+Bamilbis Posted January 24, 2012 Share Posted January 24, 2012 You know... it would sure be great if besides the Report button, the forum also had a Like button. +1 I wonder if the execs at Google and Facebook would be happy or frustrated with this quote? Anyway, to the folks who don't like the 'sandbox' metaphor because it sets up a perceived Adult / Child relationship what metaphor would you use? I've always been of the belief that when ever possible a complaint should come with a solution. Quote Link to comment
+nthacker66 Posted January 24, 2012 Share Posted January 24, 2012 Sand wrote "Essentially, this is our back-yard, and we welcome you to play in it, but we want you to play by our rules and be nice to the other kids. If you don't, you may get a time-out, we may clean up after you, and in extreme cases you will be asked to leave the playground for good." And keep in mind Sandy, many of us here PAY for our accounts. So pieces of "the back yard" are ours. I.E. the collective fees keeps you employed. Quote Link to comment
+nthacker66 Posted January 24, 2012 Share Posted January 24, 2012 Update for the users here: You may have seen more moderation of our public forums in the past months/year for a few reasons. We had a forum software update about a year ago whereby we now have a forum report center which is far more user-friendly and clearly shows all pending reported threads and posts. This means that designated Mods in each forum section or Lackeys can easily respond to these reported threads and posts. They also receive email notifications about these reports. There are far more users in our forums than ever before. More user activity means more inappropriate behavior, more reports and more moderation. We have added to our moderator team to handle the increased need for moderation and in doing so are addressing best practices of 'consistency' and 'applying the forum guidelines'. We are not always getting it right, but we are working towards a goal of consistent moderation. What some users will consider 'heavy-handed' is either Groundspeak or a Moderator removing content that violates the forum guidelines. If something is moderated, it is because it has been reported and the moderator or Lackey has assessed that the content does violate one or more of the guidelines. Essentially, this is our back-yard, and we welcome you to play in it, but we want you to play by our rules and be nice to the other kids. If you don't, you may get a time-out, we may clean up after you, and in extreme cases you will be asked to leave the playground for good. I understand that the opening poster thinks that things are being made to mysteriously disappear, but this is not the case. This X-File can be closed. Is anyone else offended by the condescending posture of this post from Sandy? I know I am. Quote Link to comment
Pup Patrol Posted January 24, 2012 Share Posted January 24, 2012 Anyway, to the folks who don't like the 'sandbox' metaphor because it sets up a perceived Adult / Child relationship what metaphor would you use? I've always been of the belief that when ever possible a complaint should come with a solution. This is the one we've used, and I've seen on other forums: The forums are our house. You are invited as guests. This is not a place for free-for-alls between guests to take place. We have rules and we expect our guests to abide by them. It's the same as you would expect guests in your house to behave according to your rules. Civil and respectful discussions are encouraged. Personal sniping and insults will not be tolerated. The forums exist because the sharing of information is helpful to others who participate in this sport/hobby. The forums are not a "democracy". "Free speech" does not apply. Quote Link to comment
+nthacker66 Posted January 25, 2012 Share Posted January 25, 2012 Anyway, to the folks who don't like the 'sandbox' metaphor because it sets up a perceived Adult / Child relationship what metaphor would you use? I've always been of the belief that when ever possible a complaint should come with a solution. This is the one we've used, and I've seen on other forums: The forums are our house. You are invited as guests. This is not a place for free-for-alls between guests to take place. We have rules and we expect our guests to abide by them. It's the same as you would expect guests in your house to behave according to your rules. Civil and respectful discussions are encouraged. Personal sniping and insults will not be tolerated. The forums exist because the sharing of information is helpful to others who participate in this sport/hobby. The forums are not a "democracy". "Free speech" does not apply. Except Sandy did not offer a solution with ehr complaint. She even back peddled on what she "meant" which was worse. Whenever someone makes a snide and condescending statement like she made and then plays the "what I meant to say" or "what I should have said" it is too late at that point. What she doesn't get is there are a lot of people much older and much more experienced in life than she is that they find her tone offensive. Quote Link to comment
