GPS used to convict suspect in a murder investigation.

[+Zartimus]

I saw this on Forensic Files on CourtTV last night.

 

http://www.courttv.com/onair/shows/forensicfiles/episodes/bagging_a_killer.html

 

In a missing persons case a father was the prime suspect. After getting court orders to search his vehicles Police hide two small special purpose GPS transmitters on both of his trucks. They do not have enough evidence for an arrest, but police purposly confront the suspect with their suspicions that he committed murder and buried the body. The investigators mention specifically that they have dogs that can detect cadavers in shallow graves. A few days later, one of the suspect's vehicles was detected travelling 60 miles away to a wooded area(blasting co-ordionates to police the whole way), staying stationairy for 44 minutes, and going home afterwards. Police visited the site and discovered a freshly dug but empty grave. Two days later the suspect's vehicle drove 15 miles into another wooded area, stayed for 20 minutes, and proceeded another 45 miles to the 1st area.

 

Upon visting the 2nd site it was clear that a body had been buried there but had since been removed. They took footprints and tire castings which matched the suspect's.

 

Police travelled again to the 1st site and there, discovered the re-buried body of the missing person.

 

The guy was convicted with the phisical evidence at the sites but there was no way they would have gotten him had it not been for the use of GPS.

[+seneca]

What a fantastic use of GPS! But just wait to you hear all of the negative comments declaring "Big Brother" and "invasion of privacy". I am never bothered when democracies use clever, invasive tactics against ruthless criminals in order to protect law abiding citizens (I don't even care if they inadvertantly invade my privacy when doing so). The problem with the Orwellian "Big Brother" dictatorship wasn't the tactics, but the goals and ideology of that fictional government.

I am hopeful that police will use GPS as an investigative tool much more.

[+infosponge]

How would you feel if all cars were required to have a GPS transponder and whenever you exceeded the posted speed limit a computer somewhere mailed you a ticket?

 

quote:

---

Originally posted by seneca:

I am never bothered when democracies use clever, invasive tactics against ruthless criminals in order to protect law abiding citizens.

I am hopeful that police will use GPS as an investigative tool much more.

---

[+seneca]

Originally posted by infosponge:

How would you feel if all cars were required to have a GPS transponder and whenever you exceeded the posted speed limit a computer somewhere mailed you a ticket?

 

Great idea. I am a private pilot, and part of my privelege of having a pilot's license is that, in the interests of safety, my movements through controlled airspace is strictly monitored. If I break the rules, causing a safety concern, I will be notified, and possibly charged, or have my license suspended. Why should it be any different when driving on the ground?

[+Salvelinus]

Originally posted by infosponge:

How would you feel if all cars were required to have a GPS transponder and whenever you exceeded the posted speed limit a computer somewhere mailed you a ticket?

 

Do you consider speeders ruthless criminals? I believe that was the distinction.

 

"Give a man a fish and he eats for a day...

Teach a man to fish and he eats for a lifetime"

[+Zartimus]

Originally posted by infosponge:

How would you feel if all cars were required to have a GPS transponder and whenever you exceeded the posted speed limit a computer somewhere mailed you a ticket?

---------------------

 

I probably would not like that, then again, this was a murder investigation involving the guy's daughter. He deserved what he got. What you describe sounds like photo-radar which they tried where I am but they phased it out after a number of complaints. You never know who is driving the car.

 

Pretty soon they will be able to pop GPS transponder chips in people and pets. Time's are a changing.

 

"It's 10:00PM Do you know where YOUR kids are?" (fires up the GPS tracker)

 

"Yep".

[DaBadger]

quote:

---

Originally posted by infosponge:

How would you feel if all cars were required to have a GPS transponder and whenever you exceeded the posted speed limit a computer somewhere mailed you a ticket?

 

---

 

There's a rental car company that's already done something like this. They fined customers who sped while driving one of their cars. Even though it was in the agreement they signed, there's been legal challenges to it (invasion of privacy and whatnot).

