Puzzle Caches

[+The_Roots]

I have just had 2 hides denied due to proximity conflicts with 3 puzzle caches. My City reviewer contacted our local reviewer and is told of the conflict. Looking at the map, I can't see that there is a puzzle nearby, How on earth am I supposed to know where those are?

 

How do you guys deal with puzzle caches when trying to place your hides?

[+CanadianRockies]

If you ask your Volunteer Reviewer for the names of the conflicting puzzle (or multi) caches, there's a good chance they will tell you. They just won't tell you where their final coordinates are.

 

Once you have the puzzle names, you might be able to solve them and determine for yourself where they are located. You also can contact the cache owners and see if they can give you some help on which direction to move your own placement.

[+Legochugglers]

I have just had 2 hides denied due to proximity conflicts with 3 puzzle caches. My City reviewer contacted our local reviewer and is told of the conflict. Looking at the map, I can't see that there is a puzzle nearby, How on earth am I supposed to know where those are?

 

How do you guys deal with puzzle caches when trying to place your hides?

I do the puzzles so I know where they are hidden.

[+The_Roots]

If you ask your Volunteer Reviewer for the names of the conflicting puzzle (or multi) caches, there's a good chance they will tell you. They just won't tell you where their final coordinates are.

 

Once you have the puzzle names, you might be able to solve them and determine for yourself where they are located. You also can contact the cache owners and see if they can give you some help on which direction to move your own placement.

 

It's a small park, there won't be room to add another. I don't mind changing the location, I thought it strange that there wasn't one in such a pretty place.

 

What I am more looking for is how to avoid the conflict in the future so when I go to place these two again we don't have the same issue.

[+lamoracke]

Well, you can try to solve all the puzzles within 2 miles or so (and multis and wherigos and even letterboxes) to try and get most of them figured out. Some caches may be further away.

 

If a cache is outside my puzzle solving radius, then I would ask a reviewer first if your spot is good...if I want to hide a cache in the area where I know all the puzzles/multis solve, then I know where they are myself, most likely.

[+CanadianRockies]

What I am more looking for is how to avoid the conflict in the future so when I go to place these two again we don't have the same issue.

If you find a location, you can get the coordinates, create a skeleton cache listing that includes those coordinates, and enable that listing with a Reviewer Note requesting a "proximity check." The reviewer will see if your location is too close to any existing caches.

 

This won't save you the time needed to find the location, but it will save you time if you intend to customize your cache container for the spot or create an elaborate cache listing page.

[+The_Roots]

I have just had 2 hides denied due to proximity conflicts with 3 puzzle caches. My City reviewer contacted our local reviewer and is told of the conflict. Looking at the map, I can't see that there is a puzzle nearby, How on earth am I supposed to know where those are?

 

How do you guys deal with puzzle caches when trying to place your hides?

I do the puzzles so I know where they are hidden.

 

I can't see a puzzle where I am trying to hide mine. The park to me, shows a lovely open park.

[+The_Roots]

What I am more looking for is how to avoid the conflict in the future so when I go to place these two again we don't have the same issue.

If you find a location, you can get the coordinates, create a skeleton cache listing that includes those coordinates, and enable that listing with a Reviewer Note requesting a "proximity check." The reviewer will see if your location is too close to any existing caches.

 

This won't save you the time needed to find the location, but it will save you time if you intend to customize your cache container for the spot or create an elaborate cache listing page.

 

That is helpful, I didn't know I could do that. In my city, we have to submit to the City for the OK before requesting approval on Geocaching.com. I will try checking with the reviewer before sending to the city then.

Thanks!

[+Team Microdot]

I have just had 2 hides denied due to proximity conflicts with 3 puzzle caches. My City reviewer contacted our local reviewer and is told of the conflict. Looking at the map, I can't see that there is a puzzle nearby, How on earth am I supposed to know where those are?

 

How do you guys deal with puzzle caches when trying to place your hides?

I do the puzzles so I know where they are hidden.

 

I can't see a puzzle where I am trying to hide mine. The park to me, shows a lovely open park.

 

The actual coordinates of the physical cache is typically anywhere within two miles of the coordinates given on the cache page - sometimes a little more.

[+The_Roots]

Well, you can try to solve all the puzzles within 2 miles or so (and multis and wherigos and even letterboxes) to try and get most of them figured out. Some caches may be further away.

 

If a cache is outside my puzzle solving radius, then I would ask a reviewer first if your spot is good...if I want to hide a cache in the area where I know all the puzzles/multis solve, then I know where they are myself, most likely.

 

Puzzles hurt my head

 

I'll try checking with the reviewer with a proximity check before submitting to my City reviewer next time. Thanks!

