Geocaching for dummies... this might be a stupid question...

[Claudia & Christian]

Hi all of you!

 

I am rather new at geocaching and have - up to now - only searched for traditional caches. Now as you probably know this can get a bit boring after a while so yesterday we set off to search our first multi-cache.

 

We found the first position. From there, we should have calculated the next coordinates for the next cache, but we both didn't know how to do that. Maybe we should have listened in maths some years ago... but now - well,... too late

 

Maybe someone here could explain to us how to calculate coordinates?!

 

Thanks lots in advance,

 

C & C

[+webscouter.]

What cache were you searching?

 

Most Multicaches have a tag or some other way to give the second coordinates at the first stage.

 

Some of them use math or projection to find the second location.

 

If you tell us the cache code we might be able to help you better.

[+Chief301]

Is it a puzzle cache, where you have to figure out a puzzle or clue to get the next set of coordinates, or is it a simple multi where each stage gives you the coordinates to the next stage?

 

Me, I don't care for puzzles too much. Seems like most of the time you have to almost read the CO's mind to guess where he's going with the clues.

 

Plus, I suck at math...

[Narcosynthesis]

Without knowing the cache in particular it is impossible to say for sure...

 

multi caches normally either give you a list of waypoints for you to go to, with a question at each to give you a number. You are then given half finished co-ordinates which you can substitute the answers into to get the location for the final. An alternative would be one where you have the co-ordinates for the first stage, which has the co-ordinates for the next stage inside it and so on.

 

If you are speaking about puzzle caches, they are a puzzle... the actual co-ordinates are fake, with the real co-ordinates hidden in a puzzle on the cache page.

[CACAHUETES]

What a stupid question

[+Sol seaker]

What a stupid question

 

What a stupid reply.

 

To the thread owner, please ignore some of our younger members. I guess he was trying to be funny considering the title of this thread.

 

We need to know which multi it is in order to help you on this one.

Each one is different. The cache page should tell you how to figure out the coordinates. Some multis are easier than others, so I suggest that you find a multi that is pretty clear about how to find the next stage, and then work up to harder ones from there.

 

Puzzle caches are the same way. Start with the easier ones, and then work your way up from there.

[CACAHUETES]

What a stupid question

 

What a stupid reply.

 

To the thread owner, please ignore some of our younger members. I guess he was trying to be funny considering the title of this thread.

 

 

Geez. I might be young but I at least I have a sense of humour old soul. Enjoy my 'stupid reply', cos I got plenty more comin'. Enjoy.

[+Gitchee-Gummee]

What a stupid question

 

What a stupid reply.

 

To the thread owner, please ignore some of our younger members. I guess he was trying to be funny considering the title of this thread.

 

 

Geez. I might be young but I at least I have a sense of humour old soul. Enjoy my 'stupid reply', cos I got plenty more comin'. Enjoy.

One thing to keep in mind... this is the "Getting Started" forum. People are given some slack and allowed to ask most any (pertinent) question. They ask because they don't know, now just what makes that a stupid question?

 

EDIT: A stupid typo.

Edited October 23, 2011 by Gitchee-Gummee

[+Sapience Trek]

What a stupid question

 

What a stupid reply.

 

To the thread owner, please ignore some of our younger members. I guess he was trying to be funny considering the title of this thread.

 

 

Geez. I might be young but I at least I have a sense of humour old soul. Enjoy my 'stupid reply', cos I got plenty more comin'. Enjoy.

 

Please keeps posts on topic and respectful of other members. Or you will not have plenty more comin'.

[jholly]

What a stupid question

 

What a stupid reply.

 

To the thread owner, please ignore some of our younger members. I guess he was trying to be funny considering the title of this thread.

 

 

Geez. I might be young but I at least I have a sense of humour old soul. Enjoy my 'stupid reply', cos I got plenty more comin'. Enjoy.

I would like to say a few things, but an all expense paid vacation curtesy of our favorite moderator is just not worth it. I will say that if one of my children spoke to me in that manner they would have lots of time to contemplate their manners. And you do not have a sense of humor. It would be nice if you had a sense of maturity.