[+infosponge]

No, speeders aren't ruthless criminals, but what I was getting at is that you have to be careful of what powers you give the government. Sooner or later they'll keep expanding it out until it includes *you* if you let them. Look at what's happened since 9/11 with that being the excuse for a whole host of new government powers and constitutional shortcuts...few if any which will actually make us safer than we are now.

 

The example given was a good use of the technology, and I assume was used under the proper auspices of a search warrant. (I hope so, anyway).

 

quote:

---

Originally posted by smoochnme:

 

Do you consider speeders ruthless criminals? I believe that was the distinction.

 

---

[+seneca]

quote:

---

Originally posted by infosponge:

...but what I was getting at is that you have to be careful of what powers you give the government.

---

 

I agree with you on that point. We must always be vigilant to ensure that government does not abuse the powers we give them, so that our democracy does not get corrupted into something else. That is one of our main responsibilies a citizen in a democracy has. However, a strong democracy can comfortably give its government the powers necessary to protect its citizenry from those who have no respect for the rights or safety of others.

[+Glenn]

quote:

---

Originally posted by infosponge:

How would you feel if all cars were required to have a GPS transponder and whenever you exceeded the posted speed limit a computer somewhere mailed you a ticket?

 

quote:

---

Originally posted by seneca:

I am never bothered when democracies use clever, invasive tactics against ruthless criminals in order to protect law abiding citizens.

I am hopeful that police will use GPS as an investigative tool much more.

---

---

 

Thats weird Officer. No, I dont know how I keep getting hairline fractures in the circuit board of my GPS transciver?

 

Some the busses in Italy are equiped with a device that recoders a number of things (speed being one of them) and burns that data to a CDR. At the end of the hire the driver has to turn it in.

 

- Lone Rangers

[+park2]

GPS was used in another case that spanned from Canada to the UK. A Canadian 'financier' absconded with a bunch of clients cash and they couldn't find him. It turns out he had killed a guy from the UK and dumped his body into the ocean tied to an anchor and was posing as him back in the UK. A fisherman found the body a while later, police figured out when he was killed from the date on the ROLEX left on the body and tied the killer to the body based on the track log of the GPS in his sailboat. The body was identified by the serial number on the Rolex. It happened about 4-5 years ago.

[+Renegade Knight]

quote:

---

Originally posted by seneca:

Originally posted by infosponge:

How would you feel if all cars were required to have a GPS transponder and whenever you exceeded the posted speed limit a computer somewhere mailed you a ticket?

 

Great idea. I am a private pilot, and part of my privelege of having a pilot's license is that, in the interests of safety, my movements through controlled airspace is strictly monitored. If I break the rules, causing a safety concern, I will be notified, and possibly charged, or have my license suspended. Why should it be any different when driving on the ground?

---

 

It's a bad idea. Why? Because they are tracking the speed of the car. Not the driver. If the car is stolen, or loaned I don't want the ticket thank you very much. If I'm driving at the time, it's my own dadgum fault. And No I don't want a ticked if I do 75.01 for one second. On the other hand the Police did a brilliant maneover in solving their case.

[+Glenn]

quote:

---

Originally posted by Renegade Knight:

quote:

---

Originally posted by seneca:

Originally posted by infosponge:

How would you feel if all cars were required to have a GPS transponder and whenever you exceeded the posted speed limit a computer somewhere mailed you a ticket?

 

Great idea. I am a private pilot, and part of my privelege of having a pilot's license is that, in the interests of safety, my movements through controlled airspace is strictly monitored. If I break the rules, causing a safety concern, I will be notified, and possibly charged, or have my license suspended. Why should it be any different when driving on the ground?

---

 

It's a bad idea. Why? Because they are tracking the speed of the car. Not the driver. If the car is stolen, or loaned I don't want the ticket thank you very much. If I'm driving at the time, it's my own dadgum fault. And No I don't want a ticked if I do 75.01 for one second. On the other hand the Police did a brilliant maneover in solving their case.

