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Waymark Plagiarism

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All,

 

A fellow Waymarker (who will stay anonymous) notified me today of a recently approved waymark involving blatant plagiarism. The waymarker in question (who will also stay anonymous... for now) used one of my photos from two existing Waymarks as well as one from another Waymarker's visit to my Waymark to create a waymark of his own. Not only that, he used much of the text I wrote in my long description in his long description.

 

I am EXTREMELY UPSET to discover this occurred and wanted to make this aware to all of you in the Waymarking community. Be VERY conscientious of plagiarism in general, not only regarding your own waymarks but as a possible officer or leader of a category where you're approving a waymark from someone else.

 

I sent a message to the guilty party and have given him 24 hours to delete/archive his Waymark or face a formal written complaint by Yours Truly to the Groundspeak admins to deal with this matter.

 

But to show him what a nice guy I am, I offered to create an assisted Waymark with him, giving us BOTH credit, since he discovered a category to fit the subject matter into that I hadn't thought about. I've never been part of an assisted Waymark but this would be a good opportunity to do one.

 

I know that Waymarking is a game/hobby/interest, etc. but I also feel that taking someone else's photos/text and utilizing them for your own benefit is nothing more than CHEATING the game. I know that this Wamrker in question is trying to fulfill as many categories as he can (I'm doing it too) but he's doing it the lazy and cheap way. Shame on him and shame on anyone else who thinks she or he will get away with it because it will catch up to them, eventually, like it did with this particular Waymark.

 

Doug

thebeav69

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Why is it wrong to use someone else's photo for your waymark?

 

Are you serious????

 

So... You would be perfectly content with someone from say, Oregon, taking a couple of YOUR pictures that you used in a waymark of a Centenarian's grave that YOU waymarked in Oklahoma and found another category waymark to use YOUR pictures in??? Not only that, this person will borrow most of the text YOU created in YOUR long description and use it for THEIR description. And this person hasn't even traveled to Oklahoma nor visited any of the waymark locations you created. There's a term for someone who does this: ARMCHAIR WAYMARKER. It's lazy, cheap and WRONG.

 

Anyone who does this kind of Waymarking has ABSOLUTELY NO PLACE in the community and should be singled out and shone the door...

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Why is it wrong to use someone else's photo for your waymark?

 

There is nothing wrong with it as long as permission was asked of the original waymarker, that permission was granted by the original waymarker and proper credit is given to the original waymarker. From the TOU:

 

"All content you submit through our services remains yours; this includes your geocache logs and pictures, your comments and anything you post to our discussion forums."

 

Thus the photos that are in your waymark remain your property. If a third party wishes to use that property then they must the owners permission. This is for other websites, publications or other waymarkers. If you post an uncategorized waymark you are granting other waymarkers to use the photos you posted to it but a regular waymark that permission is not granted.

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Why is it wrong to use someone else's photo for your waymark?

 

There is nothing wrong with it as long as permission was asked of the original waymarker photographer, that permission was granted by the original waymarker photographer and proper credit is given to the original waymarker photographer. From the TOU:

 

"All content you submit through our services remains yours; this includes your geocache logs and pictures, your comments and anything you post to our discussion forums."

 

Thus the photos that are in your waymark remain your property. If a third party wishes to use that property then they must the owners permission. This is for other websites, publications or other waymarkers. If you post an uncategorized waymark you are granting other waymarkers to use the photos you posted to it but a regular waymark that permission is not granted.

 

Exactly. I would agree wholeheartedly with your response, with the changes shown above.

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NO permission was granted and NO proper credit was given to me nor the other waymarker, who's picture he used as well.

 

It's been 24 hours and I've heard nothing from the guilty party so I've notified the category leader/officers to delete/archive the waymark in question. Let's hope they do the right thing and honor my request.

 

It's too bad certain individuals would rather waymark from the comfort of their home rather than take the time to actually visit a location and do it the right way.

 

:mad:

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This is a hobby. Not everyone responds immediately to messages. If your email is anything like your forum post, odds are good that the message went into the "delete" bin.

 

Consider the possibility that the other waymarker just didn't know any better and simply needed a polite reminder about asking permission and giving credit to the photographer. Stealing text from cache descriptions, other waymark descriptions, etc. is commonplace. It would be fun to do a study on your waymarks and see if there was any unattributed copying of Wikipedia text, but not fun enough to make it worth my time.

 

Good luck in your quest for justice.

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Maybe, just maybe, the person who used your photo was under the impression you wouldn't mind:

 

"You are required to include a minimum of two original photos in your waymark submission: One photo of the food item itself (it can be taken off a website, an advertisement in an eatery, etc. if you're not participating in the contest)"

 

Do you think the photographers of those restaurant food items mind other people using the photos they took, instead of going to the restaurant and taking their own pic?

