Help Utah Sheriffs Office understand Geocaching

[+Putnams]

Just heard an announcement that Davis County in Utah will be proposing to make Geocaching illegal due to recent events.

Was wondering if you guys could help them out with ideas to help our community keep Geocaching around.

 

https://www.facebook.com/DavisCountySheriffsOffice

 

http://www.standard.net/topics/davis-county-sheriffs-office/2011/06/28/geocache-item-mistaken-bomb-syracuse

[knowschad]

Just heard an announcement that Davis County in Utah will be proposing to make Geocaching illegal due to recent events.

Was wondering if you guys could help them out with ideas to help our community keep Geocaching around.

 

https://www.facebook...ySheriffsOffice

 

http://www.standard....n-bomb-syracuse

 

Well, at least you would still have your JEEKS

[knowschad]

I certainly don't see anything on the Facebook page or in the article that would indicate any intention to try banning Geocaching.

 

One thing you could point out to them is that the Police Dept can get a free Premium Membership from Groundspeak. The concept of having registered numbers on each and every Geocache (as suggested on the Facebook page) would be unwieldly and unneccessary (who is going to maintain the database?) when they already have everything they need right here, aside from perhaps contact information for the cache hiders.

[+StarBrand]

Even if they were thinking about, (correct me if I am wrong), the county has jurisdiction over only its own county lands and not over private, state, federal and possibly municipal lands. Still leaves a lot of area for Geocaching.

 

...so keep them informed of new caches in the county - somebody generate a map and keep it updated for them.

[jholly]

Even if they were thinking about, (correct me if I am wrong), the county has jurisdiction over only its own county lands and not over private, state, federal and possibly municipal lands. Still leaves a lot of area for Geocaching.

 

...so keep them informed of new caches in the county - somebody generate a map and keep it updated for them.

They probably could get an ordinance passed banning geocaching. A lot of areas have ordinances banning fireworks and those seem to be enforced. I don't see why they could not do this to geocaching. Warning: I did not sleep in a Holiday Express last night.

[KenW.]

I work for that Sheriff's office. There hasn't been that kind of talk at all. Don't go overboard.

 

People just need to use a little sense when placing a cache. Don't hide one behind a jail or other law enforcement sensitive area. Hide it well enough in public places that a non-cacher isn't going to get suspicious. Consider labeling it clearly as a cache.

 

As far as advising law enforcement of all caches; That's not going to work. There are THOUSANDS in the County. Who is going to pay for someone to catalog all of the sites for each jurisdiction? We need to educate our patrolmen on how to investigate a suspicious container (using this website for one resource)so the bomb squad doesn't detonate it. Detonating / dismanteling even an item that turns out to be innocent is hazardous and costly.

[+Ecylram]

I certainly don't see anything on the Facebook page or in the article that would indicate any intention to try banning Geocaching.

 

 

Agreed. If anything, the Sheriff's department response was better than you'd expect considering the circumstances.

[BlueRajah]

I work for that Sheriff's office. There hasn't been that kind of talk at all. Don't go overboard.

 

People just need to use a little sense when placing a cache. Don't hide one behind a jail or other law enforcement sensitive area. Hide it well enough in public places that a non-cacher isn't going to get suspicious. Consider labeling it clearly as a cache.

 

As far as advising law enforcement of all caches; That's not going to work. There are THOUSANDS in the County. Who is going to pay for someone to catalog all of the sites for each jurisdiction? We need to educate our patrolmen on how to investigate a suspicious container (using this website for one resource)so the bomb squad doesn't detonate it. Detonating / dismanteling even an item that turns out to be innocent is hazardous and costly.

 

Ken Feel free to contact me. I review for Utah. If the Police Department wants we can get a free account (or upgrade to a free account), we can get in contact with Groundspeak and get it set up.

 

In Utah county there was an event with the bomb squad last year. It was enlightening for those that were there, on both sides. Seeing equipment and showing others what each side does, and sharing concerns.

 

Perhaps something like that would be helpful up there as well.

 

It appears the cache in question has been there for about five years. I am not certain where the cache in question was located only a general idea, and the camo ammo can matches a description of one.

Edited June 28, 2011 by BlueRajah

[+StarBrand]

I work for that Sheriff's office. There hasn't been that kind of talk at all. Don't go overboard.

 

People just need to use a little sense when placing a cache. Don't hide one behind a jail or other law enforcement sensitive area. Hide it well enough in public places that a non-cacher isn't going to get suspicious. Consider labeling it clearly as a cache.

 

As far as advising law enforcement of all caches; That's not going to work. There are THOUSANDS in the County. Who is going to pay for someone to catalog all of the sites for each jurisdiction? We need to educate our patrolmen on how to investigate a suspicious container (using this website for one resource)so the bomb squad doesn't detonate it. Detonating / dismanteling even an item that turns out to be innocent is hazardous and costly.

Very cool - most of us want to work with LEOs to prevent issues from arising. Thanks for responding to this thread!! Hope a fully coordinated responsible response can be formulated to future incidents.

[knowschad]

I work for that Sheriff's office. There hasn't been that kind of talk at all. Don't go overboard.

