Glue (liquid nails) instead of nails in a tree

[+Sharks-N-Beans]

Last weekend we saw a special alley with alot of rare and old trees

clearly those trees are looked after by skilled experts to make them look good and live very long,

each tree had a metal sign with a number screwed into it, a very good and big screw was used,

I am very sure if this have any, even a slight negative effect on the bark or tree, they would no have done this.

The property owner/manager has the right to do what they want. Geocachers do not.

[+JKMonkey]

actually youd be surprised how little putting nails in a tree actually harms the tree itself, much less than the chemicals in the liquid nail mixture, which is usually only used because the chemical bonds within the mixture hold up much better over time than actual nails do under the same conditions

[+wvmarle]

actually youd be surprised how little putting nails in a tree actually harms the tree itself, much less than the chemicals in the liquid nail mixture, which is usually only used because the chemical bonds within the mixture hold up much better over time than actual nails do under the same conditions

Reading this topic as I'm preparing for maintenance on one of my night caches. That uses small reflectors attached to trees using small nails (the smallest that I could find; and not nailed in completely to allow removal).

 

It is quite interesting how so many people complain that nailing trees is so bad for the trees.

 

While bushwhacking to get to a cache is something that's considered normal by most, and many wouldn't think twice of doing so. Especially to get to all those caches that are not placed right next to an established trial.

 

And we even have a "tree climbing" attribute for caches.

 

So tree climbing is totally OK. Putting a small nail in a tree not. That just doesn't make sense: I do think sending dozens of geocachers up a tree is doing way more damage to that tree than a simple nail could ever do.

[+J Grouchy]

actually youd be surprised how little putting nails in a tree actually harms the tree itself, much less than the chemicals in the liquid nail mixture, which is usually only used because the chemical bonds within the mixture hold up much better over time than actual nails do under the same conditions

Reading this topic as I'm preparing for maintenance on one of my night caches. That uses small reflectors attached to trees using small nails (the smallest that I could find; and not nailed in completely to allow removal).

 

It is quite interesting how so many people complain that nailing trees is so bad for the trees.

 

While bushwhacking to get to a cache is something that's considered normal by most, and many wouldn't think twice of doing so. Especially to get to all those caches that are not placed right next to an established trial.

 

And we even have a "tree climbing" attribute for caches.

 

So tree climbing is totally OK. Putting a small nail in a tree not. That just doesn't make sense: I do think sending dozens of geocachers up a tree is doing way more damage to that tree than a simple nail could ever do.

 

This is a very valid point.

[+Sharks-N-Beans]

And we even have a "tree climbing" attribute for caches.

 

So tree climbing is totally OK. Putting a small nail in a tree not. That just doesn't make sense: I do think sending dozens of geocachers up a tree is doing way more damage to that tree than a simple nail could ever do.

Like it or not, it's a perception thing. Society can and does see tree climbing as a very natural outdoor activity that stems from our days as children. Although I hammered my fair share of nails into trees creating tree forts at the same time, it is just frowned upon now. Some guidelines are there to protect outside perception of the activity and to have a justification to stop a CO who takes things too far....just a lone opinion.

[Zerpersande]

Seriously, if firetacks are allowed for night caches, can we use regular tacks to attach things? As AZcachemeister said, little harm can be done to the dead outer bark layer of a tree.

 

On a slightly side topic.... I was visiting our local arboretum last week and many of the trees had metal identification tags attached to them with drywall screws.

I've gotten raked over the coals for using screw eyes. The guy doing the raking actually came by and checked some of my first caches. Said he had fun, liked my caches, etc. Then when I placed a high difficulty one and he couldn't find it, I had suddenly be found guilty of harming trees. In both cases, I had placed the eye screws, small ones, in the fork of a tree where there was a build up of bark. No harm to the tree.

