Should I delete the FTF?

[+sbell111]

...but if someone doesn't sign the physical log, technically they can't claim the find, right?

Everything else will be entirely up to you, but I did want to address this point. While the guidelines mention words to the effect of, once a person signs the log they can log it online, there are some in these forums who will argue that the reverse isn't necessarily true. Personally, I won't log any cache unless my moniker graces the log, however there are supposedly many legitimate reasons why a person could not sign a log. If you accept that a person locating the cache, opening it, closing it and returning it constitutes a find, then you should not delete the find log. Being FTF is irrelevant to this issue. If you accept that what this guy did was a find, then he was first. Period. If you do not accept that as a find, then act accordingly. Don't make your decision based on timing. Ask yourself what your response would have been had this occurred several months from now, with several dozen finds already logged. Treat this log the same way.

+1

[+Brooklyn51]

 

Well then, how does the guy not signing the log know he was first? Perhaps, three other joggers came by and found it first but also didn't sign the log.

 

No sig, no find, especially if you're claiming FTF rights.

 

Then let the other 3 joggers state their case. This guy gave empirical if not explicit evidence that he found the cache, he attempted to sign it and is willing to accept the judgement of the CO on the matter as is the 2TF. He found it first (probably) Let his FTF stand. Life is good.

[+e5c4p3artist]

It is always tough to be in a position like this, but any finder should be able to provide proof that they found the cache. I understand other viewpoints, but I am in the "you didn't sign it, you don't get credit" camp. To avoid situations exactly like this, I have the following sentence in the description for my caches:

 

"Be sure to sign the log to receive credit for the find. Online logs may be deleted if the physical log is not signed."

 

At least that way when I delete a non-signer's log, I feel they were adequately warned.

 

Personally, I would give the guy a chance to prove to me that he found it, but if he could not or if he did not respond, I would delete it. From what has been stated so far about this situation, I would delete it.

[Trader Rick & Rosie]

"Geocaches can be logged online as Found once the physical log has been signed."

[+geekslady]

OP - This is what seems logical to me.

Put them as CO-FTF. Both guys dont care so no ones wittle feelings will be hurt. Looks like they found it with in minutes of each other anyway. Then enjoy maintaining your cache. After about 5 more finds both logs will be off the first page and no one will be the wiser.

[+sbell111]

"Geocaches can be logged online as Found once the physical log has been signed."

That little bit of the guidelines doesn't mean what you think it does.

[+Castle Mischief]

"Geocaches can be logged online as Found once the physical log has been signed."

That little bit of the guidelines doesn't mean what you think it does.

 

[+Ampresearch]

i feel it is most important when dealing with FTF that the log is 100% signed. if this was not the case then anyone could simply log the find as FTF ASAP and then say "opps i forgot to sign"

 

i plan to have several high end hides but so far only have two. on both i take my happy butt out to the cache just to check the FTF. people are crazy about the FTF and i feel this is the only way to make it fair.

 

for example on my very first hide i had two people claim FTF. both of them did find what they thought was the cache. but failed to sign the log. the reason was i had a dummy cache very close to the real deal with a note inside taunting them. It said " If only it was this easy KEEP LOOKING". they decided that this was the real cache since they could not find any otherit and signed the note saying to keep looking. clearly it wasnot the real cache and if it was not for the fact that i went to look and found this out other FTF hounds would have stopped trying to rush to it thinking it was already found. a few hours later i had a real FTF

 

point is i think we should make an effort to verifi all FTF logs since its the most important one to most cahcers. there will be lots of log signatures but only one will be first.

Edited September 23, 2010 by Ampresearch

[+bflentje]

 

Well then, how does the guy not signing the log know he was first? Perhaps, three other joggers came by and found it first but also didn't sign the log.

 

No sig, no find, especially if you're claiming FTF rights.

 

Then let the other 3 joggers state their case. This guy gave empirical if not explicit evidence that he found the cache, he attempted to sign it and is willing to accept the judgement of the CO on the matter as is the 2TF. He found it first (probably) Let his FTF stand. Life is good.

 

Outside of FTF, I really don't care. But if the dude is serious about FTF, then he should be serious enough to have a writing utinsel. I don't know all of the facts and I technically don't care. I was just countering Riffter's post, which you trimmed out of your post.

[Clan Riffster]

Outside of FTF, I really don't care.

That's probably where we differ. I think whatever "rules" a cache owner plays by should be applied evenly, regardless of when a cacher found their hide. Maybe it's just my innate love for consistency? If I create a particular standard for folks who seek my hides, such as "You must sign the log", or "Your word is good enough for me", it should apply to the first to find, fifth to find or fiftieth to find. I won't change my standard simply because some cachers choose to play some quirky aspect of this game such as the FTF chase.

[+addisonbr]

I would generally follow CR's philosophy of equivalent standards regardless of the side games.

 

Regarding the OP, if I believed that the jogger actually found the cache, I'd let the claim of a find stand.

[+armadillogal]

[

Absolutely. I would not do anything based simply on the word of the second cacher. If I was inclined to delete the log, I would first check the logsheet personally. The first cacher may have signed the log, then the second cacher could have opened it up and looked at the backside, seen no signature and jumped to conclusions.

It could go the other way, too, for that matter. It could be Cacher B got there first but Cacher A missed B's signature, thought he was FTF, and logged online first.

 

This just happened to me last night! I swore the logbook was empty when I signed it. Now it was dark & I was using a flashlight but when I got home there were 3 people who claimed to have been there before me and took the travel bug which I did not find but I did see te bobber they left. There were 2pencils in the box so not having a pen is no excuse. The planter has only done 3 boxes so far....I wonder what he'll do. It's close enough I can go check myself in the daylight....or should I e-mail him?