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sundance5567

Louisville - Dallis Airway Beacons

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Hi Group,

I live near the site of a BM listed as GC2106, Airway Beacon 70, on the old Louisville - Dallas mail route. Appently these steel beacons were put up in the 1920's - most have a 1933 first find { WPA? } and were torn down in the 1940's, but some of the sites I have seen listed describe a large concrete arrow close to where the tower was. Have any of you seen these arrows? In scouting out 4 of the sites this week, I have not found anything left of the tower mounts or any other traces that they were ever there...I hope that I am just a little off in my search area...I will keep you posted.

 

So far I have the listings from L'ville to Nashville... if I can find some of these I will be happy!!! anyone further southwest want to help in the hunt?

 

David

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I think nearly all of them have been dismantled, most long ago. The only one I ever saw was in the mountains east of Las Vegas NV, and I have been through all the lower 48.

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OK, I am learning WAY too much stuff...this is more than I bargained for. icon_wink.gif

 

Max

Often wrong but seldom in doubt

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Thank you Black Dog Trackers...Great info, it should make finding some of these sites a little easier...I should be able to find some remnants of the generator mounts at least...BTW, I am also a member of the Society for Industrial Archeology, so I have been looking at old "stuff" for a long time. This just makes it more fun!!!! thanks again.

 

David

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Hi K & S, nice connection, and a great picture! I wonder if there is any kind of a marker on / around the arrow. If it stops raining here, I will go check another nearby location. It seems like the farmers around here may have been more aggresive in removing small bits of history then in other areas.... Thank you to all who have jumped in on this.

 

David

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when I worked as a contractor for the FAA and we went around to all their remote communications sites, which in some cases were at these old FSS's that hadn't been torn down yet, because the FAA was using them as a RCO or RCAG site. I'll have to go back and look through all my photos and see if I got a picture of one of those arrows, and old beacon towers. I know I climbed up one of those old, rickety, shaky things, and swore I wasn't ever climbing up anothe one again.

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As a young boy, I remember my Dad ( an engineer for ITT ) took me to Telegraph Hill, near Red Bank,NJ and we climbed the old wooden tower there...it was great until my Dad put his foot thru a step on the desent WAY up there, and I was behind him on the way down...still climb towers, but I don't do wooden ones anymore!

Hope you find some info on these sites, it would be neat to identify a few complete lines.

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At one time, the FAA maintained over TWO THOUSAND of these Airway Beacon sites. They were really sophisticated for their time -- one million candlepower beacons, with color-coded lights that blinked out their beacon ID's in Morse code!

 

The FAA is currently trying to figure out what to do with the sites that are left ... some have underground storage tanks that have to be remediated, some had PCB-based components.

 

I wish I had a map of all the sites -- I'm sure there are a few that are reasonably intact, and they'd be fun to visit / photograph. If anyone knows of any located within a couple hours of Atlanta, please let me know ... I'll get there, take pictures, and share them. If there's something identifiable on-site, maybe a virtual cache would be in order!

 

--

Scott Johnson (ScottJ)

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Anyone have any good contacts within the FAA that could get an old list / map? I agree that it would be really cool to find a reletivly well preserved site, but for now I am going to find whats left of the ones close by. Lets keep this thread somewhere near the top....

 

David

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I used to work as a contractor for the FAA for about 11 years, upgrading their remote communications sites, and building new airport airtraffic control towers, and other nav/comm facilities. I will see if I can get a hold of one of my friends in the Nav/Comm Facilites section of the regional office here in the seattle area. I know I've seen drawings of some of these beacons in their drawing files. I also just saw where geocacher M&M found the Rattlesnake Mountain Air Beacon benchmark, SX1318, and said it is still there and maintained by a local electical company. I'll contact them and see if I can get them to take me up there and get some pictures of it and hopefully the concrete arrow. If I do, I'll post here and at the benchmark listing.