+Snoogans Posted January 25, 2012 Share Posted January 25, 2012 Anyway, to the folks who don't like the 'sandbox' metaphor because it sets up a perceived Adult / Child relationship what metaphor would you use? I've always been of the belief that when ever possible a complaint should come with a solution. This is the one we've used, and I've seen on other forums: The forums are our house. You are invited as guests. This is not a place for free-for-alls between guests to take place. We have rules and we expect our guests to abide by them. It's the same as you would expect guests in your house to behave according to your rules. Civil and respectful discussions are encouraged. Personal sniping and insults will not be tolerated. The forums exist because the sharing of information is helpful to others who participate in this sport/hobby. The forums are not a "democracy". "Free speech" does not apply. Except Sandy did not offer a solution with ehr complaint. She even back peddled on what she "meant" which was worse. Whenever someone makes a snide and condescending statement like she made and then plays the "what I meant to say" or "what I should have said" it is too late at that point. What she doesn't get is there are a lot of people much older and much more experienced in life than she is that they find her tone offensive. Don't speak for me. I don't find Sandy offensive. I find the back peddling unprofessional at the worst and an annoyance at best. There is a learning curve and she appears to be a little behind, but maybe her employer has faith that she can improve or why would they have made her their mouthpiece? I have no reason to second guess why she has been given the responsibility here. I just hope she can take some of what is being said here constructively. Quote Link to comment
+Snoogans Posted January 25, 2012 Share Posted January 25, 2012 I've always been of the belief that when ever possible a complaint should come with a solution. That is the expectation I have worked under for 24 years. It has become my personal ethic. Quote Link to comment
+ArcherDragoon Posted January 25, 2012 Share Posted January 25, 2012 Sand wrote "Essentially, this is our back-yard, and we welcome you to play in it, but we want you to play by our rules and be nice to the other kids. If you don't, you may get a time-out, we may clean up after you, and in extreme cases you will be asked to leave the playground for good." And keep in mind Sandy, many of us here PAY for our accounts. So pieces of "the back yard" are ours. I.E. the collective fees keeps you employed. Ok...that is the funniest post I have read in a long time...I don't agree...but still funny!!! Quote Link to comment
+Moose Mob Posted January 25, 2012 Share Posted January 25, 2012 Sand wrote "Essentially, this is our back-yard, and we welcome you to play in it, but we want you to play by our rules and be nice to the other kids. If you don't, you may get a time-out, we may clean up after you, and in extreme cases you will be asked to leave the playground for good." And keep in mind Sandy, many of us here PAY for our accounts. So pieces of "the back yard" are ours. I.E. the collective fees keeps you employed. I have seen Groundspeak give refunds to folks who have been banned from the site. (the entire site, not just the forums) Please note that this is not intended as a threat, but as an observation. Quote Link to comment
+Bamilbis Posted January 25, 2012 Share Posted January 25, 2012 Sand wrote "Essentially, this is our back-yard, and we welcome you to play in it, but we want you to play by our rules and be nice to the other kids. If you don't, you may get a time-out, we may clean up after you, and in extreme cases you will be asked to leave the playground for good." And keep in mind Sandy, many of us here PAY for our accounts. So pieces of "the back yard" are ours. I.E. the collective fees keeps you employed. I read your point about paying and linking that to partial ownership and must say I like it. I liked it so much I've begun incorporating it into my everyday life. At my gym I informed them I've been paying dues now for years so I'm taking my LifeCycle home now. Just had a rental car over the weekend so I kept the rear view mirror. I've been missing out on so much of what is mine...but that stops now! Thankyou for opening my eyes. [/sarcasim] Quote Link to comment
+Moose Mob Posted January 25, 2012 Share Posted January 25, 2012 (edited) Sand wrote "Essentially, this is our back-yard, and we welcome you to play in it, but we want you to play by our rules and be nice to the other kids. If you don't, you may get a time-out, we may clean up after you, and in extreme cases you will be asked to leave the playground for good." And keep in mind Sandy, many of us here PAY for our accounts. So pieces of "the back yard" are ours. I.E. the collective fees keeps you employed. I read your point about paying and linking that to partial ownership and must say I like it. I liked it so much I've begun incorporating it into my everyday life. At my gym I informed them I've been paying dues now for years so I'm taking my LifeCycle home now. Just had a rental car over the weekend so I kept the rear view mirror. I've been missing out on so much of what is mine...but that stops now! Thankyou for opening my eyes. [/sarcasim] Sir, I read your post and was quite offended. In the future, please use proper tagging... it should be </sarcasm>, not [/sarcasm]. Thank you. Edit to add smiley Edited January 25, 2012 by Moose Mob Quote Link to comment
