"Extreme" caches

[+87preludea20a3]

Ok so there is this new cache here in the STL are called Tree Monkey GC2MH7M. It's located 40+ feet up in a tree. The cache got published on January 29th, and today got archived by a different reviewer. His archive note stated that the parks service doesn't take kindly to people climbing trees. I have two things to say about this, one why did it get published in the first place if it were such an issue. Second it's ok to climb a tree on state/ county land during hunting season to place a tree stand right? How is this recreational sport any different from hunting( in this instance, besides the shooting bambi thing)? I may be mistaken about the tree stand thing, correct me if i am. This just aggravates me a bit. I am one of only two people to climb the tree since it was published and after doing so it seems such a shame that there aren't any more "extreme" caches in the area. Anyway i guess i just wanted to post this to see what others thought of the whole situation.

Edited February 18, 2011 by 87preludea20a3

[+the4dirtydogs]

Maybe the first reviewer didn't know about the park not liking people climbing trees. The reviewer that archived the cache probably knew about the park not liking cachers in their trees. Just be happy that you were able to go find the cache before it was archived. I don't know the hunting rule so I'm not much help there. I think caching is a little different than hunting. I don't shoot the caches and skin them and take the guts out. When I find a cache I open it up and sign the log and put the cache back. So I'd say that the two are different. They both take place outdoors though. Is that what you meant?

[+87preludea20a3]

Ok so i was talking to a friend in Souther California and he sent me this note posted by a very well known reviewer there. http://www.geocaching.com/seek/log.aspx?LUID=12cee9e4-0be9-4b7c-99ea-320386eb5fc9

That sums up Geocaching completely and represents how it should be played.

[+87preludea20a3]

As far as the hunting thing goes in just stating that in hunting it's "OK" to climb a tree, but if your out hiking than it's not ok to free climb a tree?

[+87preludea20a3]

Ok, well i must admit my first interpretation of the "parks service". I thought it was relating to all MO parks service. After reading back over it i now see that it states the city of Washington MO. But still.

[+the4dirtydogs]

Ok so i was talking to a friend in Souther California and he sent me this note posted by a very well known reviewer there. http://www.geocaching.com/seek/log.aspx?LUID=12cee9e4-0be9-4b7c-99ea-320386eb5fc9

That sums up Geocaching completely and represents how it should be played.

Kosh is our reviewer as well. He/She does a really good job out here. Marko does a great job as well.

[+87preludea20a3]

Yeah they both do, I moved from So Cal about 10 months ago and ever since it has been somewhat of a hassle to get a few caches published. MO seems to be behind in the "progression" i think geocaching is heading or i feel should be heading.

[+Harry Dolphin]

Ok so there is this new cache here in the STL are called Tree Monkey GC2MH7M. It's located 40+ feet up in a tree. The cache got published on January 29th, and today got archived by a different reviewer. His archive note stated that the parks service doesn't take kindly to people climbing trees. I have two things to say about this, one why did it get published in the first place if it were such an issue. Second it's ok to climb a tree on state/ county land during hunting season to place a tree stand right? How is this recreational sport any different from hunting? I may be mistaken about the tree stand thing, correct me if i am. This just aggravates me a bit. I am one of only two people to climb the tree since it was published and after doing so it seems such a shame that there aren't any more "extreme" caches in the area. Anyway i guess i just wanted to post this to see what others thought of the whole situation.

 

You are mixing your oranges with your tomatoes, or not providing enough information. Does the park where the cache was located permit hunting? (You compared 'park services' to 'state/county land'. The two may not have the same regulations.) If the park in question permits hunting, does it permit tree stands? Or are they placed in violation of the park service rules. And I've been to several parks where there are tree stands. They predate the incorporation of the park. Hunting no long permitted.

I think you're assuming that all public land permits junting and tree stands, when that is obviously not true. Check the regulations for the park in question.

[+Ecylram]

Typically, you don't hunt in parks. Hunting is usually done on different government lands, such as forest service, which has more relaxed rules.

[+the4dirtydogs]

Yeah they both do, I moved from So Cal about 10 months ago and ever since it has been somewhat of a hassle to get a few caches published. MO seems to be behind in the "progression" i think geocaching is heading or i feel should be heading.

I thought I remembered seeing your name somewhere. It was one of Pacho's and Hazz's events. Well good luck out there and be careful climbing those trees.

[+87preludea20a3]

OK, since i have posted the first post i have realized that the problem is with the City park the cache is located in, having nothing to do with the state/ county.

[+87preludea20a3]

Thanks Ecylram, do you think a tree cache would get published in one of those areas? I know we could only speculate but what do you think?

[+StarBrand]

I know the parks department in a nearby city is ok with Geocaches but when one got placed 40 foot up a tree they objected for safety reasons. Just a small neighborhood park.

 

They also objected when one got placed "in the ground" in a false water valve vault.

 

The reviewers tend to pay close attention to the desires of land managers.

 

I figure they are allowed to change thier minds - I would like them to keep the friendly stance towards the other caches in parks. No contact or permission is required for new caches but they reserve the right to object to any individual placement.

