FTF before a cache is published ?

[+spdrbob]

On the way to work the other day I got notification of a new cache published , it was right near me so I figured I'd be late to work just to get my FTF. I got there and found the cache no issue but the log was already signed 4 days previously. There was no log on the site when I posted mine but a few days later the person that signed the log posted and it went before mine.

 

Is this normal - how can you be a FTF before it's published ?

 

http://coord.info/GC34B5M

[GOF and Bacall]

Is it Thursday already?

 

There are lots of ways it could happen. The CO may have given them the coordinates before the listing was published. It may have been listed on another site first. I have actually found caches in the wild that had yet to be published. I swear, one of these days I'm gonna put the coordinates to a new cache on a bumper sticker before I list it at GC.com.

[+lamoracke]

if someone found it by accident in advance, that is the most scrupulous method. If you found a cache and figure it was beta tested or something in advance and knew for sure, just call yourself FTF after publication and move on, or do not call it a FTF. Not worth getting too riled up about FTFs as surely there are others who will get riled up without your help.

 

actually looking at the cache listing, sounds like a beta tester to me and a newbie. If its a beta tester, the common rule of thumb is to wait til the FTFer finds it, then log it in as such, a beta test find. A beta test find is someone who was with the CO when it was hidden. They already signed it, which is fine, but its usually not considered a nice idea to make friends by calling yourself a FTF in this circumstance.

Edited September 29, 2011 by lamoracke

[TorgtheViking]

Goes to show that FTF can be a bogus stat. But than again what is 'out of bounds' when padding the numbers. What are the rules???? Grab the pitchforks lets march on Groundspeak HQ for answers.

[+GeoBain]

I heard that reviewers give their friends coordinates so they can get FTF before anyone else.

 

 

(Not really. But I have heard accusations thrown around about a side game that is supposed to be fun.)

[+Bear and Ragged]

I heard that reviewers give their friends coordinates so they can get FTF before anyone else.

 

(Not really. But I have heard accusations thrown around about a side game that is supposed to be fun.)

I thought the reviewers had sock puppet accounts, purely for the purpose of going after FTF's, especially of those very hard multi's and puzzle's...

 

[knowschad]

I don't know if this has been fixed or not (its been several years since I've heard of it) but at least at one time, a coin or travel bug could be dropped into an unpublished cache by the cache owner. Anybody having a watch on that trackable would get a notification that informed them of the new hide. Or something like that.

 

But much more commonly, it would be a friend of the cache owner testing the coords and camo. I find myself siding squarely with the "meh!" crowd on this one.

[Mr.Yuck]

I don't know if this has been fixed or not (its been several years since I've heard of it) but at least at one time, a coin or travel bug could be dropped into an unpublished cache by the cache owner. Anybody having a watch on that trackable would get a notification that informed them of the new hide. Or something like that.

 

But much more commonly, it would be a friend of the cache owner testing the coords and camo. I find myself siding squarely with the "meh!" crowd on this one.

 

As always, I was a little nosey. Hidden by a 3 hide account, the FTF'er was a 6 find account. Looks like a rather clear case of giving the coordinates to your homeboy before publishing. And in the case the homeboy makes no apologies for his given the coordinates before anyone else "FTF". Which of course means nothing, seeing as being FTF means nothing and there are no rules.

[+junglehair]

I don't know if this has been fixed or not (its been several years since I've heard of it) but at least at one time, a coin or travel bug could be dropped into an unpublished cache by the cache owner. Anybody having a watch on that trackable would get a notification that informed them of the new hide. Or something like that.

 

I do believe that loophole has been fixed. It wasn't quite as easy as giving out the coords for the new cache though, it just said which direction and distance the TB moved. You had to do your own projection to figure out where the new cache likely was. Not that I ever did that Actually, FTFs have never been that important to me, so while I might have tried to deduce where a new cache was that way, I don't think I ever went out to actually try searching for one.

 

As others have mentioned, it was likely a friend of the Cache Owner's who checked the coords for them. No problem with that. I had a friend do that for me once when the Reviewer told me my cache was appearing in the middle of a farmer's field. She logged in as First to Pre-Find the cache. Turns out Google Maps was wrong in this case and my coords were perfect

 

You can still consider yourself the FTF of the cache after publication. There's no official stats or rules for FTF anyway.

[+Bear and Ragged]

I don't know if this has been fixed or not (its been several years since I've heard of it) but at least at one time, a coin or travel bug could be dropped into an unpublished cache by the cache owner. Anybody having a watch on that trackable would get a notification that informed them of the new hide. Or something like that.

 

But much more commonly, it would be a friend of the cache owner testing the coords and camo. I find myself siding squarely with the "meh!" crowd on this one.

Not sure since the last update, but a trackable would show the distance and direction it had traveled... Have two or more trackables with distance and direction, nice to triangulate to the new cache!

 

I had a coin on watch list, and had notification when the cacher dropped it in the as yet unpublished cache. Knowing the distance and direction, and where the cacher was likely to hide the cache... And the name of the cache (placed near a river, so had the rivers name in the cache name!)

 

Just a little too far to go.

[+Don_J]

Since absolutely no one but me is tracking my FTFs, I would just mark it in my database, and move on.

[Pup Patrol]

I don't know if this has been fixed or not (its been several years since I've heard of it) but at least at one time, a coin or travel bug could be dropped into an unpublished cache by the cache owner. Anybody having a watch on that trackable would get a notification that informed them of the new hide. Or something like that.

 

But much more commonly, it would be a friend of the cache owner testing the coords and camo. I find myself siding squarely with the "meh!" crowd on this one.