 

I DO agree with you that it is NOT OK for someone else to use your photos without your permission and acknowledgement. But we owe that same courtesy to others. If this happened to me, I'd be upset too!

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Crisis averted! The waymarker in question replied to me just a bit ago and agreed to archive the waymark. He would like to get credit for any waymark I create in the category that he just deleted it from.

 

My question to you all is this: How does one create an assisted waymark with another person. I would like to create a waymark with this person and share credit.

 

Lessons learned:

 

DO NOT create a waymark using other peoples' photos/text without FIRST getting permission from the owner of the photos/text.

----------------------------------------------

DO NOT create waymarks of distant locations from home without at least visiting the location in person and obtaining your own experiences. It is unethical, counterproductive to the hobby of Waymarking and just plain lazy.

----------------------------------------------

 

I feel much better now. :D

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Much of the responses I read above emphasized the impoliteness of using the photographs without asking; to which I agree. Besides rules and regulations, there is also something a lot of folks forget about today: common courtesy.

 

But the other aspect mentioned, just grabbing the wording and reusing it really shows the greedy attitude (there's probably a better word for it, but I can't think of it just now) of the lazy waymarker. I don't know the waymarks in question, and I don't really want to know. But I know that it takes some thought to create the description of a good waymark -- a lot more work even than pushing the shutter button (although I'm not minimizing the photo issue). Copying the description wording without asking really shows a disregard for common courtesy.

 

I have reused one other person's photo for one of my waymarks, but I asked him first. Unfortunately, he is no longer alive to vouch for that.

 

I once took a lot of time making a diagram of the typical hammered dulcimer mallet (or hammer) for a scientific discussion in a dulcimer forum. I made the mistake of not putting any copyright information in the photo. The next thing I know, a professional hammer manufacturer had taken the photo from the forum and posted it on his commercial site without any acknowledgement of all the work I had done. Granted, I hadn't made an effort to protect my work. But again, common courtesy (if he'd have had any) should have caused him to contact me first. Eventually he agreed to change the web site to give me credit, but only after some of the other forum members (also indignant) dragged his real name (not his forum handle) through the dust a bit. I think I asked them to go back and edit their forum posts since the situation was alleviated. But it could have been avoided altogether.

Edited by MountainWoods

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DO NOT create waymarks of distant locations from home without at least visiting the location in person and obtaining your own experiences. It is unethical, counterproductive to the hobby of Waymarking and just plain lazy.

----------------------------------------------

Waymarking.com specifically has a link for others to share uncategorized waymarks. I've used it, and I've posted waymarks so others can do it, and the waymark page clearly states that BOTH people contributed to the waymark.

 

Nowadays I have zero interest in participating in that aspect of Waymarking.

 

But please, don't be so judgmental to those waymarkers who do wish to use this feature on the website. I don't like the feature either, but calling those who do use it unethical and lazy is uncalled for.

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Much of the responses I read above emphasized the impoliteness of using the photographs without asking; to which I agree. Besides rules and regulations, there is also something a lot of folks forget about today: common courtesy.

 

But the other aspect mentioned, just grabbing the wording and reusing it really shows the greedy attitude (there's probably a better word for it, but I can't think of it just now) of the lazy waymarker. I don't know the waymarks in question, and I don't really want to know. But I know that it takes some thought to create the description of a good waymark -- a lot more work even than pushing the shutter button (although I'm not minimizing the photo issue). Copying the description wording without asking really shows a disregard for common courtesy.

 

I have reused one other person's photo for one of my waymarks, but I asked him first. Unfortunately, he is no longer alive to vouch for that.

 

I once took a lot of time making a diagram of the typical hammered dulcimer mallet (or hammer) for a scientific discussion in a dulcimer forum. I made the mistake of not putting any copyright information in the photo. The next thing I know, a professional hammer manufacturer had taken the photo from the forum and posted it on his commercial site without any acknowledgement of all the work I had done. Granted, I hadn't made an effort to protect my work. But again, common courtesy (if he'd have had any) should have caused him to contact me first. Eventually he agreed to change the web site to give me credit, but only after some of the other forum members (also indignant) dragged his real name (not his forum handle) through the dust a bit. I think I asked them to go back and edit their forum posts since the situation was alleviated. But it could have been avoided altogether.

Granted that the internet and web have muddied the waters, but one does NOT have to register something as copyrighted to be protected by copyright laws. If it is your work, then you own the copyright, even without a copyright logo or claim. It is more than common courtesy; it is common law. Your work is yours UNLESS you specifically waive those rights in some way. Commonly, things posted on the web are done so under terms under which the author relinquishes some or all rights. But, that is NOT the case on Groundspeak sites as stated in the relevant portion quoted by BruceS. I'd go after your dulcimer work.

