Deleting a log will not remove the "earned" souvenir

[+alsterdrache]

Hi team,

 

Imagine the case that a geocacher from Canada bogus logs a virtual in Luxembourg, Europe, they then will "earn" the country souvenir along with the point for the virtual (this one here is a current example). If this log will be deleted later on, the souvenir still stays in their profile though.

 

This seems to be a bug on the website and should be fixed (for the sake of justice: It's just something else to take a picture someplace in Northern America and receive a point and souvenir from Europe for it or to travel there and do it the right way).

 

Viele Grüße, Alex

[+T.D.M.22]

This isn't anything new. If it bothers you, you can choose to hide that particular souvenir. I think you can also delete them.

[+NYPaddleCacher]

This isn't anything new. If it bothers you, you can choose to hide that particular souvenir. I think you can also delete them.

 

You can hide a souvenir in your own profile so that others can't see it, but I believe only GS can completely delete it.

 

The cache referenced in Luxembourg is being treated like a locationless (reverse) cache. I thought GS had created a list of locationless caches that would be excluded for the awarding of souvenirs and perhaps this one wasn't on it.

 

 

[+Isonzo Karst]

Moun10Bike has explained that removing souvenirs when logs are deleted would be quite costly in server time. ALL of the cacher's other finds would have to be examined to see if any of them qualified the cacher for the souvenir.

 

This may annoy you and others, but it hasn't been deemed worth the server time to deal with it.

 

Any souvenir that you may have in error (which can happen if you mistakenly log a cache) you can use the Help Centercontact to have removed.

[jholly]

This isn't anything new. If it bothers you, you can choose to hide that particular souvenir. I think you can also delete them.

Hide yes, Delete no.

[+alsterdrache]

As I have clearly stated in my original posting, it's not about me but about this bunch of fake logger from Canada and elsewhere who logged that virtual in Luxembourg with a picture taken in - say - Vancouver and got both the point and the souvenir for this tiny European country as well: Some people should read postings more carefully before replying here ... And in the end, those bogus loggers from North America will keep the souvenir while others had to invest time, money, and a lot of effort to vist the site of the virtual. That really sucks! And yes, it's just a game but each game has its own rules. Apart from the current virtual example, it still IS a bug that such souvenirs stay in the profiles in question and don't vanish automatically.

[+GeoTrekker26]

As I have clearly stated in my original posting, it's not about me but about this bunch of fake logger from Canada and elsewhere who logged that virtual in Luxembourg with a picture taken in - say - Vancouver and got both the point and the souvenir for this tiny European country as well: Some people should read postings more carefully before replying here ... And in the end, those bogus loggers from North America will keep the souvenir while others had to invest time, money, and a lot of effort to vist the site of the virtual. That really sucks! And yes, it's just a game but each game has its own rules. Apart from the current virtual example, it still IS a bug that such souvenirs stay in the profiles in question and don't vanish automatically.

 

It might be called a bug but since it causes no problems and would expensive to fix, why bother? Does anybody even look at the souvenir pages?

[+dprovan]

It might be called a bug but since it causes no problems and would expensive to fix, why bother? Does anybody even look at the souvenir pages?

Of course it's a bug. There's no "might be called" about it. But I, too, assume it's expensive to fix, otherwise it would have worked right to begin with.

 

We have ironclad evidence that one person looks at souvenir pages and thinks them being wrong is a problem: the OP.

 

Anyway, as I recall, Groundspeak can remove souvenirs manually, and if someone's intentionally logging fake finds to gather souvenirs, GS might be interested to hear about it.

[+Bear and Ragged]

As I have clearly stated in my original posting, it's not about me but about this bunch of fake logger from Canada and elsewhere who logged that virtual in Luxembourg with a picture taken in - say - Vancouver and got both the point and the souvenir for this tiny European country as well: Some people should read postings more carefully before replying here ... And in the end, those bogus loggers from North America will keep the souvenir while others had to invest time, money, and a lot of effort to vist the site of the virtual. That really sucks! And yes, it's just a game but each game has its own rules. Apart from the current virtual example, it still IS a bug that such souvenirs stay in the profiles in question and don't vanish automatically.

 

Cache has been bought to the attention of a reviewer.

 

It originally accepted Moai from ANY location...

(Which really made it a Locationless cache, now moved to Waymarking, rather than a Virtual)

 

Owner Maintenance

15/Feb/2015

 

I wil delete all log's with no coord's or picture's in the log

and will set it back to the original location in Luxembourg.

