Noob questions about GPS's

[+RTechS]

Hi all,

 

I am considering the Oregon 450, (not a lot of extra cash to spend right now) but I believe I want more features than it offers. I am used to caching with my android, and I'm pleased with its' functions/capabilities, so I would like a unit that closely mimics what I have already become accustomed to.

 

I cannot believe the accuracy of this phone; when I'm at GZ, the phone is "right there" on top of it, very impressed. I run into a little error around buildings in some towns, but not too bad. My only real complaint with the phone is the battery life. (what else, there's no real remedy for that unfortunately)...

 

Questions:

 

Does the the Oregon 450 have...

 

1.Turn by turn voice navigation?

 

2."Nearby caches" feature like in the app. that I'm currently using?

 

3. Ease of loading caches, such as "by zipcode", etc.. I really don't have an idea as to how they are normally loaded. Don't really have the spare time to put into learning a steep learning curve process...(GSAK?)

 

Does the Oregon 450 have these features? Am I overlooking anything important or other nice features to have?

 

Any/all comments, suggestions welcomed/appreciated.

 

Thanks!

[+Gitchee-Gummee]

1] No, it doesn't do "voice" turn-by-turn. I'm not so sure that any handheld GPSr does. Automotive units do.

It does however (depending on the mapping program) function the same... it just doesn't talk to you.

 

2] Yes, it will show nearby caches -- assuming that you have loaded them.

 

3] It loads caches very easily. GSAK is completely unnecessary. But no, it won't load by "zipcode", etc. You load it via a computer hookup and do the searches for caches (by whatever means, "zipcode" is only one means of a search method) with the computer, downloading the search results to the computer, then to the GPSr. As long as you are a computer repair technician, think of a GPSr as a removable storage device. That is after-all, what it is. It ain't much like a phone at all.

 

Your choice is a good unit. You may be disappointed to learn however, that it offers no advantage over your phone unless you are also willing to cough up the Premium Membership fee. Premium Membership is the key that makes a unit such as the Oregon 450 shine, and allows you to use it to its full "paperless" abilities.

 

 

As an aside, switching platforms has a learning curve associated with it. If you don't have "the time" to learn how to properly use it, you may feel somewhat disappointed. It's not a phone and you cannot expect it to work like a phone does.

Regardless of which direction one takes -- switching from phone-to-GPSr or GPSr-to-phone -- you need to re-learn bunches of how-to's.

My suggestion is that if you are happy with the phone, you should stay with that... not having "the time" to learn something different.

Edited February 15, 2014 by Gitchee-Gummee

[alandb]

1] No, it doesn't do "voice" turn-by-turn. I'm not so sure that any handheld GPSr does. Automotive units do.

It does however (depending on the mapping program) function the same... it just doesn't talk to you.

Actually the Montana and Monterra do have a "nuvi mode" and give turn by turn voice directions if you buy the automotive mount (which has a built in speaker) and City Navigator maps. I would love to have a Montana with these add-ons. But the price is prohibitive by the time you pay the premium price for the unit, then add the cost of the mount and the maps. I keep waiting for the Montana prices to go down, but they have actually gone up since the Monterra came out. Edited February 15, 2014 by alandb

[+RTechS]

Gitchee-Gummee & alandb -

 

Thanks so much for that info., much appreciated. Premium Membership - I actually do plan on purchasing that shortly, no issue there. I must say I am a bit disappointed by the "limitations" of the GPS'rs, from what you have told me here.

 

If a phone/app isn't limited by turn by turn nav., nearby caches by zip & so forth, I don't understand why a GPS shouldn't include these features. I clearly need to do a bit more research before making a purchase.

 

Since my caching experience is limited, I don't really know yet how well my phone will perform under heavy tree cover, etc., so that would probably be an area where a GPS unit would shine.

 

As far as a different platform to learn, I can make "the time" to learn GSAK, etc., if there are good tutorials available...what I meant was that I don't have the time to invest in doing a lot of digging through forums, trying this & that to make something work.