---

 

So when YOU get a parking ticket when your friend who you loaned your car to parks illegaly do you think that you shouldn't have to pay it?

 

Anyhoo, here in Sicily the speed traps are a radar gun and camera contraption set on a tripod and left on the side of the road. When a car speed past it a picture of the license plate is taken and the owner gets sent a ticket.

 

The thinking is you are as the owner responsible for the vehicle. If you loan your car to someone you are still resonsible for the car. If you want your money back you have to get it from the person you load your car to. If you know the person you loan your car to speed then you should load your car to them. So knowing what you know, its your own fault for loaning the car to them. If you didn't know, you know now and you should load your car to them again. Also if your car is stolen hopefully you have noticed it missing and reported it stolen.

 

- Lone Rangers

[+niskibum]

Originally posted by park2:

"police figured out when he was killed from the date on the ROLEX left on the body and tied the killer to the body based on the track log of the GPS in his sailboat. The body was identified by the serial number on the Rolex."

 

Note to self #1, only kill guys that wear cheap timex watches.

Note to self #2, sell cheap timex watch-buy rolex.

 

It takes a licking and keeps on ticking.

[+gnbrotz]

Note to self #3, When you're done with the GPS for the day, clear the !@#$ tracklog!

 

Greg

N 39° 54.705'

W 77° 33.137'

[+inceptor]

quote:

---

Originally posted by seneca:

What a fantastic use of GPS! But just wait to you hear all of the negative comments declaring "Big Brother" and "invasion of privacy". I am never bothered when democracies use clever, invasive tactics against ruthless criminals in order to protect law abiding citizens (I don't even care if they inadvertantly invade my privacy when doing so).

---

 

Benjamin Franklin once said "Those who give up freedom for security deserve neither." I agree with that.

 

inceptor

the only difference between men and boys is the price of their toys

[+inceptor]

quote:

---

Originally posted by seneca:

What a fantastic use of GPS! But just wait to you hear all of the negative comments declaring "Big Brother" and "invasion of privacy". I am never bothered when democracies use clever, invasive tactics against ruthless criminals in order to protect law abiding citizens (I don't even care if they inadvertantly invade my privacy when doing so).

---

 

Benjamin Franklin once said "Those who give up freedom for security deserve neither." I agree with that.

 

inceptor

the only difference between men and boys is the price of their toys

[+Zartimus]

quote:

---

Originally posted by inceptor:

Benjamin Franklin once said "Those who give up freedom for security deserve neither." I agree with that.

---

 

Didn't he also say "Fart Proudly"? Gotta agree with that too.

 

http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/ASIN/089804801X/qid=1018975729/sr=2-3/ref=sr_2_3/102-2539501-8251307

[+Zartimus]

quote:

---

Originally posted by inceptor:

Benjamin Franklin once said "Those who give up freedom for security deserve neither." I agree with that.

---

 

Didn't he also say "Fart Proudly"? Gotta agree with that too.

 

http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/ASIN/089804801X/qid=1018975729/sr=2-3/ref=sr_2_3/102-2539501-8251307

[+Firefishe]

quote:

---

Originally posted by seneca:

Originally posted by infosponge:

How would you feel if all cars were required to have a GPS transponder and whenever you exceeded the posted speed limit a computer somewhere mailed you a ticket?

 

Great idea. I am a private pilot, and part of my privelege of having a pilot's license is that, in the interests of safety, my movements through controlled airspace is strictly monitored. If I break the rules, causing a safety concern, I will be notified, and possibly charged, or have my license suspended. Why should it be any different when driving on the ground?

---

 

Federal Airspace is one thing, where you might have a collision with other planes, but a Federal Driver's License? I mean, what with the extremist politicians in gov't these days, I wouldn't want the type of control where--if I went 1 mph over the posted limit (and set as such in an electronic memory bank)--I were mailed tickets all along the way.