So only a real visit to the location there will be accepted.

 

Things have now been returned to 'Normal'

[+T.D.M.22]

As I have clearly stated in my original posting, it's not about me but about this bunch of fake logger from Canada and elsewhere who logged that virtual in Luxembourg with a picture taken in - say - Vancouver and got both the point and the souvenir for this tiny European country as well: Some people should read postings more carefully before replying here ... And in the end, those bogus loggers from North America will keep the souvenir while others had to invest time, money, and a lot of effort to vist the site of the virtual. That really sucks! And yes, it's just a game but each game has its own rules. Apart from the current virtual example, it still IS a bug that such souvenirs stay in the profiles in question and don't vanish automatically.

 

Then don't look at their souvenirs. Yes they cheated and it's not fair. But in the end it's just a picture on their profile that means nothing. Automatic deletion would be the easiest, but as explained in a post by Isonzo Karst it's really not as easy as it seems.

[+tozainamboku]

Does anybody even look at the souvenir pages?

Obviously the OP looks.

 

Sure, I'm one of those who think souvenirs are hokey and probably we'd be better off if we didn't have them. But clearly there are some people who look at them as s "souvenir" that you you get because you achieved something. If you really didn't find a cache in Luxembourg, then it makes no sense to have a souvenir for finding a cache in Luxembourg. TPTB can decide that they aren't going to fix the bug because it would be too costly to scan someone's finds when a log gets deleted. They should, and I believe they have, acknowledge this is a bug.

 

My personal opinion is that while checking for souvenirs than a user may no longer qualify for when a found log is deleted is an expensive operation, I doubt it happens often enough to bring down the servers. But the Groundspeak developers are better able to answer this.

[+alsterdrache]

"Don't look at the souvenirs?" - Well, all this is part of the game. Therefore, everything should work in 100 % accordance with the guidelines and also website-wise technically 100 % correct! It's not about me, it's about fairness for the community.

 

If there are geocachers that fake-log this virtual in literally vast masses, they should be stopped and the souvenir should be removed from their profile. But nobody will remove them manually - and yes, this bothers me. As I said above, others invested time, effort, and money to visit the site in Luxembourg but both the bogus loggers and the correct loggers end up with the same points and souvenirs. Why should anybody respect any guidelines if all end up with the same rewards?

 

A reviewer colleague will not delete any logs since this is the obligation of the owner team. They posted a note to care for all this in the future but asked for patience ...

[+NYPaddleCacher]

As I have clearly stated in my original posting, it's not about me but about this bunch of fake logger from Canada and elsewhere who logged that virtual in Luxembourg with a picture taken in - say - Vancouver and got both the point and the souvenir for this tiny European country as well: Some people should read postings more carefully before replying here ... And in the end, those bogus loggers from North America will keep the souvenir while others had to invest time, money, and a lot of effort to vist the site of the virtual. That really sucks! And yes, it's just a game but each game has its own rules. Apart from the current virtual example, it still IS a bug that such souvenirs stay in the profiles in question and don't vanish automatically.

 

Then don't look at their souvenirs. Yes they cheated and it's not fair. But in the end it's just a picture on their profile that means nothing.

 

I assume that like many people you have pictures of your family or relatives on the walls, end tables or other locations around the house. If nobody else looks at them does that mean that they still mean nothing? Just like physical souvenirs acquired while visiting some location, digital souvenirs might mean something to those that have acquired them. They're not intended to mean anything to anyone else, but that doesn't make them meaningless.

[+tozainamboku]

"Don't look at the souvenirs?" - Well, all this is part of the game. Therefore, everything should work in 100 % accordance with the guidelines and also website-wise technically 100 % correct! It's not about me, it's about fairness for the community.

 

If there are geocachers that fake-log this virtual in literally vast masses, they should be stopped and the souvenir should be removed from their profile. But nobody will remove them manually - and yes, this bothers me. As I said above, others invested time, effort, and money to visit the site in Luxembourg but both the bogus loggers and the correct loggers end up with the same points and souvenirs. Why should anybody respect any guidelines if all end up with the same rewards?

 

A reviewer colleague will not delete any logs since this is the obligation of the owner team. They posted a note to care for all this in the future but asked for patience ...

It certainly is a bug that souvenirs that were awarded base on a find log are not retracted if that find log is deleted. However, in English we have an expression; "Don't get your knickers in a twist". It means don't get upset over things that are not very important.