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Sigh. Yes, I was copied on some of this correspondence as well, from an alert reviewer. I was too busy or tired to check it out, and by the time I looked at it, the offending waymark had been archived. So, Lep is right, be patient; we don't all respond as quickly as you might like for various reasons.

 

Also of suspicion in this case is the the coordinates for the two waymarks we exactly the same. I myself could waymark the same site twice and not come up with exactly the same coordinates! That two people at different times could waymark the same object and have the exactly the same coordinates stretches my credulity. This lends evidence that this was an armchair waymark -- that the person never visited the site at all.

 

I'll confess that I don't understand the mentality of someone who would even want to do this! What satisfaction could there possibly be from filling the grid by hacking someone else's waymarks? Not anything I could be proud of.

 

I will be taking another look at some suspicious waymarks.

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Doug, you did it absolutely the right way! Some people have learned their lesson without to much unnecessary hassle.

 

These things have happened before (and were discissed here in the forum), and they will happen again. But they are rare. The worst we could do, is to lose our faith inl our fellow waymarkers and become over suspicious. This would do harm the game as a whole. Most participant do the best, they can. Trust is essential. Potential cheaters will always be dicovered, sooner or later. And remember, it's not only cheating in a game, it's against the law.

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I'm VERY glad to have folks backing me up in my frustrations with 'armchair waymarkers'. I honestly can't believe people feel content stealing other peoples' pictures/text/coordinates to fill a grid. It's a game/hobby, but COME ON! If you can't take the time to visit a potential waymark location, then DON'T CREATE IT. I am now actively pursuing ANYONE who pulls these kind of antics and will do everything I can in my power to call them out and let them know that what they're doing is CHEATING THE GAME. Shame on them.

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I'm VERY glad to have folks backing me up in my frustrations with 'armchair waymarkers'. I honestly can't believe people feel content stealing other peoples' pictures/text/coordinates to fill a grid. It's a game/hobby, but COME ON! If you can't take the time to visit a potential waymark location, then DON'T CREATE IT. I am now actively pursuing ANYONE who pulls these kind of antics and will do everything I can in my power to call them out and let them know that what they're doing is CHEATING THE GAME. Shame on them.

How do you feel about assisted waymarks? I have some photos and coordinates of waymarks that I may not do as good of a job with my write up as another member, but would like to see them listed. But if I log that waymark is that considered only half as lame as logging my own waymark? :anicute: I ask you because you brought the subject of assisted waymarks in another thread, and I really don't see the point in logging my own waymarks. :unsure:

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How do you feel about assisted waymarks? I have some photos and coordinates of waymarks that I may not do as good of a job with my write up as another member, but would like to see them listed. But if I log that waymark is that considered only half as lame as logging my own waymark? :anicute: I ask you because you brought the subject of assisted waymarks in another thread, and I really don't see the point in logging my own waymarks. :unsure:

Some people visit their own waymarks and some don't, it is not considered lame at all.

 

Assisted waymarks do not show up in your statistics, so this is a good reason to log a visit. I normally do not do uncategorized waymarks, there is only one I assisted (this had a reason). But I visited this one when it was approved, of course.

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How do you feel about assisted waymarks? I have some photos and coordinates of waymarks that I may not do as good of a job with my write up as another member, but would like to see them listed. But if I log that waymark is that considered only half as lame as logging my own waymark? :anicute: I ask you because you brought the subject of assisted waymarks in another thread, and I really don't see the point in logging my own waymarks. :unsure:

Some people visit their own waymarks and some don't, it is not considered lame at all.

 

Assisted waymarks do not show up in your statistics, so this is a good reason to log a visit. I normally do not do uncategorized waymarks, there is only one I assisted (this had a reason). But I visited this one when it was approved, of course.

I just would not feel right visiting my own waymark. I do like to keep the number of my visits seperated from how many waymarks I have listed. Assisted waymarks do sound interesting to me, I think I will create a few uncategorized ones and see how they work out. I like thebeav69's idea of working with another waymarker that I know, or at least knows the locality of the waymark. :ph34r:

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Waymarking isn't Geocaching.

Different folks have different reasons for visiting or not visiting their own waymarks.

 

In my case, I like to see how many places I "visited" in real life, not just the hobby sense of the word. Therefore, when I go to a place (go to = visit) to waymark it, that is a also visit. I visited that thing (or place), and also waymarked it. (If you like confusion: I didn't not visit it whilst preparing to waymark it!)

Thus, I consider a visit something that you do to a place or thing that is waymarked, not just a "visit to a waymark" in the hobby sense. I have no problem recording a visit to something that was made a waymark long after I was there to see it, like Niagara Falls and the statue of liberty. I don't care that Waymarking wasn't around when I visited them. I visited them. Then recorded it in the waymark years later when it was available, along with my photos and what my visit was like -- which is what the waymark poster often likes to hear about.