 

Not lazy...just extremely busy!

[+Chief301]

I used GSAK for awhile, but I don't anymore (have a Garmin Oregon 550). Just run a PQ, download the resulting GPX file to a folder on my computer, and drag it to the Oregon. Done. No third party software required.

 

Understand that a handheld GPS is, and was originally, designed for HIKING and other outdoor pursuits, not driving directions. As such there has never been a need for it to speak driving directions to you. They make a different GPS for that.

 

A handheld GPSr is designed for various outdoor pursuits....hiking, camping, hunting, land management, Geocaching. It's a general purpose device. The app on your phone is designed for Geocaching and only Geocaching. So of course it's loaded with features to enhance the Geocaching experience.

 

Using a GPS is not as lead-you-by-the-hand easy as a Geocaching phone app....at least not at first. The Oregon is a very customizable unit though....loads of features and settings. Once you get all the settings and profiles set up like you want and learn how to quickly create and download Pocket Queries, it is actually a pretty slick tool.

[+Chief301]

I used GSAK for awhile, but I don't anymore (have a Garmin Oregon 550). Just run a PQ, download the resulting GPX file to a folder on my computer, and drag it to the Oregon. Done. No third party software required.

 

Understand that a handheld GPS is, and was originally, designed for HIKING and other outdoor pursuits, not driving directions. As such there has never been a need for it to speak driving directions to you. They make a different GPS for that.

 

A handheld GPSr is designed for various outdoor pursuits....hiking, camping, hunting, land management, Geocaching. It's a general purpose device. The app on your phone is designed for Geocaching and only Geocaching. So of course it's loaded with features to enhance the Geocaching experience.

 

Using a GPS is not as lead-you-by-the-hand easy as a Geocaching phone app....at least not at first. The Oregon is a very customizable unit though....loads of features and settings. Once you get all the settings and profiles set up like you want and learn how to quickly create and download Pocket Queries, it is actually a pretty slick tool.

[+Gitchee-Gummee]

If a phone/app isn't limited by turn by turn nav., nearby caches by zip & so forth, I don't understand why a GPS shouldn't include these features. I clearly need to do a bit more research before making a purchase.

A misinterpretation here ↑↑↑↑....

 

Most current GPSr units DO turn-by-turn... what they don't do is speak it to you (with the above noted pricey add-on exception).

Nothing in those posts said that it wouldn't do turn-by-turn, it just doesn't verbalize it.

 

As far as the searches go... your phone is accessing the web to do those searches. A GPSr has no wireless access to the web (with one exception, the Garmin Monterra). You need to load that data (zip search if that is what you wanna call it) by direct wired hookup to a computer and the GPSr unit. Simply put, a GPSr isn't a phone and you shouldn't expect it to act like one.

 

You also should understand that it is the mapping program that actually does the turn-by-turn directions, not the device, regardless if whether it is a phone or a dedicated GPSr unit. There again, the phone doesn't have a map... it is simply pulling it from the web, wirelessly (or you can save it on-board for times that you have no connection).

 

As far as a different platform to learn, I can make "the time" to learn GSAK, etc., if there are good tutorials available...what I meant was that I don't have the time to invest in doing a lot of digging through forums, trying this & that to make something work.

Repeating previous.... GSAK is not necessary to load data to a GPSr. It does a lot of stuff and is super for managing data. Go ahead and use it if you want... it really is VERY time consuming to learn all it can and will do. But necessary, to get into GSAK, no... not in the least for basic geocaching or loading a GPSr.

[+Bear and Ragged]

Gitchee-Gummee & alandb -

 

Thanks so much for that info., much appreciated. Premium Membership - I actually do plan on purchasing that shortly, no issue there.

 

> snipped <

 

 

If it's a new device, consider registering it here >> http://www.geocaching.com/garmin/freetrial.aspx and get 30 days free trial Premium Membership.