[+87preludea20a3]

Tell you the truth, i am feeling better after finding out that it is just that park/ that city that is objective on that specific cache. There "MAY" still be hope for other tree caches.

[+Ecylram]

Thanks Ecylram, do you think a tree cache would get published in one of those areas? I know we could only speculate but what do you think?

 

They have been, so I know it's possible.

[+Don_J]

Ok so there is this new cache here in the STL are called Tree Monkey GC2MH7M. It's located 40+ feet up in a tree. The cache got published on January 29th, and today got archived by a different reviewer. His archive note stated that the parks service doesn't take kindly to people climbing trees. I have two things to say about this, one why did it get published in the first place if it were such an issue. Second it's ok to climb a tree on state/ county land during hunting season to place a tree stand right? How is this recreational sport any different from hunting( in this instance, besides the shooting bambi thing)? I may be mistaken about the tree stand thing, correct me if i am. This just aggravates me a bit. I am one of only two people to climb the tree since it was published and after doing so it seems such a shame that there aren't any more "extreme" caches in the area. Anyway i guess i just wanted to post this to see what others thought of the whole situation.

 

They let you set up dear stands and hunt in your municipal parks? That must be interesting. You left off the part where the park administrators asked that the cache be removed, as well as the fact that they have created a geocaching policy because of this cache.

[+Don_J]

Tell you the truth, i am feeling better after finding out that it is just that park/ that city that is objective on that specific cache. There "MAY" still be hope for other tree caches.

 

Not in this city's parks. Read the Archive note carefully

 

February 17 by *gln

 

At the request of the parks service this cache will be archived. They don't take kindly to tree climbing in these here parts.

 

If you would like to discuss this cache with the parks service your contact will be:

 

Mr. Josh Pedersen

jpedersen@ci.washington.mo.us

work: 636-390-1080

 

In the future all caches placed in his parks will need Josh's OK.

 

Glenn

[+caccbag]

We placed a cache way up in a tree in an area with poor GPS reading and impossible to see from below. It had high star ratings in both D & T. It was published, found by one person (somehow...we thought it would last almost forever, but he admitted he got lucky and accidently left a trail of small broken branches) but then disabled it because the reviewer learned that tree climbing was against the law. My first reactionw as "What?! In a city (San Francisco) that tries to legalize ever taboo known to man, they criminalize climbing a tree?!" but I looked it up and it was a SF Park and Recreation code and I planted the cache in a park. So I immediatly agreed to archive it and posted a note that cachers should honor the law and not go after the cache (I had to leave it where it was as I was likewsie prohibited from climbing that tree). I did write to the Park department to see if I could get an exception but never heard from them. Oh well.....I am still free to stick a blinke on the Park's port-a-john handle

[+87preludea20a3]

I understand that it may be illegal to climb trees in certain areas.

[+toadfrommars]

I think the point of preludes arguement is that it seems to be a double standard. Obviously there is a difference between hunting and geocaching, but both may involve climbing a tree. The tree in question(I'm the other climber, and the one in the picture in case your wondering) to me seems to be in a perfect location for this cache. Its secluded, yet in the middle of a town. I also realize it is the city that shot this down(no pun intended) not the state, but how many kids have climbed this tree without anyone knowing? You know what your getting into when attempt this kind of stuff.

[+Ecylram]

I think the point of preludes arguement is that it seems to be a double standard. Obviously there is a difference between hunting and geocaching, but both may involve climbing a tree. The tree in question(I'm the other climber, and the one in the picture in case your wondering) to me seems to be in a perfect location for this cache. Its secluded, yet in the middle of a town. I also realize it is the city that shot this down(no pun intended) not the state, but how many kids have climbed this tree without anyone knowing? You know what your getting into when attempt this kind of stuff.

It's kinda a shame that kids aren't allowed to climb trees in some areas.

[+DocWahala]

Even though I am nowhere near SF, I am going to keep this one in mind. I have quite a few friends who own hunting camps (hint hint). Before reading this, when I would think of "extreme", I was always thinking scuba and rappeling. Will now file trees in that dark corner of the mind.

 

DocWahala

[+jmw61]

Ok so i was talking to a friend in Souther California and he sent me this note posted by a very well known reviewer there. http://www.geocaching.com/seek/log.aspx?LUID=12cee9e4-0be9-4b7c-99ea-320386eb5fc9

That sums up Geocaching completely and represents how it should be played.

 

That does sum it up doesn't it.

[+KBLAST]

Even though I am nowhere near SF, I am going to keep this one in mind. I have quite a few friends who own hunting camps (hint hint). Before reading this, when I would think of "extreme", I was always thinking scuba and rappeling. Will now file trees in that dark corner of the mind.

 

DocWahala

 

Here in Columbus we've accumulated quite the repertoire of crazy terrain hides. Climbing and Crawling is a list of almost all of them. Climbing refers almost exclusively to trees, from 15 feet up to 60+ feet up. Crawling refers to going under parking lots and into tunnels. When we talk about terrain in Columbus, this is the first thing that comes to mind.

[+JamGuys]

"What?! In a city (San Francisco) that tries to legalize ever taboo known to man, they criminalize climbing a tree?!"