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I just now read this thread and can't resist adding a "me too"-- While looking for local benchmarks my attention was caught by one called "SAN FRAN SALT LK CTY AWY BCN 9". I started looking into the history and got hooked.

 

The SF-SLC route was the last to open due to the difficulty of getting over the Sierras. With a little creative searching of the NGS database I've found benchmark notes for beacons 3, 4, 5, 8, 9, 11B, 14A, and 15. The last two of these will have to wait a few months for some snow melt as they're on Sierra peaks, but I'm going to start looking to see what's left of the rest.

 

If some FAA list is found, I'd love to know where the others might have been.

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I would bet that you will find at least the remains of some of them, but they may be in some very hard to reach, and even dangerous, places.

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I found the concrete base of Columbus Phila Airway Beacon 30. KW2811 It is just north of Carlisle, PA on Blue Mountain.

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Well I finally found an old farmer who remembers at least 2 of the nearby sites, and is going to take a walk with me in the next few weeks to show me them... they appear to be near where they should be... I will keep looking! This is a lot of fun, and I have had the pleasure of meeting and talking with a bunch of neat old folks!!!!And they just don't know what to think of this 'Northener' who wants to just sit and talk about "the old days"...cool.

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Just a short update...went to a wedding on Sat. afternoon, and met the present owner of the property where one of these towers used to be...he invited me to come over anytime to search for the site, didn't know it had been there...more soon.

David

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icon_cool.gifCheck out GC2106 , I finally found one!!!!!!! The little old lady that owns the property was out tending her iris when I stopped by today. We have had some very pleasent visits in the past, but I didn't know she owned it until the other day. Her face lit up when I asked her about the beacon... she had such nice memories of it..." It was My rotating light,...We would look out at it to see how bad the storms were....The rent for that tower put food on the table during bad times....etc" I was so glad to have taken the time to visit today. I'm planning to go back with a broom/ shovel, first to uncover, then to recover the arrow end if its still there.

Alright group, lets see if we can run this whole line down...BTW, The tower pad is topped with a still bright yellow concrete ..

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I am finding this topic particularly interesting. I don't know of any easy way to extract all of the airway beacons out of the database, either at geocaching.com or at the ngs site. Even then, some of them are more accurately described as airport beacons. Anyway, I went thru my various lists of benchmarks and extracted the following, in case they are of interest to anyone:

 

FZ1929 AIRWAY BCN 33 4 MI NE WYTHVLE VA, Wythe

GC2535 AIRWAY BEACON 62 TN, Williamson

FN0519 DENVER ALBUQUERQUE AWY BN 37 NM, Mora

FO1641 LOS ANGELES ALBUQ AWY BN 62 NM, Cibola

GD1862 MEMPHIS ST LOUIS AIRWAY BCN 47 MO, Stoddard

JV5881 NEW YORK WASH AIRWAY BCN 57B MD, Prince Georges

MF1748 OMAHA CHICAGO AIRWAY BEACON 31 IL, Whiteside

MF1738 OMAHA CHICAGO AIRWAY BEACON 32 IL, Lee

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OT0813 sounds like a neat one..highest point in the Black Hills.

 

I just found that doing a station name search of "Airway" on the NGS data sheets will bring up a list. You have to do it state-by-state, but it gives you a collection of PIDs to pursue.

 

Ooo...ooo! (sorry, I'm getting a little carried away). I also tried searching on "Chicago" in my state of Pennsylvania, and came up with 13 Chicago New York Airway beacon stations. If you've got a clue for what to search on (e.g., the name of a route and the probable state course), you can turn up a chunk of 'em.

 

Max

Often wrong but seldom in doubt

 

[This message was edited by embra on April 08, 2003 at 05:50 PM.]

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quote:
Originally posted by embra:

I just found that doing a station name search of "Airway" on the NGS data sheets...

 

Ooo...ooo! (sorry, I'm getting a little carried away). I also tried searching on "Chicago"...