[Space*Cadet]

 

How do you guys deal with puzzle caches when trying to place your hides?

 

by Solving the puzzle in question.

[+niraD]

See the Help Center article Checking for Cache Saturation.

 

Personally, before I've invested effort into building the camouflage for a cache, I've contacted a local reviewer to verify that the location is available (as described in the Help Center article above).

[AZcachemeister]

I have just had 2 hides denied due to proximity conflicts with 3 puzzle caches. My City reviewer contacted our local reviewer and is told of the conflict. Looking at the map, I can't see that there is a puzzle nearby, How on earth am I supposed to know where those are?

 

How do you guys deal with puzzle caches when trying to place your hides?

I do the puzzles so I know where they are hidden.

 

I can't see a puzzle where I am trying to hide mine. The park to me, shows a lovely open park.

 

I just had a look at the map around your one hidden cache, which I assume is near your home and the park where you want to place your new cache.

 

The area is literally CRAWLING with little blue question marks!

 

Looks like you do have your work cut out for you if you want to keep clear of them.

[+jfiehler]

I just had a hide denied this weekend for being too close to a final stage of a puzzle cache. This is the first time it has happened to me and was pretty infuriating given that I couldn't see any caches in close proximity to where I had placed this one. We thought we had carefully researched the area we were going to hide in and then spent a few hours finding the perfect spot for the hide at the location. It was really disappointing to be rejected by the reviewer, especially for my 5th grade son who had made the cache container and found the final hide spot.

 

Ultimately, this has made me reconsider if we'll bother to hide caches in the future, given the crapshoot that placing them can be. One of the reviewers that responded to my cache submission compared hiding caches to Battleship: MISS, MISS, HIT. I really don't have that kind of time.

 

This could be solved via better hide tools on the Geocaching website. The current (barely documented) process of handling proximity checks manually via human reviewers is pretty silly. A Proximity Check feature could be built into the Hide a Cache userflow (which could use a complete overhaul, in my opinion) that would alert the Hider that their selected coordinates are too close to another cache or waypoint without revealing any of the hidden waypoints or finals (puzzle, multi-cache, etc.).

[+MartyBartfast]

that would alert the Hider that their selected coordinates are too close to another cache or waypoint without revealing any of the hidden waypoints or finals (puzzle, multi-cache, etc.).

I suspect that's what the reviewer was referring to when they mentioned Battleships. Given such a tool it wouldn't take more than 10 minutes with the tool to figure out where a puzzle cache is hidden so you would never need to solve a puzzle or multi ever again - this method has been commonly referred to as "Battleshipping".

[+fizzymagic]

Ultimately, this has made me reconsider if we'll bother to hide caches in the future, given the crapshoot that placing them can be.

 

Please don't take this the wrong way, but that is a good thing. Consider yourself lucky to have discovered early on that you don't have the temperament to be a cache owner.

 

Because what you have described may well be the least of the inconveniences and annoying things you will have to deal with as a cache owner. Being a good cache owner requires a very thick skin and a lot of patience. If you find yourself so upset over having your first listing denied because of proximity, the chances are pretty good that you are not cut out to be a cache owner.

[+The_Incredibles_]

If you find yourself so upset over having your first listing denied because of proximity, the chances are pretty good that you are not cut out to be a cache owner.

 

I wouldn't jump to that conclusion. I remember doing alot of ranting and raving after our first few proximity bumps. For one cache, my daughter and I were both in tears trying to find a spot for it. In time, I got used to it and now have placed (and maintained) dozens of caches successfully. It IS possible to develop thicker skin.

[+Team Microdot]

A related question - if I may?

 

I think it's generally accepted that most people like to find nice caches in nice locations...

 

I see that people looking to hide a geocache, often newer cachers perhaps hiding for the first time, struggle / become disheartened and frustrated when their chosen location is blocked due to proximity with a puzzle cache...

 

So to help out - let's say I was going to hide a puzzle cache and decided that, in order to avoid upsetting people by causing them proximity issues, I would hide it in a very ordinary location with nothing remarkable about it - or even a comparatively poor location, leaving those nice locations for people hiding traditional caches, perhaps for the first time - to make things nice and easy for them.

 

Would those people who like to solve and find puzzle caches accept this and see it as a fair trade for the enjoyment of a clever / interesting / stimulating puzzle? Or would they prefer, having gone to the extra effort of solving the puzzle, that they too get to find a nice cache in a nice location?

[+The_Roots]

I just had a look at the map around your one hidden cache, which I assume is near your home and the park where you want to place your new cache.