 

:D

[+Don_J]

"What?! In a city (San Francisco) that tries to legalize ever taboo known to man, they criminalize climbing a tree?!"

 

:D

 

They prefer that you hug them, and read them poetry.

[+NicknPapa]

"What?! In a city (San Francisco) that tries to legalize ever taboo known to man, they criminalize climbing a tree?!"

 

:D

STL = St. Luis, not San Fransisco.

[knowschad]

"What?! In a city (San Francisco) that tries to legalize ever taboo known to man, they criminalize climbing a tree?!"

 

:D

:How can they legalize it until they make it taboo?

[+DocWahala]

 

Here in Columbus we've accumulated quite the repertoire of crazy terrain hides. Climbing and Crawling is a list of almost all of them. Climbing refers almost exclusively to trees, from 15 feet up to 60+ feet up. Crawling refers to going under parking lots and into tunnels. When we talk about terrain in Columbus, this is the first thing that comes to mind.

 

That's it... I am going to have to get up to Columbia! Now...I just need to come up with a good "excuse" that the wife won't see through.

[+87preludea20a3]

Does anyone have any information on recreational tree climbing. I have been doing some research and have found that as a general rule of thumb there is no laws prohibiting tree climbing. As long as your not damaging the tree in any way or you are not a danger to others... I found a group in STL called SLAG or St Louis Adventure Group that just recently ( two days ago ) had a tree climbing get together. But I could not find where they held this event. I'm in the process of contacting the person who held the event, and will hopefully learn more. Anyways if anyone knows anything about tree climbing please chime in...

[+87preludea20a3]

I have received these emails from tree climbing groups around STL and in Missori...

Brandt,

 

You have asked a question that has been weighing on my mind for years and I applaud your efforts in requesting comments. I also find it difficult to trespass in a public park to climb in their trees without permission. When you get down to it we really have no defense for our actions just because the effort in getting permission is so great. Don’t get me started about “It is easier to ask forgiveness than permission”. The public authorities’ are responsible for preserving the health of their park lands; fauna and flora as well as the safety of the people using them. In that lays the rub- Liability. Just look at the lack of injury from Recreational Tree Climbing as compared with every other sport that takes place in our parks.

 

There are many sports that require permission to use public lands. Some require a just a signed notice of use with or without a user fee; some require a waiver; some require that you pay a bond to pay for the search and rescue team expenses if you fail to complete your event within the allowed time. In each case the authority has the responsibility to determine if you are capable to completing your event without injury, harm or damage to yourself, others or the property. What better way is there than to present your credentials of capability than presenting a diploma stating that you have satisfactory completed a Basic Tree Climbing course based on Acceptable Climbing Practices?

 

An Instructor following the Acceptable Climbing Practices guidelines established by a board of Recreational Tree Climbing leaders can teach you how to safely climb on your own without supervision. The Instructor has insurance coverage in effect while you are a student but you are on your own once you leave the class. The group that I am referring to is in the final stages of formation is called Global Organization of Tree Climbers aka Go Tree Climbing; GOTC; http://www.GoTreeClimbing.org

 

Currently we are composing guidelines for Instructors/Facilitators to meet or exceed for conducting private lessons; public climbs; etc. Our goal is to have ACP’s for all styles of recreational tree climbing.

 

I consider the satisfactory completion of a Basic Tree Climbing class that follows GOTC guidelines the best place to start in building your credentials. The student that has completed to the satisfaction of their GOTC recognized Instructor their ability to climb without supervision should be able to present their credentials to a landowner or public property official to attempt to get permission for recreational tree climbing. If more terms are required, I suggest presenting a waiver stating you hold the landowner harmless in case of injury to yourself and present a certificate of insurance stating you are financially responsible for injury to others or damages to the property. Everyone would benefit with a personal liability policy and if combined with possible additional coverage you will have demonstrated financial responsibility.

 

I am all in favor of campaigning to the authorities to make known that there are proven skill building processes that work and have passed the test of time. There are no easy answers or easy paths but we can refine this process to establish Recreational Tree Climbing as a recognized activity for all ages and abilities.

 

See you at the top,

Dan House

 

NOTE: these comments are my vision alone and do not represent the consensus views of the GOTC organization at this time.

 

Aswell as this one,

Hello Brandt:

 

I will tell you what I know, but I don't have all the answers.

 

I have been told by some county park personnel that, as far as they're concerned, there's nothing prohibiting someone from tree climbing for their own recreation. However, this is not an official position and I always climb in out-of-the-way places to avoid attention.

 

Likewise, a ranger at Forest Park in the city told me to "enjoy my recreation" when he saw me putting a throw-line in a tree, but I do not have formal permission to climb in Forest Park and I always stay as unobtrusive as possible.

 

It is my understanding, and I'm pretty confident about this, that you can climb trees on national forest land and this is perfectly OK.

 

Of course, you need to get permission before climbing on private property.

 

I hope this helps. Please let me know if there's anything else I can help you with. Also, if you find out any specifics about where you can and cannot climb then please let me know.

 

Thanks and good luck -

 

Guy

 

Adventure Tree Climbing and Experiential Education

www.adventuretreeclimbing.org