 

As always, I was a little nosey. Hidden by a 3 hide account, the FTF'er was a 6 find account. Looks like a rather clear case of giving the coordinates to your homeboy before publishing. And in the case the homeboy makes no apologies for his given the coordinates before anyone else "FTF". Which of course means nothing, seeing as being FTF means nothing and there are no rules.

 

And let's not forget the 2,300+ finder who logged the cache as "found it" twice.

 

Those newbies, eh?

 

[+Sol seaker]

The signature says it all...

 

(until I change it of course)

[+BBWolf+3Pigs]

Is it Thursday already?

 

There are lots of ways it could happen. The CO may have given them the coordinates before the listing was published. It may have been listed on another site first. I have actually found caches in the wild that had yet to be published. I swear, one of these days I'm gonna put the coordinates to a new cache on a bumper sticker before I list it at GC.com.

 

Or this way.

[+baloo&bd]

It is not uncommon for a CO to give the coords to friends while waiting for it to be published. We do it often. First to find is a binary state, either you are or you are not. When or where it is published is of no consequence, so often it will be found before the date it is published. A few years back Magellan put out several caches and for a few weeks or months they were only published on their site before they were published here. GCPHHV is one example.

[+GeoBain]

The signature says it all...

 

(until I change it of course)

 

What does the cat have to do with FTF?

[+Hypnopaedia]

There was a cache recently, placed by a Lackey, which was published late at night about 15 miles away. Zipped down to grab it and saw at least 10 names on it from days earlier all marked FTF. There was a CITO there a few days earlier and all of them had signed the cache to claim Co-FTF. I wasn't the first person to sign the log after publish so I didn't say anything, but I'd be lying if I said that it wouldn't have bothered me just a little if I had been a little earlier.

[+GeoReapers]

The signature says it all...

 

(until I change it of course)

+1

 

We go for FTF's because we enjoy them, but there is a local cacher who usually gets them. Fine, we are 2tf. Really, it just doesn't matter that much-a find is a find is a find.

[+spdrbob]

Thanks All , I agree , for me Caching is more about the places and the find then being FTF. I know it's not an official part of the game but there is still something pretty cool about being the first one to find a cache regardless.

 

Being pretty new myself I just thought it was odd that the 'Site' would allow you to post a log that was before the publishing of the cache. I guess if GS wanted to prohibit this it would be easy to do and already done.

[+spdrbob]

The signature says it all...

 

(until I change it of course)

 

I'm definitely not bickering or that bothered by it - it was just a question really out of interest....

[+mTn_biKer65]

I was checking a little park for a possible cache hiding spot and found a cache. I initially assumed it either hadn't been listed yet or was long archived. A couple other options I didn't think of at the time was the final for a multi or a puzzle cache. As it turns out it was the final for a multi that started on the other side of town that involved diving down to get a redirect. I'd actually put the multi on my ignore list because I didn't have the equipment or the skills to dive for a redirect. I removed the multi from my ignore list and logged the find. If it had been a new unpublished cache I would've signed it and logged the FTF as well since that's what I was.

 

Probably with mentioning that the multi has been found 7 times since it was placed in 2006 and the last 3 finds were accidental. 2 were looking for hiding spots (it's a small park) and 1 found the cache lying on the ground.

[+timberdoodlehunter1]

All the above ways are possible. We have also seen where at an event the person hosting the event will have 3 unpublished caches and the event host gives the coords out at the raffle prize drawing and they will also see if there are any new cachers at the event and the host will hold a mini raffle for just the newbies so one of them can go find the unpublished cache and claim a ftf. The event host then tells the winners they have 3 days to go find the caches before the caches are published.

This has become a tradition at the event and everyone seems to like the idea.

 

We have also been to the Geocacher Enough Road Rally in Roscommin Mi. The hosts will print a newspaper up with about 30 caches, all unpublished and when the event starts everyone gets a newspaper and hand enters all the caches in. Everyone at the event has a chance to get a few ftf. Usually at the end of the weekend the caches are all published.

[Mr.Yuck]

I don't know if this has been fixed or not (its been several years since I've heard of it) but at least at one time, a coin or travel bug could be dropped into an unpublished cache by the cache owner. Anybody having a watch on that trackable would get a notification that informed them of the new hide. Or something like that.

 

But much more commonly, it would be a friend of the cache owner testing the coords and camo. I find myself siding squarely with the "meh!" crowd on this one.

 

As always, I was a little nosey. Hidden by a 3 hide account, the FTF'er was a 6 find account. Looks like a rather clear case of giving the coordinates to your homeboy before publishing. And in the case the homeboy makes no apologies for his given the coordinates before anyone else "FTF". Which of course means nothing, seeing as being FTF means nothing and there are no rules.

 

And let's not forget the 2,300+ finder who logged the cache as "found it" twice.

 

Those newbies, eh?

 

 

Ironically enough, a 10,000+ finder double logged one of my caches yesterday. They found it themselves. Boy, I just read my quoted post above again, and it's totally incoherent. Never mind.

[4wheelin_fool]

On the way to work the other day I got notification of a new cache published , it was right near me so I figured I'd be late to work just to get my FTF. I got there and found the cache no issue but the log was already signed 4 days previously. There was no log on the site when I posted mine but a few days later the person that signed the log posted and it went before mine.

 

Is this normal - how can you be a FTF before it's published ?

 

http://coord.info/GC34B5M

There is absolutely nothing wrong with being a FTF before publishing. On the other hand if they are celebrating it, it's a little cheesy.

[The_Hypnotoad]

I think it's funny how so many people say you can play however you want and treat the Groundspeak rules more like guidelines.

 

When it comes to FTF, watch out. Don't get caught between a geocacher and their FTF.