Pitfalls/lessons-learned for a Complicated Multi

[+Fugads]

I am putting together what I hope will be a fun and challenging multi cache in my region but am trying to figure out how to make it long-lasting. The two main reasons why I am concerned the cache will have problems are:

1. Stages will contain clues/objects which need to be taken with you as you do the cache. These would need to be replaced after completion. I foresee confused cachers either not following directions, or finding it a drag to have to replace the clues/objects etc..
   
2. One of the stages is to contain an old digital camera that would be used to complete the multi. Camera is over 10 years old and was never very good to begin with, and is basically electronic junk in my house right now. How likely is it that this camera will "walk"? Anyone else have luck with caches containing "difficult to replace" items? Any tricks to help make sure the items stay where they belong?
   

The multi will be laid out along a desert trail, probably 2-4 miles round-trip, out-and-back style hike. I am sure there are other caches that use similar ideas/concepts and am looking to learn from the experience of those that have found/hid these kinds of caches. Again my goal is to create a fun geocaching experience, but also one that is long lasting. Any valuable lessons learned or advice is appreciated.

[+lamoracke]

Well, have done a number of multis that you need to carry tools with you from the first stage whether a specific tool or a box of tools or something else odd.

 

As long as you make it clear on the cache page that you need to return the item and the item could be in the process of being used, it should be fine. Make a note in the actual WP1 that if the tool you need is gone, perhaps someone is already using it right now.

 

Most multis do not get that much attention so chances are, once the first week has passed, the chance that two people will be doing it at the same time are pretty low.

 

As far as the camera goes, you have 2 issues, one, it could be taken, or two, it will stop working if you need to use it. Either of those scenarios could happen and it would be easier if you chose an item that you could foresee-ably replace. So, just factor that in. If its out in the desert and you clearly label that its needed for WP1 and not swag, I imagine you have a good chance of lasting for a while. However, even the best labeled items get taken as swag, especially if kids find it or cachers who may not be aware.

[+niraD]

1. I've done caches with physical pieces like this, and generally they worked well because the caches were designed as an "out and back" hike, where seekers needed to pass by the stage(s) where they got the object(s) on their way back to where they parked. It helped too that the caches were "destination caches" that took most people at least a couple hours, so fewer people would be in a rush to continue towards their next cache without heading back past the parking area.

 

2. I have a friend who always builds multiple copies of unique objects (camouflage, field puzzles, etc.). That way, when (not if) they go missing, he can replace them quickly. When he uses the last one, he builds more the next time he's in his workshop working on geocaching-related projects. But that may not work so well in this case, unless you've got a source for cheap digital cameras. But could the cache be redesigned to work with whatever digital camera the seeker happens to have? I've seen a number of caches where the seekers needed to bring something specific (a UV light, a tape measure, a magnetic compass, a very long grabbing tool, etc.) to complete the cache.

[team tisri]

I am putting together what I hope will be a fun and challenging multi cache in my region but am trying to figure out how to make it long-lasting. The two main reasons why I am concerned the cache will have problems are:

1. Stages will contain clues/objects which need to be taken with you as you do the cache. These would need to be replaced after completion. I foresee confused cachers either not following directions, or finding it a drag to have to replace the clues/objects etc..
   
2. One of the stages is to contain an old digital camera that would be used to complete the multi. Camera is over 10 years old and was never very good to begin with, and is basically electronic junk in my house right now. How likely is it that this camera will "walk"? Anyone else have luck with caches containing "difficult to replace" items? Any tricks to help make sure the items stay where they belong?
   

The multi will be laid out along a desert trail, probably 2-4 miles round-trip, out-and-back style hike. I am sure there are other caches that use similar ideas/concepts and am looking to learn from the experience of those that have found/hid these kinds of caches. Again my goal is to create a fun geocaching experience, but also one that is long lasting. Any valuable lessons learned or advice is appreciated.

 

I'd be very wary of providing a tool and expecting someone to retrace their steps to return it. Sooner or later someone will genuinely forget to return it, or decide they can't be bothered to return it (or maybe deciding it could come in handy and keeping it). Reading through the forums and seeing the times people expect to see everything "at a glance" I'd bank on it being sooner rather than later.