[+RTechS]

I'm a bit fuzzy on how the PQ's actually work. Am I to understand that if one downloads the PQ's, you can then search/sort them by "nearest first", and so forth? Are they downloadable by zipcode/city/region?

[+Chief301]

I'm a bit fuzzy on how the PQ's actually work. Am I to understand that if one downloads the PQ's, you can then search/sort them by "nearest first", and so forth? Are they downloadable by zipcode/city/region?

 

The results of the PQ are delivered to you in one big file called a GPX file. You can't really sort or organize them unless you use a program like GSAK. As Gitchee and I both pointed out, you don't need GSAK for the basic purpose of loading those caches to the device....basically just plug it in and drag them over like it was any external drive.

 

Now, once you get the GPX file dragged over to the GPS, when you access Geocaches it will, by default, list them in order of proximity to your current location i.e., wherever you're standing at the time the list wil start with the closest first.

 

Or, if you're looking for a cache that's NOT the closest one to your current location, you can look it up by name if you know it, or just pull up the map and scroll around and look (the Geocaches will have a different icon on the map than other waypoints). Just select the one you want to go to.

 

The GPS will also allow you to filter caches by a variety of criteria....size, difficulty and/or terrain level, etc. So if I have all the caches in a given area loaded to my device, but I want to exclude Micros today, I can do that.

 

Here's a bit of advice....see if there are any events scheduled in your area soon. Attend one and go meet the local caching crowd. Most of them wil have their GPSr's with them....most will be happy to let you try them out and see how they function with actual Geocaches loaded, rather than trying out a blank GPS at an outdoor store.

[+coachstahly]

You can somewhat "limit/sort" what you want to call up on your PQ when you initially set it up. You can limit by types, size, trackbles, distance, difficulty, terrain, attributes, and some other features as well. Once you select the options, the PQ will run and spit out the GPX file. From there you can either load it into the unit (as is) or load it into GSAK, where you can fine tune the PQ and then load it into your unit.

[+Gitchee-Gummee]

Being able to run and explore Pocket Queries requires Premium Membership, first.

You cannot access Pocket Queries, hence GPX files, without being PM.

 

Up to the point of being PM, you can ask all you want, but you'll never be able to see/explore the possibilities.

 

This link explains PM benefits: http://support.Groundspeak.com/index.php?pg=kb.page&id=175

 

In short, you set up and run the PQ from a link on your Profile Page. The parameters of the search are all performed online -- not on the GPSr unit;

You download the PQ results (files) to the computer;

You then download those files from your computer to the GPSr unit;

Unplug the GPSr from the computer and go geocaching.

 

A downloaded PQ may contain any number of geocaches from 1 to 1,000 -- you select the number when you run the PQ. Other search parameters include geographical area, cache size, cache type... lots more. You can run five PQ's per day, resulting in up to 5,000 geocaches.

[+BAMBOOZLE]

Everyone has given you great information. I have an iPhone 5 and tons of GPS units ( I'm kind of a GPS junkie). I much prefer caching with a good GPS than using my iPhone but like having the iPhone in the truck for the rare times I want up to the minute info. or I'm working on an Earthcache or need photos related to a cache. If you really want to get into this hobby and enjoy it this is my recommendation... ( remember, I've been wrestling with the nuisances of the hobby for over 10 years and have used EasyGPS,Spinner, Plucker, Cachemate, Palm M500, Sony CliePJ25,GSAK,and a ton of GPS units and a few Smartphones )

 

1. Get the Premium Membership....PQ's and other great features.

2. Get a GPS...your idea of the 450 is good.....I have one but prefer the 62S ( brighter screen, quad ant., and better for one hand use when I drive.

3. Get a cheap Nuvi off Ebay ( I use the 780, about $40 ) you can load your caches to the 780 and get directions to the cache you seek while watching a nice big screen....when you're about .1mile-450'from the cache your handheld will tell you where to park...walk to the cache using your handheld, usually in compass mode.