 

The area is literally CRAWLING with little blue question marks!

 

Looks like you do have your work cut out for you if you want to keep clear of them.

 

I do have another hide coming up in that park but that is not the one that I ran into complications with. The problem one is a few blocks away.

 

Did I tell you that I love puzzles?

[+The_Roots]

A related question - if I may?

 

I think it's generally accepted that most people like to find nice caches in nice locations...

 

I see that people looking to hide a geocache, often newer cachers perhaps hiding for the first time, struggle / become disheartened and frustrated when their chosen location is blocked due to proximity with a puzzle cache...

 

So to help out - let's say I was going to hide a puzzle cache and decided that, in order to avoid upsetting people by causing them proximity issues, I would hide it in a very ordinary location with nothing remarkable about it - or even a comparatively poor location, leaving those nice locations for people hiding traditional caches, perhaps for the first time - to make things nice and easy for them.

 

Would those people who like to solve and find puzzle caches accept this and see it as a fair trade for the enjoyment of a clever / interesting / stimulating puzzle? Or would they prefer, having gone to the extra effort of solving the puzzle, that they too get to find a nice cache in a nice location?

 

I don't think that either should compromise for the other. Both are awesome in their own right and deserve good spots. (Although please don't make me solve a puzzle and stick a micro in a parking lot for the final.. that does suck)

I just wish we could find a way to make it a bit clearer to those of us trying to hide traditional caches not to run afoul of the proximity rule for a cache we can't see. But how do you do that without compromising the point of a puzzle?

[Clan Riffster]

A related question - if I may?

 

Would those people who like to solve and find puzzle caches accept this and see it as a fair trade for the enjoyment of a clever / interesting / stimulating puzzle? Or would they prefer, having gone to the extra effort of solving the puzzle, that they too get to find a nice cache in a nice location?

The motto of Groundspeak is "The Language of Location". Granted, 500 acres of exhaust laden, sweltering blacktop, bristling with soccer mom driven SUVs is a location, technically speaking. But I doubt that's what they had in mind. As a lover of puzzles, I can tell you that spending days solving one, only to be brought to a crappy location, is a huge letdown, for me. Please, if you are going to create an interesting puzzle, or Wherigo, or multi, make the location as wonderful as the rest of the cache. Don't sentence puzzle solvers to mediocrity.

[+ArtieD]

Ultimately, this has made me reconsider if we'll bother to hide caches in the future, given the crapshoot that placing them can be. One of the reviewers that responded to my cache submission compared hiding caches to Battleship: MISS, MISS, HIT. I really don't have that kind of time.

 

I see you're in St. Louis. Being from Missouri myself, I know all the reviewers well and they are some of the best folks out there. They are very willing to work with you to help get your cache published. You already have two caches published, so why are you letting one setback throw you off of hiding caches in the future? I know I have had to adjust my hides in a few cases to get them listed, so I know you can too.

 

Taking your toys home in a huff is not the way to go. You live in one of the greatest caching communities I know, so ask for assistance if you need it. I know people would be glad to help.

 

On a side note, I will say that if you "don't have that kind of time" to simply adjust a final location, you don't have time to be a cache owner at all.

Edited May 29, 2013 by Arthur & Trillian

[+niraD]

I think it's generally accepted that most people like to find nice caches in nice locations...

Sure, although definitions of "nice" vary more than you night think.

 

I see that people looking to hide a geocache, often newer cachers perhaps hiding for the first time, struggle / become disheartened and frustrated when their chosen location is blocked due to proximity with a puzzle cache...

 

So to help out - let's say I was going to hide a puzzle cache and decided that, in order to avoid upsetting people by causing them proximity issues, I would hide it in a very ordinary location with nothing remarkable about it - or even a comparatively poor location, leaving those nice locations for people hiding traditional caches, perhaps for the first time - to make things nice and easy for them.

 

Would those people who like to solve and find puzzle caches accept this and see it as a fair trade for the enjoyment of a clever / interesting / stimulating puzzle? Or would they prefer, having gone to the extra effort of solving the puzzle, that they too get to find a nice cache in a nice location?

Yes.

 

Personally, I'm happy with mundane locations for clever puzzles, although I enjoy puzzle caches with in-theme locations, on-site physical puzzles, and challenging hides.

 

Some puzzlers think the find should be all but automatic once they've solved the puzzles. Some puzzlers think a mundane location ruins any value a clever puzzle might have had. You'll never be able to satisfy those at either extreme.

 

My thought is to stop worrying about what kinds of caches others think you should hide. Instead, hide the kinds of caches you want to own. There will always be someone who doesn't like what you've done, but fortunately there are plenty of other caches for them to choose from.