 

If you're using a knackered digital camera it might be a piece of junk that is worth nothing to you but if it walks your cache is dead in the water until you replace it. That presumably means sourcing a new digital camera.

 

My first thought if I read a cache description that said I needed to take a bunch of stuff with me, then return all the stuff to the right stages, would be to ignore the cache. Even if people try to do the right thing sooner or later you'll deal with stuff put back in the wrong place, or someone who gets to the beginning only to realise they still have the item that should have gone in stage 3 and just dumping it in stage 1. That may or may not be a problem, but if it won't fit in stage 1 so they improvise in a way that compromises the integrity of the cache it could result in multiple objects being lost.

 

With the seemingly relentless shift towards caches being little more than film pots behind signs and guard rails you may well find that few people attempt a multi that's clearly going to take an hour or more to complete, but as the saying goes it only takes one person to spoil it for everyone.

[+Fugads]

2. I have a friend who always builds multiple copies of unique objects (camouflage, field puzzles, etc.). That way, when (not if) they go missing, he can replace them quickly. When he uses the last one, he builds more the next time he's in his workshop working on geocaching-related projects. But that may not work so well in this case, unless you've got a source for cheap digital cameras. But could the cache be redesigned to work with whatever digital camera the seeker happens to have? I've seen a number of caches where the seekers needed to bring something specific (a UV light, a tape measure, a magnetic compass, a very long grabbing tool, etc.) to complete the cache.

 

Thanks for the feedback. Originally I was thinking that people would need to bring their own camera-type tool in order to complete the multi. I can see this frustrating some if what they bring doesn't work. And then I remembered about the old digital camera I have collecting dust in closet. Perhaps making a "bonus" waypoint to the camera for those who do not have a suitable TOTT on them would work. And if/when the camera disappears, then this bonus option will go away but the cache will still be findable if not a little bit more difficult. I don't have any intention of replacing the old digital camera, I just was thinking of a fun way to put it to use.

[+lookout.]

I am putting together what I hope will be a fun and challenging multi cache in my region but am trying to figure out how to make it long-lasting. The two main reasons why I am concerned the cache will have problems are:

1. Stages will contain clues/objects which need to be taken with you as you do the cache. These would need to be replaced after completion. I foresee confused cachers either not following directions, or finding it a drag to have to replace the clues/objects etc..
   
2. One of the stages is to contain an old digital camera that would be used to complete the multi. Camera is over 10 years old and was never very good to begin with, and is basically electronic junk in my house right now. How likely is it that this camera will "walk"? Anyone else have luck with caches containing "difficult to replace" items? Any tricks to help make sure the items stay where they belong?
   

The multi will be laid out along a desert trail, probably 2-4 miles round-trip, out-and-back style hike. I am sure there are other caches that use similar ideas/concepts and am looking to learn from the experience of those that have found/hid these kinds of caches. Again my goal is to create a fun geocaching experience, but also one that is long lasting. Any valuable lessons learned or advice is appreciated.

 

sounds like it should be a sweet multi, but my experience has been that any cache that requires you to gather tools that those tools will go missing. Might I suggest that at first you make it premium at first so that someone completely new to geocaching who doesnt know the rules to accidentally mess the whole thing up

[+terrkan78]

I have a two-stage cache where you take the "treasure map" out of the first stage, follow it to the final, then return the map to the first stage. I keep three maps in the first stage to forestall issues with them disappearing. I find them crumpled up or torn with some regularity (it's a kid-friendly cache, and I'm assuming that's the kids' handiwork), but the maps don't out-and-out disappear very often - maybe only three or four times since the cache was published in 09.

 

I've slowly been working on making a four-stage multi that will use "tools" a little more similar to what you're describing. I think it's inevitable that some will go missing (and I'm making multiples of the tools), but it's not published yet so I don't have any data. It might be helpful to label each tool as to which stage it goes back into. I could envision a situation where the cacher is holding multiple tools upon reaching the final and can't remember which tool goes where on the return trip.

 

Finally, a local cache that published in April has a very beat-up but usable digital camera inside with a note asking people to take a selfie. I found it shortly after publication and wondered if the camera would last. It's still there.

[+The_Incredibles_]

I think you should go for it. But, personally, I wouldn't even try something like that.