 

Yea, it's pretty neat, isn't it! I discovered the same thing this afternoon after I posted my note. I'm trying to compile a list of airway beacons on the NGS site, if anyone has any ideas of searches to use, please let me know.

 

Thanks.

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NGS just recently quit selling their datasheets on CD. I have a 1993 vintage CD for the north central region that I extracted these from.

 

"PID","NAME","STATE"

MO1117,AIRWAY BCN 1 18 MI N CHEYENNE,WY

MQ0471,AIRWAY BCN 15 4 MI ENE GREEN R,WY

PW0476,AIRWAY BCN 28 ENE KEARNEY,WY

QY0531,AIRWAY BCN 30 10 MI SSW DILLON,MT

QY0516,AIRWAY BCN 32 DILLON MUN APT,MT

QV0342,AIRWAY BCN 34 10 MI NW WYOLA,MT

QY0497,AIRWAY BCN 34 NNE TWIN BRIDGES,MT

RW0489,AIRWAY BCN 43 18 MI NNE HELENA,MT

RX0975,AIRWAY BCN 44 A SW OF DRUMMOND,MT

RX0950,AIRWAY BCN 47 SSW OF AVON,MT

SS1506,AIRWAY BCN 53 7 MI NE STANFORD,MT

SS1522,AIRWAY BCN 56 12 MI ESE BELT,MT

RX0931,AIRWAY BCN B 2 SSW DEER LODGE,MT

RX0926,AIRWAY BCN B 3 NW SILVER BOW,MT

MN0422,AIRWAY BEACON,NE

RX0900,AIRWAY BEACON,MT

MJ1250,AIRWAY BEACON 0,IA

MJ1203,AIRWAY BEACON 1,IA

NE1276,AIRWAY BEACON 27,MI

ME2413,AIRWAY BEACON 6,IN

MK1989,AIRWAY BEACON 88,NE

NF1367,AIRWAY BEACON NO 20,MI

MR0773,AIRWAY BN 11 11 MI SSW GRANGER,WY

MJ1205,AIRWAY BN 14 FLASH RED WHITE,NE

MF1502,AIRWAY BN 35 NE OF SHERIDAN,IL

QY0505,AIRWAY BN 36F 8 MI SE OF BUTTE,MT

MO1167,AIRWAY BN 8 10 MI SE WHEATLAND,WY

MK1998,AIRWAY BN 87 FLASH RED WHITE,NE

JE2026,AMARILLO KANS CITY AWY BCN 45,KS

HF1187,AMARILLO KANSAS CITY AWY BN 33,KS

HF1196,AMARILLO KANSAS CITY AWY BN 32,KS

HF1203,AMARILLO KANSAS CITY AWY BN 31,KS

HF1245,AMARILLO KANSAS CITY AWY BN 28,KS

HF1365,AMARILLO KANSAS CITY AWY BN 27,KS

JE1654,AMARILLO KANSAS CITY AWY BN 42,KS

JE1673,AMARILLO KANSAS CITY AWY BN 41,KS

JE1751,AMARILLO KANSAS CITY AWY BN 39,KS

JE1805,AMARILLO KANSAS CITY AWY BN 40,KS

JF1410,AMARILLO KANSAS CITY AWY BN 35,KS

JF1439,AMARILLO KANSAS CITY AWY BN 34,KS

GG0537,AMARILLO ST LOUIS AWY BCN 45,MO

GG0571,AMARILLO ST LOUIS AWY BCN 44,MO

GG0582,AMARILLO ST LOUIS AWY BCN 43A,MO

GG0586,AMARILLO ST LOUIS AWY BCN 43B,MO

HD1176,AMARILLO ST LOUIS AWY BCN 53,MO

