviewer (in addition to another concern about the logging questions). What happened was that the two ECs became PM-only - they still contain the same plagiarized photos from many different websites. Some ECs are set up without the owner having been there recently, but noone seems to care. That's pretty much the same as hardly anyone seems to care when so many EC owners do not reply to sent answer mails.

 

The interesting thing in connection to EC and traditional is that many cachers seem to think that a traditional with geological information is less valuable than an EC and this might lead to the situation that they are even happy with an EC dealing with the same topic than a nearby previously existing physical cache.

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The duplication of material is interesting, but the more relevant portion of the Guidelines that appears germane to this situation might be:

 

EarthCaches with information that is copied from other sources, plagiarized, or used without proper attribution will not be published. Limited amounts of text may be quoted, but must be properly attributed.

 

I don't pretend to be a master of the language in those Listings, but using an online translator as a poor substitute, the EC does appear to be a cut/paste job of the nearby Traditional.

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Unless I am missing something. The two caches listed in post #1 are similar but not the same photo.

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Unless I am missing something. The two caches listed in post #1 are similar but not the same photo.

I was referring to the text in the Descriptions. The EC appears to be word for word of the Traditional Description. Someone with better linguistic skills than myself will have to make that determination more conclusive.

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I own 3 Earthcaches. The first is at "Crack in the Ground". The coordinates given are at the entrance to the crack. I give the number of steps to take and the direction to get to the point to answer the questions. There is no way to get a GPS signal inside the crack. I put a peanut butter jar cache at the spot under a rock so that people would know that they were in the right spot. You do not have to find the physical cache to claim the Earthcache. I wrote a code inside the cap of the jar so that I can be sure that you found the right spot.

My second EC I developed is at Twin Fault. I found the ammocan cache of meltupper and decided that the area would be a good EC. My coordinates are about 120' from Melanie's cache.

My third EC is at one of the waypoints of Volcanoguy's multi on the south side of Paulina Peak. I used (with permission) some of Bill's (Volcanoguy) book on the geology of Central Oregon for my third EC which qualified me as a Platinum EC Master.

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