 

Ground vehicles have posted limits because of their closer proximity to other vehicles. Airplanes, helicopters, anti-gravity flying saucers , all have radar transponders because aircraft move faster than other types of ground transport, and also have more lattitude (and longitude ) of freedom-of-movement than ground vehicles. I can see why the federal gov't would want authority over the airspace, from this perspective.

 

Ground vehicles, however ground vehicles have more necessity of local traffic control, which is best decided by local governments. This is a relatively free society (the good ol' U.S. of A!). Let's not suggest openly to politicians that some of us--and it's only some, not the majority that make the decisions--want *more* overt and outright regulation of movement.

 

I can tell you one thing. If this happens, the ability to psychically telport one's own physical body at-will (try researching this one!) to places on the planet, may need to become a forced reality, simply to keep freedom Truly Free, and over-regulation in check. There are only a few edicts that I live by. They are as follows:

 

1. If it does not harm anyone, including yourself, then do it.

 

2. If what you are doing does not trod upon the free will of others, do it.

 

3. If it seems better to not do it at any given moment, then don't.

 

4. What we call Common Sense applies to all things. This means to utilize Intelligence, Consideration for Others, and Love-in-action; all the time, not just part-time.

 

5. Realize the Love is all there is, Love is all you need, and Love is all people are made of, Period! (In this world or the next, what-have-you

 

Bottom Line: Stop doing things that would restrict your Own True Self from experiencing life more than it already is.

[+Firefishe]

quote:

---

Originally posted by seneca:

Originally posted by infosponge:

How would you feel if all cars were required to have a GPS transponder and whenever you exceeded the posted speed limit a computer somewhere mailed you a ticket?

 

Great idea. I am a private pilot, and part of my privelege of having a pilot's license is that, in the interests of safety, my movements through controlled airspace is strictly monitored. If I break the rules, causing a safety concern, I will be notified, and possibly charged, or have my license suspended. Why should it be any different when driving on the ground?

---

 

Federal Airspace is one thing, where you might have a collision with other planes, but a Federal Driver's License? I mean, what with the extremist politicians in gov't these days, I wouldn't want the type of control where--if I went 1 mph over the posted limit (and set as such in an electronic memory bank)--I were mailed tickets all along the way.

 

Ground vehicles have posted limits because of their closer proximity to other vehicles. Airplanes, helicopters, anti-gravity flying saucers , all have radar transponders because aircraft move faster than other types of ground transport, and also have more lattitude (and longitude ) of freedom-of-movement than ground vehicles. I can see why the federal gov't would want authority over the airspace, from this perspective.

 

Ground vehicles, however ground vehicles have more necessity of local traffic control, which is best decided by local governments. This is a relatively free society (the good ol' U.S. of A!). Let's not suggest openly to politicians that some of us--and it's only some, not the majority that make the decisions--want *more* overt and outright regulation of movement.

 

I can tell you one thing. If this happens, the ability to psychically telport one's own physical body at-will (try researching this one!) to places on the planet, may need to become a forced reality, simply to keep freedom Truly Free, and over-regulation in check. There are only a few edicts that I live by. They are as follows:

 

1. If it does not harm anyone, including yourself, then do it.

 

2. If what you are doing does not trod upon the free will of others, do it.

 

3. If it seems better to not do it at any given moment, then don't.

 

4. What we call Common Sense applies to all things. This means to utilize Intelligence, Consideration for Others, and Love-in-action; all the time, not just part-time.

 

5. Realize the Love is all there is, Love is all you need, and Love is all people are made of, Period! (In this world or the next, what-have-you

 

Bottom Line: Stop doing things that would restrict your Own True Self from experiencing life more than it already is.

[Rushfan]

Originally posted by Zartimus:

I saw this on Forensic Files on CourtTV last night.

