Multi logging a cache

[+the Seagnoid]

My only peeve about geocaching.com is that it counts Found It logs, not caches, and the support it has for logging more than one Found It log on a cache. Recent changes make it look like the website is actively supporting this method (for those who really like going for the numbers and just want to find the nearby cache every day?)

 

There were historical reasons why multiple logs on a single cache were allowed, but that does not seem to apply anymore. And now the website has removed the "You have x finds on y unique caches" which alerted me to my accidental double log. Yes, I can get this from other sites, but at least geocaching.com would let me know.

 

Me, I'd like to see gc.com change to prevent double Found It logging. Existing double logs would stay (historical reasons, remember). And while we are on that topic, deny finds of own caches, which are against the rules yet are allowed. (Okay, there are two peeves!)

 

I appreciate that it is about how you cache, and that while I don't like the ability to double log, others might.

 

What do you think?

 

Tom

[+cerberus1]

While I kinda agree, there are caches that folks can log a number of times.

There's a few moving caches still around.

A couple countries have caches which allow multi logging on benchmark finds, as Groundspeak only covers benchmarks in the US.

- Not sure why that is though, since in the US, benchmarks don't count as finds.

[+Gitchee-Gummee]

I don't believe there are any "rules", only guidelines. Rules have enforceable consequences, guidelines do not.

 

Think back... in the past, they tried to enforce guidelines regarding trackables. Now, they don't.

So-to-speak, you do what you want with trackables.

Use the same number as much as you want; invite folks to "Discover" at will, etc. Used to be they would lock a trackable for such misuse, not any more.

 

 

If Groundspeak were to aggressively enforce the guidelines as rules, they would lose a lot of Premium Members.... and, money talks, ya know.

 

Do keep in mind, that it is a for-profit business -- a listing service. It doesn't exist for your enjoyment, it exists for income.

Edited February 23, 2015 by Gitchee-Gummee

[+steben6]

There are a lot of challenge caches that can be logged more than once depending on the requirements - different levels of the challenge or completing the requirements more than once, and you can log the find again.

[+tozainamboku]

If Groundspeak were to aggressively enforce the guidelines as rules, they would lose a lot of Premium Members.... and, money talks, ya know.

I don't believe that would happen.

 

Most premium member and most "for the numbers" cachers (which you seem to imply premium members are) don't inflate their numbers with duplicate find or even with logging their own caches.

 

Sure there are some people who log multiple times or log their own caches today because they can do so. If they were unable to do so and knew that everyone else was unable to do so they would likely accept this as a "rule". Cachers in areas where they practice multi-logging events to get "credit" for finding temporary caches will find some other way to "credit" the temporary finds.

 

The objection I have to making this a rule (and I hope the reason that Groundspeak isn't interested in changing the website/API to enforce this) is that it encourages the WIGAS (Woohoo! I get another smiley) culture.

 

Many geocachers rarely look at the find count and when they do they accept that it as simply a count of the number of Found It, Attended, and Picture Taken logs. While some people may post these logs to get a bigger number, most people are simply reporting that they found the cache, attended an event, or took a webcam photo. For various reasons they may want to use these logs multiple times on the same cache. Maybe they pass the webcam everyday and take another picture of themselves. Sure that might annoy someone who sees the find count as score, but to someone who doesn't, it might seem like fun to share their daily interaction with the webcam.

 

I suppose there will always be geocachers who view the find count as some kind of score and they will either "cheat" by claiming duplicate finds or be the first to label someone else as a "cheater" for doing so. In my view both are equally silly.

[+Mausebiber]

Sure that might annoy someone who sees the find count as score, but to someone who doesn't, it might seem like fun to share their daily interaction with the webcam.

Yes that's possible.

The question I have is, why don't they log there daily interaction with the webcam as a Note? Does it has to be a "found"?

 

Best greetings

MB

[+Walts Hunting]

Sure that might annoy someone who sees the find count as score, but to someone who doesn't, it might seem like fun to share their daily interaction with the webcam.

Yes that's possible.

The question I have is, why don't they log there daily interaction with the webcam as a Note? Does it has to be a "found"?

 

Best greetings

MB

Because a note doesn't increase your find count

[+palmetto]

It seems that your objection is to loss of "x finds on y unique caches"?

 

You might try posting it that way, rather than as a rant about other people's logging practices.

 

I don't why it was dropped. There was some complaint about it at the time. I assume a server hit is involved in making the calculation, so it was dropped for the sake of faster response time. If you care, you can work it out in other ways. I agree that a good many, especially novices, probably only noticed that they had duplicate logs because of that statement.

 

Just speculating here.

[+GeoLog81]

It's not historical because there are still 'cyclic' events, where the owners change the date each time instead of publishing new event, and it makes perfectly sense to log them each time you attend.

 

It makes also perfectly sense to log multiple DNFs, notes or NMs. It's probably allowed to log multiple 'Found' only because it was easier to implement no exception for them...

[+tozainamboku]

Sure that might annoy someone who sees the find count as score, but to someone who doesn't, it might seem like fun to share their daily interaction with the webcam.

Yes that's possible.

The question I have is, why don't they log there daily interaction with the webcam as a Note? Does it has to be a "found"?

 

Best greetings

MB

Because a note doesn't increase your find count

Because the log is 'Webcam Phote Taken' and they took a webcam photo?

 

It's only a problem if you view the find count as a score. If it is just a count you are free to decide to only count distinct caches one time. Someone else may decide to count differently.

 

Perhaps what we need is an option to display unique counts. Then if you can't bear that others don't share your view of the find count, you could ask to see only the unique counts. Beware that this may result in lab caches not being counted (see below).

 

It seems that your objection is to loss of "x finds on y unique caches"?

 

You might try posting it that way, rather than as a rant about other people's logging practices.

 

I don't why it was dropped. There was some complaint about it at the time. I assume a server hit is involved in making the calculation, so it was dropped for the sake of faster response time. If you care, you can work it out in other ways. I agree that a good many, especially novices, probably only noticed that they had duplicate logs because of that statement.

 

Just speculating here.

The issue came about because of lab caches. These counted in the total count but not the unique count. So even people who never posted a duplicate log were seeing a mismatch. I don't know why they just didn't fix the unique count to include lab caches. Instead they removed the unique count and said that people found it confusing.

Edited February 23, 2015 by tozainamboku

[+Chrysalides]

It's not historical because there are still 'cyclic' events, where the owners change the date each time instead of publishing new event, and it makes perfectly sense to log them each time you attend.

Is that common today? Seems that it could get rather messy.

 

It makes also perfectly sense to log multiple DNFs, notes or NMs. It's probably allowed to log multiple 'Found' only because it was easier to implement no exception for them...

It's not expensive to check whether a cache has already been found by a user (otherwise they won't show the smiley face on the upper right corner of a cache page that you've found). I don't think the reason is technical.