4. Use GSAK ....its not necessary to learn everything about it ( I'll do that when I retire ) but its great for grouping and organizing you pq's and it can load my Nuvi, newer paperless GPS units and older units I use with just a click.

 

As has been said many times on this forum.....you really can't beat driving to a cache with a Nuvi and walking to the cache with a good GPS.

Edited February 15, 2014 by BAMBOOZLE

[+RTechS]

Get a cheap Nuvi off Ebay ( I use the 780, about $40 ) you can load your caches to the 780 and get directions to the cache you seek while watching a nice big screen

How do you actually load the caches on the Nuvi?

 

Also, on an Oregon 450 (or similar); after download the PQ's, are you able to actually view the description of the cache, logs, etc. while in the field?

Edited March 30, 2014 by RTechS

[alandb]

How do you actually load the caches on the Nuvi?

I use the GSAK program (with a published macro) to generate a .GPX file that is loaded into the nuvi with Garmin's POI Loader program. This gives you full descriptions, hint, difficulty/terrain, etc. on the nuvi as Custom POI's.

 

Also, on an Oregon 450 (or similar; after download the PQ's, are you able to actually view the description of the cache, logs, etc. while in the field?

yes, all relevant information is available on the Oregon when you load a PQ.

[+RTechS]

How do you actually load the caches on the Nuvi?

I use the GSAK program (with a published macro) to generate a .GPX file that is loaded into the nuvi with Garmin's POI Loader program. This gives you full descriptions, hint, difficulty/terrain, etc. on the nuvi as Custom POI's.

 

Also, on an Oregon 450 (or similar; after download the PQ's, are you able to actually view the description of the cache, logs, etc. while in the field?

yes, all relevant information is available on the Oregon when you load a PQ.

 

Thanks for that info. I was under the impression that the cache details were not viewable on a GPS - I was certain I heard that mentioned on some geocaching podcast.

[alandb]

They are if you are a Premium member, use Pocket Queries and load the geocaches on the unit with the proper procedures.

 

[+splashy]

Coming from a good working app to a outdoor gps is like going back in time, even if the Montana and also the Oregon are very good.

 

I advise you, try to lend or rent a gps before buying, or have a dealer who accepts returns.

 

The Oregon 450 is a very good model almost without errors.

You might consider a batterypack with usb cable to recharge your phone while away from the car / home.

 

The Oregon and Montana 'beep', where the Montana also has a plug for an earphone to get spoken instructions.

Edited March 30, 2014 by splashy

[+RTechS]

Coming from a good working app to a outdoor gps is like going back in time, even if the Montana and also the Oregon are very good.

 

I know - I get that feeling from reading the various threads & listening to podcasts. My issue is, I figure I will probably have trouble with the smartphone when I start woods caching this summer...And for some reason, the turn by turn is wonky at times. It will "re-route" and direct me around the block, sometimes leading on a wild goose chase before actually getting to the destination.

 

If it weren't for those two issues I would stick with the smartphone solely.

[+Gitchee-Gummee]

Thanks for that info. I was under the impression that the cache details were not viewable on a GPS - I was certain I heard that mentioned on some geocaching podcast.

Just about the entire cache page (including the last five logs), as you see it online is displayed on the GPSr, when loaded in GPX file format.

GPX format is available to Premium Members only however. Regular Membership is relegated to LOC files which do not include all of that data.

 

Too, it depends a bit on the GPSr unit. All newer generation units are "paperless" -- that is the other piece of the puzzle. It does require a paperless-type unit to show that display.

 

 

Podcasts are like (news)media, take what you hear from them, but keep your salt shaker handy as things can be easier to swallow with a grain of salt.