+GeoBain Posted January 25, 2012 Author Share Posted January 25, 2012 I'm ok with the sandbox analogy. There are always super serious kids that refuse to play. They come to the playground to read, practice an instrument, or some other serious activity. They are also usually the first ones to complain to Mom or Dad when the other kids are tossing sand; especially if any of that sand lands on them. I come here to socialize AND play. And I readily admit that sometimes we bring the sand out of the sandbox and get it on the benches. But I'm much happier when Mom is there to remind me that the sand belongs in OT rather than finding out about it later and telling me that I can't go see my friends for a week. Quote Link to comment
4wheelin_fool Posted January 25, 2012 Share Posted January 25, 2012 Sand wrote "Essentially, this is our back-yard, and we welcome you to play in it, but we want you to play by our rules and be nice to the other kids. If you don't, you may get a time-out, we may clean up after you, and in extreme cases you will be asked to leave the playground for good." And keep in mind Sandy, many of us here PAY for our accounts. So pieces of "the back yard" are ours. I.E. the collective fees keeps you employed. I have seen Groundspeak give refunds to folks who have been banned from the site. (the entire site, not just the forums) Please note that this is not intended as a threat, but as an observation. The Premium Member forums are HERE. However, the posts are not guaranteed to be of higher quality, better swag, nor maintained. Quote Link to comment
+Totem Clan Posted January 25, 2012 Share Posted January 25, 2012 MOMMY!!!! GeoBain poured sand in my scientific caculator again! Quote Link to comment
+J the Goat Posted January 25, 2012 Share Posted January 25, 2012 I'm ok with the sandbox analogy. There are always super serious kids that refuse to play. They come to the playground to read, practice an instrument, or some other serious activity. They are also usually the first ones to complain to Mom or Dad when the other kids are tossing sand; especially if any of that sand lands on them. I come here to socialize AND play. And I readily admit that sometimes we bring the sand out of the sandbox and get it on the benches. But I'm much happier when Mom is there to remind me that the sand belongs in OT rather than finding out about it later and telling me that I can't go see my friends for a week. I'm going to come out of my slumber for this one. I just spent the last 45 minutes or so reading and re-reading the posts here, and it's quite an interesting topic. Honestly, if there were more like this I'd probably be around the forums a bit more often than I have. With that being said, let me say a few more things... The sandbox analogy: I don't like it. If that's how I'm perceived, then that's how I'll start acting. Be aware though, as a child in a sandbox, the rules need to be very clear and concise so I know what they are beings that I'm a child. Children don't do well with open ended and ambiguous. The disappearing of posts: Haven't seen it, refer to the frequency with which I'm here. If it's happening the way Geobain says it is (and I have no reason not to believe it isn't) then I don't like it. We're adults here folks, and that means a few things. Thing #1: If you have a problem with what I've said, come to me and tell me you have a problem with it. I may not have known it was forum inappropriate, or you may have misinterpreted it. This goes for mods and fellow posters. Thing #2: Don't just hit the report button because it's there. Please see thing #1 for an explanation. Thing #3: I do feel that because I pay for membeship here, albeit a small amount, I'm entitled (Oh no, he said it!) to have a little bit more of an explanation regarding changes to what's happening to the site than has been offered so far. Lastly: I'm a huge proponent of the whole "if you don't like it, change the channel" idea. If you're one of those folks among us who gets easily offended, that's fine but there's nothing that says you have to read the posts that anyone else writes. Not everything is inappropriate, please stop treating the world as if that's the case. That doesn't mean I don't think that there should be rules addressing common courtesy, we all know what that means (see the part about being adults). Thank you for the good topic that led to good discussion Geobain. Hopefully <remainder of this post has been removed by the post-er as he figured one of the mods might do it for him otherwise> :laughing: Quote Link to comment
+G & C Posted January 25, 2012 Share Posted January 25, 2012 I don't have much interaction with moderators, and I very much doubt that very many of us do. I tend to think that moderator intervention happens with most very seldom, and a few are the main cause of the moderators daily problems. As a result, I would hope that when questions start rolling out about their behavior, such as threads like these, it would get paid attention to by somebody. My opinion is that reaction to customer complaints tells a lot about a business and what it thinks of its clientele. Quote Link to comment
+GeoBain Posted January 25, 2012 Author Share Posted January 25, 2012 MOMMY!!!! GeoBain poured sand in my scientific caculator again! And you still won't take a hint. Just kidding. Quote Link to comment