 

I bet you could hammer in a 4" nail into a healthy tree about 6" in diameter and the nail wouldn't decrease the lifetime of the tree to any measurable degree. Extremists. Using common sense should suffice as advice. Liquid nails is used in the constructions of homes and people are worried about the effects of the solvents on TREES? That stuff evaporates. Can be absorbed, but through a layer of dead bark? How about in a house? Not quite the same ventilation effect as a tree out in the woods.

[+ByronForestPreserve]

I think it's the bigger picture. Not just one nail in a tree...but the person who would create an entire ladder of 2x4 pieces to their cache way at the top of a tree, and would argue that "puting nails in trees isn't against the rules." Instead of creating complex guidelines for what is acceptable and what isn't, the rule simply stands "no nails."

[+ras_oscar]

I think it's the bigger picture. Not just one nail in a tree...but the person who would create an entire ladder of 2x4 pieces to their cache way at the top of a tree, and would argue that "puting nails in trees isn't against the rules." Instead of creating complex guidelines for what is acceptable and what isn't, the rule simply stands "no nails."

 

I think the guideline intent is even simpler. Leave no trace. The cache owner should be able to arrive at GZ, remove the container, and there should be no evidence that the cache was ever there. Nails, screws, etc can be removed but will leave a mark that will take time to heal.

[+justintim1999]

You never know...you could chain it to the tree and a few decades from now it could be a local landmark.

 

 

So that's where my bike went..... PRICELESS!!!!

[4wheelin_fool]

Seriously, if firetacks are allowed for night caches, can we use regular tacks to attach things? As AZcachemeister said, little harm can be done to the dead outer bark layer of a tree.

 

On a slightly side topic.... I was visiting our local arboretum last week and many of the trees had metal identification tags attached to them with drywall screws.

I've gotten raked over the coals for using screw eyes. The guy doing the raking actually came by and checked some of my first caches. Said he had fun, liked my caches, etc. Then when I placed a high difficulty one and he couldn't find it, I had suddenly be found guilty of harming trees. In both cases, I had placed the eye screws, small ones, in the fork of a tree where there was a build up of bark. No harm to the tree.

 

I bet you could hammer in a 4" nail into a healthy tree about 6" in diameter and the nail wouldn't decrease the lifetime of the tree to any measurable degree. Extremists. Using common sense should suffice as advice. Liquid nails is used in the constructions of homes and people are worried about the effects of the solvents on TREES? That stuff evaporates. Can be absorbed, but through a layer of dead bark? How about in a house? Not quite the same ventilation effect as a tree out in the woods.

 

Contrary to popular belief the guidelines are not necessarily in place to protect trees, but to appease land managers who do not want any permanent disfiguration done to their forest by the public. In California a hole was bored into a massive redwood because local cachers had gotten accustomed to using nails and screws without thought. Your hide may be fine, but the copycat who does the same to something slightly different may get the game banned. Many public forests are harvested for wood by logging companies, and you know what happens when a nail hits a sawblade?

 

little harm can be done to the dead outer bark layer of a tree.

 

The inside of a tree only provides strength to hold it up. All of the nutrients are carried through the bark layer which is the most important. Cutting a narrow band of bark off of a tree in a complete circle is known as "girdling" and will kill it. A small hole in the bark can lead to rot and insect damage which often kills trees long term. Once nails are used, it's best to leave them in, unless there is a chance of the tree being cut down.

[+kwcahart]

Nails do NOT hurt trees. Have you people ever seen a woodpecker? Or a sapsucker? We had a beautiful Pear tree that stopped producing, my Dad put a couple of hundred nails in the tree, the next year and for years afterward we had the best pears we had ever had. I don't care what the tree huggers and environmentalist tell you, nails do not hurt trees. If it is a tree that will be harvested for wood of poles or etc, yeah, it's not a good ideal, but it still does NOT harm the tree itself.

[+Ben0w]

Reading this topic as I'm preparing for maintenance on one of my night caches. That uses small reflectors attached to trees using small nails (the smallest that I could find; and not nailed in completely to allow removal).

 

It is quite interesting how so many people complain that nailing trees is so bad for the trees.