[+redsox_mark]

 

So to help out - let's say I was going to hide a puzzle cache and decided that, in order to avoid upsetting people by causing them proximity issues, I would hide it in a very ordinary location with nothing remarkable about it - or even a comparatively poor location, leaving those nice locations for people hiding traditional caches, perhaps for the first time - to make things nice and easy for them.

 

Would those people who like to solve and find puzzle caches accept this and see it as a fair trade for the enjoyment of a clever / interesting / stimulating puzzle? Or would they prefer, having gone to the extra effort of solving the puzzle, that they too get to find a nice cache in a nice location?

 

I see the logic, but no, I would prefer a good location as well.

 

Having said that - once I've solved a puzzle I will be motivated to find it. I'll look at where it is on the map. Even if it is an "ordinary" location, I'll look for it, and be happy (but not as happy as a nice location). Now if the cache is in poor location, then I'm disappointed. A lot of things can make a cache poor; but for me poor means I found the finding experience to be unpleasant in some way.

 

For example:

 

A. Great puzzle and cache location: A likely favourite, and I'll look out for other puzzles by you.

 

B. Great puzzle, cache is a park and grab, in an unexciting but in a quiet location with no issues - OK. I'll look at your other puzzles as well, but not with so much enthusiasm as case A. In these cases there is often a longer delay before I find the cache; I.e I'll solve the puzzle and find the cache the next time I'm passing by.

 

C. Great puzzle, cache is hidden on a smelly trash dumpster overlooked by muggles - I'll think twice about doing your puzzles in the future.

[+Team Microdot]

My thought is to stop worrying about what kinds of caches others think you should hide. Instead, hide the kinds of caches you want to own. There will always be someone who doesn't like what you've done, but fortunately there are plenty of other caches for them to choose from.

 

Sound advice - apart from the bit about worrying. I don't worry - I do care. After all, when I hide a cache or set a puzzle, that isn't something I'm going to go out and find myself - it's for the enjoyment of others, so it makes sense to me to take the views of others on board.

 

Truth be told I've no plans to hide puzzle caches, or any caches for that matter, in cr@ppy locations just to avoid upsetting someone who might subsequently struggle with a placement as a result of proximity to one of mine - but I am still aware that might happen and if I can help prevent it by altering my practices in some small way(s) I would consider that worthy of consideration

 

I live in a cache dense area so one thing I've done in the past is look at the map for as large an area as possible with no caches in it at all and hidden my puzzle cache there. Areas like this are rare around here and their existence is usually down to the landscape being inhospitable to cache hiding i.e. there's nowhere to easily hide one because there's no tree cover or vegetation there. This of course requires some effort in constructing something that will blend in naturally in such a location and thus facilitate a hide, but when I've gone to that effort one influencing factor has been the fact that I'm unlikely to cause proximity difficulties for someone else.

[+Don_J]

Well, you can try to solve all the puzzles within 2 miles or so (and multis and wherigos and even letterboxes) to try and get most of them figured out. Some caches may be further away.

 

If a cache is outside my puzzle solving radius, then I would ask a reviewer first if your spot is good...if I want to hide a cache in the area where I know all the puzzles/multis solve, then I know where they are myself, most likely.

 

Puzzles hurt my head

 

I'll try checking with the reviewer with a proximity check before submitting to my City reviewer next time. Thanks!

 

They hurt my head also, and many of them I simply can't solve. There is a concentration of puzzles about five miles away from me so I pretty much don't even think about hiding a cache in that area.

[+Don_J]

Ultimately, this has made me reconsider if we'll bother to hide caches in the future, given the crapshoot that placing them can be.

 

Please don't take this the wrong way, but that is a good thing. Consider yourself lucky to have discovered early on that you don't have the temperament to be a cache owner.

 

Because what you have described may well be the least of the inconveniences and annoying things you will have to deal with as a cache owner. Being a good cache owner requires a very thick skin and a lot of patience. If you find yourself so upset over having your first listing denied because of proximity, the chances are pretty good that you are not cut out to be a cache owner.

 

I don't think that this is true at all. I can deal with all of the inconveniences and annoying things that come with being a cache owner, yet I still don't like the idea that there are hidden waypoints out there that can affect my ability to hide caches. I have been lucky that the puzzles around here are concentrated in one small area that I can easily ignore, but I have seen maps of areas where the blue overpowers everything else. As a cacher that does not have the ability to solve the majority of the puzzles, I would feel that I was being relegated to a second class cacher, one that can only play half the game.

 

It's real easy for some to sit here and post, "Just solve the puzzles", but for a lot of us that simply isn't possible.