 

http://www.courttv.com/onair/shows/forensicfiles/episodes/bagging_a_killer.html

 

"Police hide two small special purpose GPS transmitters on both of his trucks. "

 

GPS transmitters weight thousands of pounds and are intended to orbit the earth. I expect if the police hid anything in a suspect's vehicle, it was a small "bug" such as a CW transmitter or a beacon used to track the vehicle.

 

Do a bit of research on the principles behind GPS and you'll see how ridiculous the quoted statement is.

[+ApK]

quote:

---

link to GPS use not credible

. . .

Do a bit of research on the principles behind GPS and you'll see how ridiculous the quoted statement is.

---

 

[FLAME]

Try doing a little research yourself. Start with a web search on "GPS VEHICLE LOCATOR"

The contraption described is usually a gpsr tied to a cellular phone-type tranciever. Since it can "TRANSMIT" information from the "GPS", it is accurately, if imprecisely, described as a "GPS TRANSMITTER." The statement is only ridiculous if you refuse to apply any intellegence to your interpretation, and the only thing not credible is your opinion.

[/FLAME]

I'm in a bad mood today.

 

ApK

 

[This message was edited by ApK on July 03, 2002 at 07:34 AM.]

[+ApK]

quote:

---

link to GPS use not credible

. . .

Do a bit of research on the principles behind GPS and you'll see how ridiculous the quoted statement is.

---

 

[FLAME]

Try doing a little research yourself. Start with a web search on "GPS VEHICLE LOCATOR"

The contraption described is usually a gpsr tied to a cellular phone-type tranciever. Since it can "TRANSMIT" information from the "GPS", it is accurately, if imprecisely, described as a "GPS TRANSMITTER." The statement is only ridiculous if you refuse to apply any intellegence to your interpretation, and the only thing not credible is your opinion.

[/FLAME]

I'm in a bad mood today.

 

ApK

 

[This message was edited by ApK on July 03, 2002 at 07:34 AM.]

[Rushfan]

quote:

---

Originally posted by ApK:

quote:

---

_link to GPS use not credible_

. . .

Do a bit of research on the principles behind GPS and you'll see how ridiculous the quoted statement is.

---

 

[FLAME]

Try doing a little research yourself. Start with a web search on "GPS VEHICLE LOCATOR"

The contraption described is usually a gpsr tied to a cellular phone-type tranciever. Since it can "TRANSMIT" information from the "GPS", it is accurately, if imprecisely, described as a "GPS TRANSMITTER." The statement is only ridiculous if you refuse to apply any intellegence to your interpretation, and the only thing not credible is your opinion.

[/FLAME]

I'm in a bad mood today.

 

ApK

 

[This message was edited by ApK on July 03, 2002 at 07:34 AM.]

---

 

OK, I took your advice. I found a company in Williamsville NY who will swap my $2500 for a unit that mounts magnetically under a car, and transmits the data collected by a GPS receiver through a 'cell-phone' type data link. It can be tracked real-time.

 

http://www.vehicle-locator.com/

 

I'd describe that as a "GPS coordinate translator" -- language that I think is more Accurate than Imprecise, both labels which you claim apply to the phrase "GPS transmitter."

 

I hope I helped put you in a better mood, now that you've met someone willing to say "Sorry, I was hasty to jump on your terminology."

 

If you are still in a bad mood after my apology, try finding another geocache. For me, its a thrill that always makes me happier :

[Rushfan]

quote:

---

Originally posted by ApK:

quote:

---

_link to GPS use not credible_

. . .

Do a bit of research on the principles behind GPS and you'll see how ridiculous the quoted statement is.

---

 

[FLAME]

Try doing a little research yourself. Start with a web search on "GPS VEHICLE LOCATOR"

The contraption described is usually a gpsr tied to a cellular phone-type tranciever. Since it can "TRANSMIT" information from the "GPS", it is accurately, if imprecisely, described as a "GPS TRANSMITTER." The statement is only ridiculous if you refuse to apply any intellegence to your interpretation, and the only thing not credible is your opinion.