 

People just need to use a little sense when placing a cache. Don't hide one behind a jail or other law enforcement sensitive area. Hide it well enough in public places that a non-cacher isn't going to get suspicious. Consider labeling it clearly as a cache.

 

As far as advising law enforcement of all caches; That's not going to work. There are THOUSANDS in the County. Who is going to pay for someone to catalog all of the sites for each jurisdiction? We need to educate our patrolmen on how to investigate a suspicious container (using this website for one resource)so the bomb squad doesn't detonate it. Detonating / dismanteling even an item that turns out to be innocent is hazardous and costly.

 

Ken Feel free to contact me. I review for Utah. If the Police Department wants we can get a free account (or upgrade to a free account), we can get in contact with Groundspeak and get it set up.

 

In Utah county there was an event with the bomb squad last year. It was enlightening for those that were there, on both sides. Seeing equipment and showing others what each side does, and sharing concerns.

 

Perhaps something like that would be helpful up there as well.

 

It appears the cache in question has been there for about five years. I am not certain where the cache in question was located only a general idea, and the camo ammo can matches a description of one.

 

Excellent reply to an excellent response!

[KenW.]

knowschad, e-mail sent with my contact information.

[knowschad]

knowschad, e-mail sent with my contact information.

 

I think you meant, BlueRajah, but if you sent it to me, I will forward it to him.

[BlueRajah]

knowschad, e-mail sent with my contact information.

 

I think you meant, BlueRajah, but if you sent it to me, I will forward it to him.

 

I got it..

[Keystone]

I am moving this thread from the Geocaching Topics forum to the West and Southwest forum.

[knowschad]

Just because the thread has "Utah" in the subject, this isn't just a West and Southwest issue. We all need to be aware of and concerned about such issues.

[+Dgwphotos]

Just because the thread has "Utah" in the subject, this isn't just a West and Southwest issue. We all need to be aware of and concerned about such issues.

 

I agree! I think law enforcement awareness is a problem that needs more attention in all of our communities.

[+JL_HSTRE]

http://www.standard.net/topics/davis-county-sheriffs-office/2011/06/28/geocache-item-mistaken-bomb-syracuse

 

While cachers should be careful about urban hides in general, urban ammo cans seem like a particularly bad idea because of their obvious suspicious nature. We just had an urban ammo can nearly blow up by the bomb squad in SE Florida last week.

[BlueRajah]

This seems to have been an oddity.

 

The cache was placed five years ago with the permission of the owner. It was blown up about 550' from where it was located at a "family fun center" I am betting a kid found it and moved it recently, and that led to the bomb squad.

Edited June 30, 2011 by BlueRajah

[KenW.]

My bomb guy prefers the term "disrupted". They used a hydroshot.High velocity water. The camouflaged ammo can was not in a position to get the x-ray equipment on it for a good look-see.

 

The scene is directly across the street from a police station.

[7rxc]

One thing that can always be pointed out... That Geocachers are always out and about, seeking these items. They can and do spot things that are 'suspicious' all the time. And those are outside the game. I was just looking over in 'the Hunt/the Unusual' about someone who found a lady's purse contents that had been stolen as well as the cache being sought. Over the last few years there have been the deceased, drugs, money, stolen goods, etc. all spotted by the keen eyed cacher.

 

This does not in any way change the PD response to a 'bomb' incident. At best it would help them consider options to safely achieve the same result when possible.

Around where I live, police are few in numbers and go out of their way to add 'eyes on the ground'.

You can think of it as 'force' multiplication. They are tied to their cars much of the time, we get to roam to some lightly traveled areas, often at odd hours. We often have communications devices for onsite reporting (cell phones, ham radio etc.) We have GPS for accurate position reports (and time reports). Many times we know exactly how to access the area best, often our police have rotated in from other areas of the province. More than a few of us are involved in Search and Rescue, or other Emergency Services and have a good idea how to protect/preserve a crime scene if found, others have at least watched TV recently. Some of that works in real life.

 

Anyway, the point is that often they have as much to gain overall from a good relation (many cachers are LEOs themselves), and much to lose to bad relations. Like I said earlier, sometimes it will be necessary to 'blow' a cache for safety's sake for reasons of procedure... that is fine by me. The least we could expect is consideration from the Public Information Officers about the sport when they talk to the press. The little old lady who reports a 'suspicious object' will still feel like a hero, the task will be accomplished (perhaps a little easier and quickly), relations will be maintained, and the game will be presented fairly.

Stress on the fact that sometimes, some cache placers err in judgement as to what and where they place containers, how they are marked, literal transparency of the container, contact information, visibility to the general public and so on.

 

Most PD's should be made aware of the PD membership offer. That actually goes beyond normal premium status as far as coordinates go I believe (closer to reviewer, without the publishing part), so that they can see all locations (honour system though!).

 

It's complex task, but not that hard to accomplish I think. I think personally that most police (and EMS/Fire) could often benefit from some GPS training. At least the part about recognizing the various formats. I often hear confusion about why they got to coordinates given them, but find nothing. That is because some people use decimal degrees as if it were decimal minutes or even DMS. We could be a help in sorting out that problem and help fine tune their system for them with a familiarization session. Even intro caching (private at first).

 

Doug 7rxc