Cache on an active bridge

[Fife Club]

There's a particular bridge that has a unique "only place in the world" fact about it. I want to plant a cache highlighting this fact. I *can* place it somewhere along the shoreline within sight of the bridge, but that's cheesy so if possible I really want to get people on to the bridge, and in particular to the one spot in the center that makes it notable. I should note here that this is a very active bridge with lots of traffic but it does have pedestrian walkways on both sides, so it shouldn't be a safely issue.

 

I've already read the guidelines stating that "a cache may be disabled or archived if ... the cache is problematic due to its proximity to a public structure, including and not limited to, highway bridges". I am also keenly aware that above all else, I do not want to do anything that can even possibly be mistaken as a security issue or draw the attention of authorities, which means that I don't want people spending more than a few seconds at ground zero.

 

So knowing that I can't have anything larger than a nano or else it could cause security concerns, and that I actually don't want anybody stopping on the bridge for more than a few seconds max, here is my only idea for how to do this: What if I made this a multi-cache and you only had walk on the bridge to get the location of the next stage (which would be located somewhere off the bridge). To make the bridge find as easy and quick as possible (under 10 seconds at GZ is my goal), it would only be a tiny 1" magnet placed on the guardrail (easily found if I told you what to be looking for) that when you picked it up contained a few numbers or letters that would allow you to find the second stage. The find should - in theory - take just a few seconds so you could take a quick peek and just keep moving along. This way the physical box and the logbook would not be on the bridge but at least I would accomplish my goal of getting people to visit that one spot that makes the bridge one-of-a-kind. My plan B would be the same general idea but instead of a few characters on a small magnet, would be *if* this spot on the bridge just happened to have any unique numbers or letters on it already and so I could use to help decipher stage 2.

 

After explaining all the details to a reviewer (possibly including photos), do you think this would be a problem? Are bridges always off-limits or do you think what I described may be OK? Thoughts?

[knowschad]

I am aware of one multi-cache that uses something at the center of a busy bridge as a "question-to-answer" type of first stage. Would you consider something like that?

[+The Blorenges]

This was an excellent local cache that's been archived recently, you had to park some distance off the bridge, walk to the centre to get letters/numbers, walk back to car, then get onto the track under the bridge to find the cache, walk again to location. Total walking was about 5 miles.

 

Severn thunder above and below.

 

MrsB

[Fife Club]

It's good to know that what I was thinking of has been done before. I suppose I need to pay another visit to the bridge and check whether there are any unique characters already there. If not, I'd have to give some thought as to what else I could possibly ask somebody that they could only answer after visiting the center of the bridge.

 

But if I can't find anything there to use as a clue for stage 2, do you think one small magnet (with no container) would cause any problems with the Groundspeak rules?

[+Two Ton Whale]

I've done a multi with the first point in the middle of a bridge. You had to count the rows of bolts and then substitute that into the formula for the next coords. Could work if there is something similar there, that you could only know if you visited the spot.

[+BBWolf+3Pigs]

Why are you looking to minimize the time on the bridge? Is walking not allowed on it? Are you not allowed (legally) to stop on the bridge with your car?

[+Isonzo Karst]

If there's a pedestrian walkway on the bridge, you should be fine. Personally I'd go with "*if* this spot on the bridge just happened to have any unique numbers or letters on it already". That way, you place nothing, and there's nothing to go missing, and nothing to be upset anyone.

 

I own a number of caches set up like this, including one where the first stage is on a pedestrian walk over an interstate.

[Fife Club]

Thanks everybody. I will first revisit the spot to see if I can avoid placing anything physical on the structure.

 

Why are you looking to minimize the time on the bridge? Is walking not allowed on it? Are you not allowed (legally) to stop on the bridge with your car?

There's a pedestrian walkway on both sides of the bridge so it's 100% legal [edit] to walk across [/edit]and OK to be there but it's so rare to see anybody ever walking that even being there would at least guarantee people notice you. And it's a long bridge too (1/3 mile) so you're out in the open. I think if you stopped and looked over the edge (beautiful view), people may think you were going fishing off the side which I assume is not allowed since boats go underneath. Edited August 21, 2012 by Fife Club

[+St.Matthew]

Wait, you're allowed to have active driving bridges be virtual stages aka questions to answer? Neat.