 

If you're going to do it, try to simplify it was much as possible so people don't get confused. Perhaps labeling pieces with which cache they belong in. If there are several objects belonging in 1 cache, perhaps attaching them to each other so no single piece gets lost. If there are objects that don't need moving, such as the camera (?), I would personally tether it to the cache container.

 

Failing that, you can collect a $50 deposit from them before they go out.

[+redsox_mark]

I've done caches like that and have enjoyed them. One thing to consider is a cache like that will get relatively little traffic (but those who find it should enjoy it). And I think that will also make it more likely that people will put the items back (especially if the route takes them back that way).

 

I have a multi stage cache which has a mp3 player provided in a stage which you must listen to. I provide spare batteries though suggest finders bring a battery of their own just in case. If the mp3 player breaks or goes missing I'll have to disable it until I can replace it (but it is cheap to replace). I suppose I should have bought a spare at the time to have one ready.

[Space*Cadet]

I am putting together what I hope will be a fun and challenging multi cache in my region but am trying to figure out how to make it long-lasting. The two main reasons why I am concerned the cache will have problems are:

1. Stages will contain clues/objects which need to be taken with you as you do the cache. These would need to be replaced after completion. I foresee confused cachers either not following directions, or finding it a drag to have to replace the clues/objects etc..
   
2. One of the stages is to contain an old digital camera that would be used to complete the multi. Camera is over 10 years old and was never very good to begin with, and is basically electronic junk in my house right now. How likely is it that this camera will "walk"? Anyone else have luck with caches containing "difficult to replace" items? Any tricks to help make sure the items stay where they belong?
   

The multi will be laid out along a desert trail, probably 2-4 miles round-trip, out-and-back style hike. I am sure there are other caches that use similar ideas/concepts and am looking to learn from the experience of those that have found/hid these kinds of caches. Again my goal is to create a fun geocaching experience, but also one that is long lasting. Any valuable lessons learned or advice is appreciated.

 

This subject reminded me of a Night Cache I went on a couple years ago. The First stage contained a laser light tool that you had to remove from a specially made box, and then there was a bracket mounted above the "box", on a tree and the instructions in the box stated to place the "tool" in the bracket to find the next stage. So once you placed the laser in the bracket you would then follow where the beam landed to find the next mounting bracket. It was a fun & unique night cache, and once you found the final, you needed to return the laser back to the box. I figured that someday that laser would disappear. I just checked to see if the cache was still available, and sure enough it's "disabled" because the "tool" has disappeared. So, you are counting on each cacher to be honorable enough to return the "tools" to the first stage. If it's easy to backtrack and do this, they will probably do it, but if you have to go out of your way to return the tool, chances are the "tool" will probably disappear. Sorry to say.

[+Fugads]

Thanks to all who provided me some feedback. The cache is now out, pre-reviewed and ready to be published for an event at the end of the month. After the feedback I received, I hemmed and hawed about what to do. In the end, the location is what pushed me to doing the cache a certain way. About a 3rd of the way up the canyon was a beautiful little side canyon. I placed the field-puzzle and tool in the main canyon and had them direct the seekers into the side canyon to find another stage. After finding that stage, they have to back track past the previous stages and can drop off the puzzle/tool on their way to the final. All tools and puzzles are well labeled with where they belong and I even managed to work some reminders into the puzzle to help seekers remember to replace items where they were found. I'm hoping this is enough to keep the cache as required for years to come. That and the low traffic due to being a hiking cache and in a moderately remote area. If it doesn't work out, I guess I'll just have to nip back up there and change things about. But for the time being, I'm quite pleased with how it turned out and am excited for cachers to give it a go.

[+Meandering WA]

sounds like it would be fun, for sure something I would do.

 

wonder about the battery life of the camera, though, particularly out in the elements.

[+kunarion]

Failing that, you can collect a $50 deposit from them before they go out.

People who intend to hunt my caches have only a few simple forms to fill out first, and I accept credit cards.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

[+Fugads]

wonder about the battery life of the camera, though, particularly out in the elements.

The camera takes two AAs. I put a set in the container with the camera, but when they die, I assume people will just have to figure out to use/bring their own.