Edited March 31, 2014 by Gitchee-Gummee

[+RTechS]

Gitchee-Gummee, Thanks so much for that information. I definitely plan on purchasing a paperless unit, a touch screen model. Just trying to make sure I ask enough questions before I purchase something I won't be happy with. And yes, a Prem. membership is in my future. You mentioned something interesting -

 

Just about the entire cache page (including the last five logs), as you see it online is displayed on the GPSr, when loaded in GPX file format.

 

Am I to understand that ONLY the last five log entries are viewable? I would have DNF'd a recent cache if it were not for a spoiler included in a log entry that was at least ten or more entries deep into the page.

 

As you can see, "I want my cake and eat it too", lol.

Edited March 31, 2014 by RTechS

[+RTechS]

After doing quite a bit of reading/research (overload) I guess I will go with the Oregon 450. Would love to step up to one of the 4" screen models, as I really despise matchbook-size screens, but I can't justify spending close to $400.00 (or more) on it.

 

So, I guess until they discontinue one of those larger models & they come down in price, the 450 will have to fulfill my needs. Is there any other "support equipment" that I should purchase that would make the 450 more enjoyable? Not sure if I need topo maps, as much of my caching will probably not be deep in the woods and I don't go hiking on unknown trails all that much.

[+BAMBOOZLE]

After doing quite a bit of reading/research (overload) I guess I will go with the Oregon 450. Would love to step up to one of the 4" screen models, as I really despise matchbook-size screens, but I can't justify spending close to $400.00 (or more) on it.

 

So, I guess until they discontinue one of those larger models & they come down in price, the 450 will have to fulfill my needs. Is there any other "support equipment" that I should purchase that would make the 450 more enjoyable? Not sure if I need topo maps, as much of my caching will probably not be deep in the woods and I don't go hiking on unknown trails all that much.

 

The 450 is a fine unit and you will enjoy it.

You are going to want detail street maps for your unit. I buy the Garmin City Navigator on the micro SD card...just snap it in and you're good to go.

[+fishgeek]

After doing quite a bit of reading/research (overload) I guess I will go with the Oregon 450. Would love to step up to one of the 4" screen models, as I really despise matchbook-size screens, but I can't justify spending close to $400.00 (or more) on it.

 

So, I guess until they discontinue one of those larger models & they come down in price, the 450 will have to fulfill my needs. Is there any other "support equipment" that I should purchase that would make the 450 more enjoyable? Not sure if I need topo maps, as much of my caching will probably not be deep in the woods and I don't go hiking on unknown trails all that much.

 

The 450 is a fine unit and you will enjoy it.

You are going to want detail street maps for your unit. I buy the Garmin City Navigator on the micro SD card...just snap it in and you're good to go.

 

I got a 450 after working my way up from other less capable GPSs. To me, it is a great unit, but I have never used a smart phone.

 

There are free maps available for the 450. I have read that they sometimes have problems with routing, but work fine otherwise. Using GSAK, you can load more than 5 logs.

[+cliptwings]

To get back to the author's original question, it sounds like the only issue they have is battery life of the phone. A much cheaper alternative to a stand-alone GPSr would be an external battery pack for the phone. I use one, it's cheap, and it works great. Then there would be NO learning curve either. Just a thought while you're pondering on the best GPSr to buy.

[+RTechS]

To get back to the author's original question, it sounds like the only issue they have is battery life of the phone. A much cheaper alternative to a stand-alone GPSr would be an external battery pack for the phone. I use one, it's cheap, and it works great. Then there would be NO learning curve either. Just a thought while you're pondering on the best GPSr to buy.

 

Yes, An additional batt. pack would solve that problem. I'm just a bit concerned how the phone will perform under tree cover...and sometimes the turn by turn directs me in circles for some reason...but other than that, I am satisfied with it.

 

I did come across the Magellan Explorist 710 which seems to have many of the features I am wanting, but the QC seems to be hit or miss with those units. I read a bunch of great reviews, then a lot of bad ones dealing with hardware/other issues.