[+popokiiti]

What a stupid question

 

No questions are ever stupid - not asking is stupid. I know you used the winky face to show you were joking, but it still came across a bit harsh in this forum Caca.

 

To Claudis and Christian - please give us the GC number and we'll try and help!

[+briansnat]

Lets get this back on track now and see if we can help the OP.

[+Catydid]

We have only recently started doing multi-caches, so I will give you a few ideas of what we have found. Sometimes, at the original coordinates we have found a small cache with the new co-ords in it. Sometimes, we found an object with the new co-ords on it. A few times, we found a pipe or object we had to look through to find the next location. One nifty cache had different "chores" we had to perform to find the new locations. Look at the hints, if there are any, as you may find just a number at the original spot that is put into the coordinates to give you new ones. Or you may have to answer questions and put these numbers into given coordinates with letters, such as ABC or DEF, etc. Often, there may be a plaque to read to get the new numbers. Each one is slightly different and sometimes you really have to think outside the box.

[+MarliedogUK]

A little research tells me which cache you are trying to solve.

I shall use the instructions from the cache page, but wont detail here which cache it is nor the code.

The explination will use false data, so the actual puzzle is not solved here, you will need to go out to it to do it properly.

On the first caches listing, there are instructions on how to find the next coordinates.

Now the formula looks algebraic, but it really is easy to do once you have done it a couple of times.

So, lets detail how to decipher it :

 

I think the cache you are doing has the something like the following:

 

On the first stage you'll find a ***** with a **** on it.

Take the following letters from the **** and use the position in the alphabet to calculate the coordinates of the final:

 

5th letter = A

6th letter = B

7th letter = C

8th letter = D

9th letter = E

Final: N 49° 52.((A + E) x D + A)

E 008° 19.((B + C) x D + A)

 

You already have the final coordinates, but you will notice that instead of numbers in some places, you have letters. What you have to do is substitute the letters for numbers which can be worked out by answering the questions or taking the information requested.

 

You have been told that there is a something at the coordinates for the first cache. Lets assume that the thing you are looking for says:

 

I love geocaching

 

So first item on the agenda, take the 5,6,7,8 and 9th letter.

 

E, G, E, O, C.

 

So the initial instructions would allow you to determine the first requirement and give you this:

 

5th letter = A becomes E = A

6th letter = B becomes G = B

7th letter = C becomes E = C

8th letter = D becomes O = D

9th letter = E becomes C = E

 

Next, take the letters you just worked out and get their positions in the alphabet. I.E

 

A=1, B=2, C=3 etc, you get

 

5, 7, 5, 15, 3.

 

So substitute the letters just taken for numbers in your chart:

 

E = A becomes 5 = A

G = B becomes 7 = B

E = C becomes 5 = C

O = D becomes 15 = D

C = E becomes 3 = E

 

Next look at the coordinates and substitute the letters for the numbers they refer to:

 

N 49° 52.((A + E) x D + A) E 008° 19.((B + C) x D + A)

becomes

N 49° 52.((5 + 3) x 15 + 5) E 008° 19.((7 + 5) x 15 + 5)

 

Now that is still not looking like a usable coordinate, but you see some simple maths in brackets.

 

Do that maths and you should have your final coordinates. There are 6 equations there.

 

Lets deal with just the N section first.

 

Inner bracketed sums should be done first, to give you an answer to use in the next tier of brackets, so :

 

N 49° 52.(( 5 + 3 ) x 15 + 5)

becomes

N 49° 52.( 8 x (15 + 5)

we can now do the next sum 15+5

N 49° 52.(8 x 20)

Doing the sum gives us:

N 49° 52.160

 

Now the E section:

 

E 008° 19.((7 + 5) x 15 + 5)

becomes

E 008° 19.( 12 x (15 + 5)

then the outer sum:

E 008° 19.( 12 x 20)

which becomes

E 008° 19.240

 

Which would give you a final coordinate of :

 

N 49° 52.160 E 008° 19.240

 

Don’t use those though, they are for explanation purposes only.