 

The fact is that that souvenirs have no real value. Perhaps some will look at their souvenirs to remember that cache they really did find on a trip to Luxembourg. But few pay much attention to someone else's souvenir. And if someone has the souvenir for Luxembourg, it isn't hard to check elsewhere in the stats to see whether they really cached in Luxembourg or not.

 

I assume that like many people you have pictures of your family or relatives on the walls, end tables or other locations around the house. If nobody else looks at them does that mean that they still mean nothing? Just like physical souvenirs acquired while visiting some location, digital souvenirs might mean something to those that have acquired them. They're not intended to mean anything to anyone else, but that doesn't make them meaningless.

I don't get my knickers in a twist because Grandma has a picture of some child on the wall who isn't a cousin.

[+NYPaddleCacher]

"Don't look at the souvenirs?" - Well, all this is part of the game. Therefore, everything should work in 100 % accordance with the guidelines and also website-wise technically 100 % correct! It's not about me, it's about fairness for the community.

 

If there are geocachers that fake-log this virtual in literally vast masses, they should be stopped and the souvenir should be removed from their profile. But nobody will remove them manually - and yes, this bothers me. As I said above, others invested time, effort, and money to visit the site in Luxembourg but both the bogus loggers and the correct loggers end up with the same points and souvenirs. Why should anybody respect any guidelines if all end up with the same rewards?

 

A reviewer colleague will not delete any logs since this is the obligation of the owner team. They posted a note to care for all this in the future but asked for patience ...

It certainly is a bug that souvenirs that were awarded base on a find log are not retracted if that find log is deleted. However, in English we have an expression; "Don't get your knickers in a twist". It means don't get upset over things that are not very important.

 

I can think of some other expression but they're likely going to get me banned, and are something that I might use when someone tells me what should be important to me.

 

 

The fact is that that souvenirs have no real value. Perhaps some will look at their souvenirs to remember that cache they really did find on a trip to Luxembourg. But few pay much attention to someone else's souvenir. And if someone has the souvenir for Luxembourg, it isn't hard to check elsewhere in the stats to see whether they really cached in Luxembourg or not.

 

I assume that like many people you have pictures of your family or relatives on the walls, end tables or other locations around the house. If nobody else looks at them does that mean that they still mean nothing? Just like physical souvenirs acquired while visiting some location, digital souvenirs might mean something to those that have acquired them. They're not intended to mean anything to anyone else, but that doesn't make them meaningless.

I don't get my knickers in a twist because Grandma has a picture of some child on the wall who isn't a cousin.

 

Once again, you miss the point.

 

I may not care what pictures Grandma has on her wall but I think it would be rude of me to tell Grandma that the pictures *she chose* to put on her wall have no value to her. They may not have any value to me, or to you, but Grandma might consider them to be priceless.

 

 

 

[+MartyBartfast]

 

I don't get my knickers in a twist because Grandma has a picture of some child on the wall who isn't a cousin.

 

 

Once again, you miss the point.

 

I may not care what pictures Grandma has on her wall but I think it would be rude of me to tell Grandma that the pictures *she chose* to put on her wall have no value to her. They may not have any value to me, or to you, but Grandma might consider them to be priceless.

 

It looks to me that both of you are expressing the same opinion, though in slightly different ways. You both think that the pictures (and hence souvenirs) are important to Grandma, and nobody else should worry (or complain) about which pictures (or souvenirs) she displays. Similarly we should look at our own souvenirs to remember our adventures and nobody else should be complaining about which souvenirs we have collected, whether or not they are "deserved".

[+The A-Team]

I'll offer a slightly different analogy to describe the situation:

 

Let's say you traveled to Luxembourg, and when you got back you hung a photo from that trip on your wall alongside photos from other trips.

Let's then say that some random person in another country hangs a photo of Luxembourg on their wall, even though they haven't traveled to Luxembourg. Let's even say that they tell their friends that they've traveled to Luxembourg.

 

How does it affect you? Even on the off-chance that you visit their home and notice the "bogus" photo, does it at all diminish your trip to Luxembourg?

 

Yes, it would be nice if there was an automated system to remove that photo from their wall, but is it really worth the time, effort, and money to create such a system? If the photo is left there, who is it really harming?

[+EngPhil]

[snarky reply deleted by poster]

Edited February 17, 2015 by EngPhil