[/FLAME]

I'm in a bad mood today.

 

ApK

 

[This message was edited by ApK on July 03, 2002 at 07:34 AM.]

---

 

OK, I took your advice. I found a company in Williamsville NY who will swap my $2500 for a unit that mounts magnetically under a car, and transmits the data collected by a GPS receiver through a 'cell-phone' type data link. It can be tracked real-time.

 

http://www.vehicle-locator.com/

 

I'd describe that as a "GPS coordinate translator" -- language that I think is more Accurate than Imprecise, both labels which you claim apply to the phrase "GPS transmitter."

 

I hope I helped put you in a better mood, now that you've met someone willing to say "Sorry, I was hasty to jump on your terminology."

 

If you are still in a bad mood after my apology, try finding another geocache. For me, its a thrill that always makes me happier :

[+ApK]

quote:

---

Originally posted by Rushfan:

 

I hope I helped put you in a better mood, now that you've met someone willing to say "Sorry, I was hasty to jump on your terminology."

 

If you are still in a bad mood after my apology, try finding another geocache. For me, its a thrill that always makes me happier :

---

 

Yup, Much better mood toay, and geocaching scheduled for tomorrow!

And it wasn't even my terminology...I just jumped in uninvited. If _I_ were refering the device described, I'd call it "a vehicle locator that uses GPS and CDPD technology." It's more accurate and more precise and it's a better deal when you're paid by the word! If we wanted to be less verbose, we could agree to call it "Bob," since Microsoft doesn't need the name anymore.

 

Thanks,

ApK

[+ApK]

quote:

---

Originally posted by Rushfan:

 

I hope I helped put you in a better mood, now that you've met someone willing to say "Sorry, I was hasty to jump on your terminology."

 

If you are still in a bad mood after my apology, try finding another geocache. For me, its a thrill that always makes me happier :

---

 

Yup, Much better mood toay, and geocaching scheduled for tomorrow!

And it wasn't even my terminology...I just jumped in uninvited. If _I_ were refering the device described, I'd call it "a vehicle locator that uses GPS and CDPD technology." It's more accurate and more precise and it's a better deal when you're paid by the word! If we wanted to be less verbose, we could agree to call it "Bob," since Microsoft doesn't need the name anymore.

 

Thanks,

ApK

[+ApK]

quote:

---

Originally posted by ApK:

 

If we wanted to be less verbose, we could agree to call it "Bob," since Microsoft doesn't need the name anymore.

 

Thanks,

ApK

---

 

...Or how about a GPS retransmitter?

[+ApK]

quote:

---

Originally posted by ApK:

 

If we wanted to be less verbose, we could agree to call it "Bob," since Microsoft doesn't need the name anymore.

 

Thanks,

ApK

---

 

...Or how about a GPS retransmitter?

[+ionekoa]

quote:

---

Originally posted by seneca: The problem with the Orwellian "Big Brother" dictatorship wasn't the tactics, but the goals and ideology of that fictional government.

I am hopeful that police will use GPS as an investigative tool much more.

---

yeah, take a brief look at history, the "fiction" in big brother wasnt the human tendancy to dominate and controll completely whatever and whoever they can, it WAS the technology used to do so. why do you think the USA exists?? most of the first immigrants/colonists call them what you will and even many today are people fleeing from nations that have those "fictional" ideals and goals. thats what the constitutional amendments are all about. of course i suppose in this day and age when people dont even remember what most of the amendments are you cant expect them to remember what any of them mean or why they were written. sad really.

[+Rumpled]

GPS tracking was recently used here in SoCal also. The Sheriff's Dept got a court order to try and follow their lead suspect in a case involving glass and nails being placed under slides and such in kids parks. They got their suspect redhanded in very short order.