+Totem Clan Posted January 25, 2012 Share Posted January 25, 2012 (edited) MOMMY!!!! GeoBain poured sand in my scientific caculator again! And you still won't take a hint. Just kidding. {throws a dirt clod at GeoBain} But... He started it!!!! Does that sound familar? Edited January 25, 2012 by Totem Clan Quote Link to comment
+Totem Clan Posted January 25, 2012 Share Posted January 25, 2012 I have next to contact with Mods so I'm not going to wiegh on either side but I will say this. Show a little respect and don't let the other 'troll' egg you on. That will stop a lot of the problems. Ane that is not aimed at anyone. Just some advise that has worked for me. (Now back to just listening.) Quote Link to comment
+A & J Tooling Posted January 25, 2012 Share Posted January 25, 2012 Want to be treated like an adult? Then start acting like one. Simple really. Now, carry on ladies and gentlemen. Quote Link to comment
+GeoBain Posted January 25, 2012 Author Share Posted January 25, 2012 Thing #1: If you have a problem with what I've said, come to me and tell me you have a problem with it. I may not have known it was forum inappropriate, or you may have misinterpreted it. This goes for mods and fellow posters. I cannot agree with this more. Often things are posted in good faith that are then misinterpreted. No harm was meant and if you just take the time to pm someone, you can usually settle these issues without the need for moderators to ever get involved. It's always better to go to the source of the problem before involving a third party. Quote Link to comment
+GeoBain Posted January 27, 2012 Author Share Posted January 27, 2012 I just had a thread disappear in OT. I have received no explanation why it disappeared. I cannot think of any reason it would be deleted. I have a pm to the moderator currently patrolling OT to inquire. But this is the kind of stuff I'm talking about. Quote Link to comment
+dfx Posted January 27, 2012 Share Posted January 27, 2012 I just had a thread disappear in OT. I have received no explanation why it disappeared. I cannot think of any reason it would be deleted. I'm sure that was because it was off topic. :P Quote Link to comment
+t4e Posted January 27, 2012 Share Posted January 27, 2012 Anyway, to the folks who don't like the 'sandbox' metaphor because it sets up a perceived Adult / Child relationship what metaphor would you use? I've always been of the belief that when ever possible a complaint should come with a solution. children are not the only ones using a sandbox, there's also some pets that pee in a sandbox Anyway, to the folks who don't like the 'sandbox' metaphor because it sets up a perceived Adult / Child relationship what metaphor would you use? I've always been of the belief that when ever possible a complaint should come with a solution. This is the one we've used, and I've seen on other forums: The forums are our house. You are invited as guests. This is not a place for free-for-alls between guests to take place. We have rules and we expect our guests to abide by them. It's the same as you would expect guests in your house to behave according to your rules. Civil and respectful discussions are encouraged. Personal sniping and insults will not be tolerated. The forums exist because the sharing of information is helpful to others who participate in this sport/hobby. The forums are not a "democracy". "Free speech" does not apply. Except Sandy did not offer a solution with ehr complaint. She even back peddled on what she "meant" which was worse. Whenever someone makes a snide and condescending statement like she made and then plays the "what I meant to say" or "what I should have said" it is too late at that point. What she doesn't get is there are a lot of people much older and much more experienced in life than she is that they find her tone offensive. Don't speak for me. I don't find Sandy offensive. I find the back peddling unprofessional at the worst and an annoyance at best. There is a learning curve and she appears to be a little behind, but maybe her employer has faith that she can improve or why would they have made her their mouthpiece? I have no reason to second guess why she has been given the responsibility here. I just hope she can take some of what is being said here constructively. how many years would you consider is fair to allow someone to complete a learning curve? i personally don't think its got anything to do with learning curve Quote Link to comment
+GeoBain Posted January 27, 2012 Author Share Posted January 27, 2012 I just had a thread disappear in OT. I have received no explanation why it disappeared. I cannot think of any reason it would be deleted. I'm sure that was because it was off topic. :P At least the mod answered my pm even if the reply was another example of overly sensitive readers and a misapplication of the guidelines. Quote Link to comment
+t4e Posted January 27, 2012 Share Posted January 27, 2012 I just had a thread disappear in OT. I have received no explanation why it disappeared. I cannot think of any reason it would be deleted. I'm sure that was because it was off topic. :P At least the mod answered my pm even if the reply was another example of overly sensitive readers and a misapplication of the guidelines. i was very tempted to tell you what the outcome will be, speaking from experience here Quote Link to comment
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