One really should understand, that it does not harm the life of the tree but the value! A tree, from a land owners perspective, is not (only) a life form, but base of his business. A small nail is enough to damage a saw blade or let the metal detector of the sawmill sort the whole tree out, even when removed a nail already may have caused discoloration in the wood and may be an entry point for infections and bugs. So, putting a nail into the tree is a real monetary issue, worth at least several 100$, depending of the wood up to far more. This will take effect in 20, 50, 80 or even more years, when the tree is harvested. Do you really think this long term when trying to put your cache somewhere? Regarding their future (long term) business land owners surely are concerned what happens in their woods!

 

While bushwhacking to get to a cache is something that's considered normal by most, and many wouldn't think twice of doing so. Especially to get to all those caches that are not placed right next to an established trial.

Bushwacking isn't OK either, but that's not the topic here. It doesn't affect the land owner in the same way as a nail in a tree, since bushes aren't part of the wood production process. But it may affect the wildlife, which in turn is again part of the (hunting) business AKA the landowner's money. If done more or less carefully and with a little luck to not disturb wildlife, bush whacking isn't that much of a problem. But unless you're really know,, what you're are doing, you should consider it potentially harmful to nature (especially animals) as well.

 

And we even have a "tree climbing" attribute for caches.

 

So tree climbing is totally OK. Putting a small nail in a tree not. That just doesn't make sense: I do think sending dozens of geocachers up a tree is doing way more damage to that tree than a simple nail could ever do.

You can't harm a real tree by climbing it, if you're at least a bit cautious and as long as you don't rip off large parts.

 

Woodpeckers and other animals will harm trees, too. But they most probably affect trees that are ill or at least they are not bound by laws and guidelines as a human geocacher. Don't compare yourself with wildlife unless you're in urgent need to survive in the nature...and I guess, to find/hide a cache isn't your main concern then.

 

Respecting the trees and wildlife is the same as respecting the land owners property and thus making future geocaching possible without restrictions due to uncreative cache hiders. There is always a way to hide a good geocache without harming other's belongings against their will.

[+TheWeatherWarrior]

Bottom line is, if you're here in the forums asking for permission, you probably already know what the correct answer is.

Ah NO.....dumbest response ever! Nothing personal, but that response negates the ENTIRE point to a discussion forum!

[+TheWeatherWarrior]

Adding some thoughts & comments.

 

There is differences in talking about trees that are in forests, or are landscape features, are on private property, public accessible private property and the various kinds of public property (from forests, parks to unimproved streets and other right-of-ways). I certainly see NOT doing anything to trees on a tree farm or that effect a business, but in the context of geocaching...I doubt that .0001% of caches are placed or even considered in places where harvesting is done.

 

Good points on the chemical part of liquid nails. I'm not super worried about some catastrophic effect much in the same way nails don't do significant damage. However, the mention about various aspects as not to do so are good ones.

 

Yes, nails are not that harmful to trees. I've had multiple treehouses throughout my childhood. At one point, one of them was the tallest in Maryland (floor was 45 feet high in a tulip maple). It was large too. In the same area there was an old treehouse that had many of those 2x4 steps from the bottom to the top. The 2x4s were rotted but the tree was fine (still stands today...probably 30 years). Our treehouse got cut down for new housing. Ours even had a huge bridge that used nails, screws, straps, chains, etc. Was up for 10 years, zero sign of damage.

 

Remember, this is mostly just for discussion, ideas, tips, suggestions, etc. Heck....a little off-topic relation is fine (the bushwacking tangent). It is a forum, not a debate competition with points and awards on the line.

[+bflentje]

Bottom line is, if you're here in the forums asking for permission, you probably already know what the correct answer is.

Ah NO.....dumbest response ever! Nothing personal, but that response negates the ENTIRE point to a discussion forum!

 

Yeah, but if I just glue it to the bark... oh hogwash. You have a valid point for many topics but this one? No way.