[+Harry Dolphin]

Why are you looking to minimize the time on the bridge? Is walking not allowed on it? Are you not allowed (legally) to stop on the bridge with your car?

 

I can think of a few bridges where, while it's legal to walk, everyone is under camera surveillance. Spending too much time at one point will bring out the surveillance crew. One of those has a 'find something on the plaque' for the coords to the final. That cache owner went through a long conversation with the revieewer to get it approved.

Some areas are far more paranoid than others, so your mileage might vary. NYNJPA does not permit taking pictures on their bridges. (or in it's tunnels.) Not sure what that is supposed to help. It cannot stop you from taking pictures of its bridges! Welcome to post 911 paranoia! I've got a photo of a car fire on the George Washington Bridge taken from the Long Trail. When we got back to the trail head, the car had been towed there. Had a chat with the car occupants.

You would need to discuss with your reviewer what would be permitted on the bridge.

You can not put anything on a bridge in the NYC area. Completely banned! But it might work in Maine or Michigan or Minnesota.

Ask your reviewer.

[+The A-Team]

Are you not allowed (legally) to stop on the bridge with your car?

I'm thinking about it really hard, and I can't think of a single bridge where it's legal to stop your car unless it's an emergency. Maybe things are different in other parts of the world, but it would be illegal and an extremely bad idea to stop on any bridge in this region (southwestern BC, Canada). If the OP does go ahead with their idea, I'd recommend you put a clear notice on the cache page that cachers are not to stop their car on the bridge (unless that's allowed, of course).

[+lamoracke]

a bridge which has a pedestrian walkway has been ok in our area for virtual waypoints in multis or puzzles. One particular CO in our area has at least 2 if not 3 of those. Well, maybe he had 3 different waypoints from one multi now that I think about it, but have had at least 3 bridges that I either drove by or walked on looking for a visible waypoint. Two you had to walk, one technically you could see while driving, but you could walk as well. I drove on that one, no way in heck was I going to walk on that bridge, it was one of those over a mile floating bridges...nope.

[Fife Club]

Are you not allowed (legally) to stop on the bridge with your car?

I'm thinking about it really hard, and I can't think of a single bridge where it's legal to stop your car unless it's an emergency. Maybe things are different in other parts of the world, but it would be illegal and an extremely bad idea to stop on any bridge in this region (southwestern BC, Canada). If the OP does go ahead with their idea, I'd recommend you put a clear notice on the cache page that cachers are not to stop their car on the bridge (unless that's allowed, of course).

 

Correction: My mistake. I didn't see "your car" when I answered before. You're 100% allowed to walk across the bridge but no, you can't park your car on the bridge itself. You'd have to park on one end and walk across. That's something I would remind people in the cache description.

[+Crow-T-Robot]

It's good to know that what I was thinking of has been done before. I suppose I need to pay another visit to the bridge and check whether there are any unique characters already there. If not, I'd have to give some thought as to what else I could possibly ask somebody that they could only answer after visiting the center of the bridge.

 

But if I can't find anything there to use as a clue for stage 2, do you think one small magnet (with no container) would cause any problems with the Groundspeak rules?

 

My guess that if you place something, even a 1" magnetic strip, your reviewer will either not publish the cache or ask for proof of permission. A virtual stage, such as gathering numbers of something that already exists on the bridge, would probably pass without issue.

 

If I were you, I'd go for the virtual stage. If your intention is to get them to visit the center of the bridge and by doing so, getting the needed info to find the final, I'd much rather have it be a stage where I didn't have to place anything or risk whatever I placed being lost/stolen. It accomplishes the same thing without the risks.

[Keystone]

A virtual clue stage on a bridge should not present any problem apart from proving that the public is allowed to be walking there. (This is usually easy to show thanks to Google Street View, Bing Birds-Eye view, etc.) Exceptions, of course, for places like NYC as noted above.

 

The minute the owner introduces a physical element into the environment, the analysis changes. The reason is the risk of law enforcement incidents. The answer will depend greatly on the facts associated with the particular bridge, and the reviewer's working definition of "highway bridge," the value of permission, the nature of the physical object, etc.

[+EscapeFromFlatland]

I've found several caches placed on bridges.

In fact, a few thousand of us found one on the middle of a bridge over the Ohio River at Geowoodstock X this summer.