Edited October 25, 2011 by MarliedogUK

[+NYPaddleCacher]

A little research tells me which cache you are trying to solve.

I shall use the instructions from the cache page, but wont detail here which cache it is nor the code.

The explination will use false data, so the actual puzzle is not solved here, you will need to go out to it to do it properly.

On the first caches listing, there are instructions on how to find the next coordinates.

Now the formula looks algebraic, but it really is easy to do once you have done it a couple of times.

So, lets detail how to decipher it :

 

I think the cache you are doing has the something like the following:

 

On the first stage you'll find a ***** with a **** on it.

Take the following letters from the **** and use the position in the alphabet to calculate the coordinates of the final:

 

...

 

An excellent response for what is a fairly common mechanism for deriving a set of coordinates in a multi-cache.

 

From what I have seen multi-caches often boil down to three types:

 

The first is when a stage has a physical container (sometimes, with an especially lenient definition of container) that has the fully written out coordinates for the subsequent stage).

 

The next is one where a set of coordinates takes you someplace where you'll find numbers, letters, or some other bits of information can can be plugged into a simple formula. In some cases it's as simple as a simple substitution of a digit for letters in a coordinate format such as N42 23.ABC W076 30.DEF. Someone times the formulas can get a bit complex, though in my opinion, if the formula requires anytime more than basic arithmatic it should probably be submitted as a mystery cache.

 

The third type, although somewhat similar to the second is an offset multi. In this case, you're given a set of coordinates, then you need to add or subtract a number (derived via a simple math problem) to the set of coordinates. For example, count the number of windows you see on the building across the road, multiply it by the last digit of the address of the building and add it to the north coordinate. As a variation, sometime you're giving a set of coordinates than asked to project a waypoint a certain distance and bearing to get the coordinates for the next stage.

[+Gitchee-Gummee]

A little research tells... <snip>

 

An excellent response for what is a fairly common mechanism for deriving a set of coordinates in a multi-cache.

<snip>

+1 My thoughts exactly. Looks to be a full lesson plan.

Edited October 26, 2011 by Gitchee-Gummee

[+retiredSailor]

I would like to start by saying how great it was of MarliedogUK to take to the time to discuss how multi-caches work, at least for the one in question. Great tutorial!!

 

I would like to discuss one point though. Based on the original equation posted:

N 49° 52.((A + E) x D + A) E 008° 19.((B + C) x D + A)

...

 

I think the solution should be a little different. The post showed:

 

N 49° 52.(( 5 + 3 ) x 15 + 5)

becomes

N 49° 52.( 8 x (15 + 5)

we can now do the next sum 15+5

N 49° 52.(8 x 20)

Doing the sum gives us:

N 49° 52.160

 

But based on the rules of multiplication, I think it should look more like the following:

N 49° 52.(( 5 + 3 ) x 15 + 5)

becomes

N 49° 52.(( 8 x 15)+ 5)

we can now do the next multiplication 8 x 15

N 49° 52.(120 + 5)

Doing the sum gives us:

N 49° 52.125

 

Multiplication gets done before addition, unless there are parenthesis which override the precedence order. In the case of: N 49° 52.((A + E) x D + A), there isn't.

 

I emailed MarliedogUK before posting this, so I am not trying to publicly correct anyone, just trying to discuss if the answer should be a different result.

 

retiredSailor

[+MarliedogUK]

Indeed, just posting to support retiredSailor here.

 

They way I posted was the way I would have read the equation, but if I am wrong, I do not want to be sending people off tangent.

 

Indeed,after re reading the way I put it, after retiredSailor's explaination to me, my way would have been applicable if the equation looked like this :

 

N 49° 52.((A + E) x (D + A)) E 008° 19.((B + C) x (D + A))

 

Note the additional brackets.

 

It was a few years since I did maths study, so I am happy to be corrected, so others don't get lost.

 

MarliedogUK.

Edited October 27, 2011 by MarliedogUK