 

But that's just how I feel about it. Others may want to use Visits (in the Waymarking sense) to distinguish things that someone else listed, but that they went to (i.e. visited in both senses).

 

I once read a post where someone said that they didn't visit their own waymarks so that they could keep track of what they listed versus what other folks had listed & they had visited. That confused me, 'cause I thought folks had learned something called "subtraction" back in grade school! If you look at my Waymarks Visited count and subtract my Waymarks Listed count, you have the number of places/things that someone else listed, but which I went to. Simple as that. This works as long as you always visit your own waymarks.

Edited by MountainWoods

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I once read a post where someone said that they didn't visit their own waymarks so that they could keep track of what they listed versus what other folks had listed & they had visited. That confused me, 'cause I thought folks had learned something called "subtraction" back in grade school! If you look at my Waymarks Visited count and subtract my Waymarks Listed count, you have the number of places/things that someone else listed, but which I went to. Simple as that. This works as long as you always visit your own waymarks.

The other perspective:

 

To me, posting a waymark implies the visit, otherwise you couldn’t have even waymarked the place. (excluding uncategorized waymark, if you categorize them).

Why should I go through the additional, and to me unnecessary, effort to post a visit to every waymark I create.

 

Because some waymarkers mostly do visits, some waymarkers are mostly posters and while other waymarkers post and visit their own, it’s meaningless to compare the visit numbers of waymarkers. However, one can kind of tell which of the three types a waymarker is by examining the the two numbers.

 

My visits to waymarks are to places where I didn’t create the waymark. BOOM, no subtraction necessary!

 

And if I should ever want the total number of places I’ve been to, I would add the two number together. Using your words, "Simple as that". :rolleyes:

 

Not much difference, except I do less work. :D

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Waymarking isn't Geocaching.

Different folks have different reasons for visiting or not visiting their own waymarks.

 

In my case, I like to see how many places I "visited" in real life, not just the hobby sense of the word. Therefore, when I go to a place (go to = visit) to waymark it, that is a also visit. I visited that thing (or place), and also waymarked it. (If you like confusion: I didn't not visit it whilst preparing to waymark it!)

Thus, I consider a visit something that you do to a place or thing that is waymarked, not just a "visit to a waymark" in the hobby sense. I have no problem recording a visit to something that was made a waymark long after I was there to see it, like Niagara Falls and the statue of liberty. I don't care that Waymarking wasn't around when I visited them. I visited them. Then recorded it in the waymark years later when it was available, along with my photos and what my visit was like -- which is what the waymark poster often likes to hear about.

 

But that's just how I feel about it. Others may want to use Visits (in the Waymarking sense) to distinguish things that someone else listed, but that they went to (i.e. visited in both senses).

 

I once read a post where someone said that they didn't visit their own waymarks so that they could keep track of what they listed versus what other folks had listed & they had visited. That confused me, 'cause I thought folks had learned something called "subtraction" back in grade school! If you look at my Waymarks Visited count and subtract my Waymarks Listed count, you have the number of places/things that someone else listed, but which I went to. Simple as that. This works as long as you always visit your own waymarks.

 

Too much work for me...

 

I just list 'em or visit 'em - and the two shall never be the same.

 

I like my numbers to be even though. I try to have as many visits as posts. Lately they are running a little lopsided because there aren't a whole lot of waymarks in the area.

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I'm going through Waymarking withdrawals as we wait for the servers to be upgraded....

 

I also differentiate between posting waymarks and posting visits. I don't combine the two for the reason that it's sort of a little competition with myself to see how many visits to locations I log in my travels versus how many waymarks I can create from my travels. So far, my waymark posts outnumber my visits about 4 to 1.

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We really need a new thread for this discussion.

 

My Posted Waymarks and Visited Waymarks would be separate if I hadn't completed other waymarkers' Scavenger Hunts (I could only ignore mine if I myself ran the scavenger hunt).

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Subtraction is too much work? Calculators cost only a couple of bucks these days ...

 

I can barely use a GPS and you want me to use a calculator? unsure.gif

 

Max is correct, we do need to move this to a new thread. (BruceS)

 

There is actually a message thread about visiting your own waymarks in the Getting Started Forum. It was started in April 2013, last comment was October 2013.

Edited by jhuoni

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I do rather like the uncategorized waymarks. Lately, I just don't have the time it takes to write up a proper waymark. But, I pass things that really should be waymarked. The value to the world of a category increases as the category gets closer to a complete list of things in that category. I can upload the coordinates and a few pictures along with a direction to go and poof, it's a waymark!

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