KE1557,AMBER AIRWAY 4 BEACON 5,MO

LF1332,AMBER AIRWAY 4 BEACON 7,MO

LF1340,AMBER AIRWAY 4 BEACON 8,MO

LA2002,BAER FIELD AIRWAY BEACON,IN

ON1166,BANGOR AIRWAY BEACON,WI

NH1194,BELVIDERE CHI ST PAUL AWY BN 6,IL

QW0514,BILLINGS B AIRWAY BEACON,MT

RT0485,BILLINGS BISMARCK AWY BCN 37,MT

RS0394,BISMARCK BILLINGS AWY BCN 50,ND

RR0768,BISMARCK FARGO AWY BN 62,ND

ON1117,CAMP MCCOY AIRWAY BEACON,WI

QW0577,CANYON CREEK B AIRWAY BEACON,MT

NQ0488,CHERRY HILL SAWYER STOCK L MST,WY

NQ0545,CHEYENNE GREAT FALLS AWY BCN 9,WY

NQ0596,CHEYENNE GREAT FALLS AWY BCN 8,WY

NQ0649,CHEYENNE GREAT FALLS AWY BN 12,WY

NQ0678,CHEYENNE GREAT FALLS AWY BN 14,WY

NQ0563,CHEYENNE GRT FALLS AWY BN 11A,WY

NP0689,CHEYENNE HURON AWY BCN 17,NE

ME3011,CHICAGO KANSAS CITY AWY BCN 39,IL

MF1330,CHICAGO KANSAS CITY AWY BCN 38,IL

MD1697,CHICAGO NEW YORK AIRWAY BCN 11,IN

MD1847,CHICAGO NEW YORK AWY BCN 14,IN

ME2452,CHICAGO NEW YORK AWY BEACON 4B,IN

MF1439,CHICAGO SPRINGFIELD AWY BCN 20,IL

NG0618,CHICAGO ST PAUL AIRWAY BCN 4,IL

NG0660,CHICAGO ST PAUL AWY BCN 5 C,WI

NH1467,CHICAGO ST PAUL AWY BCN 9,IL

LA2411,DAYTON GRAND RAPIDS AWY BCN 8,IN

MD1615,DAYTON GRAND RAPIDS AWY BN 11,IN

SL1555,FARGO WINNIPEG AIRWAY BEACON 2,ND

SL1606,FARGO WINNIPEG AIRWAY BEACON 4,ND

RV0735,GREAT FALLS BILLINGS AWY BN 46,MT

RV0737,GREAT FALLS BILLINGS AWY BN 47,MT

RV0743,GREAT FALLS BILLINGS AWY BN 48,MT

SS1432,GREAT FALLS BILLINGS AWY BN 58,MT

SS1548,GREAT FALLS BILLINGS AWY BN 57,MT

SS1457,GREAT FALLS ID FALLS AWY BN 47,MT

OT0813,HARNEY PEAK AIRWAY BEACON,SD

RP0918,HELENA TWIN CITIES AWY BCN 81,MN

RP0931,HELENA TWIN CITIES AWY BCN 79,MN

RP0948,HELENA TWIN CITIES AWY BN 82 A,MN

MM0455,HERSHEY WATER TK=AIRWAY BN 62,NE

JZ3314,INDIANAPOLIS DAYTON AWY BCN 4,IN

KA1960,INDIANAPOLIS ST LOU AWY BCN 22,IN

KA2004,INDIANAPOLIS ST LOU AWY BCN 21,IN

LB2151,JASPER CO AIRPORT AIRWAY BCN,IN

KE1311,KANSAS C MINNEAPOLIS AWY BN 4,MO

KE1317,KANSAS CITY CHICAGO AWY BCN 3,MO

KE1321,KANSAS CITY CHICAGO AWY BCN 2,MO

KE1397,KANSAS CITY CHICAGO AWY BCN 0,MO

KE1412,KANSAS CITY CHICAGO AWY BCN 1,MO

LD0761,KANSAS CITY CHICAGO AWY BCN 24,IL

LD0766,KANSAS CITY CHICAGO AWY BCN 23,IL

LD0769,KANSAS CITY CHICAGO AWY BCN 22,IL

LD0853,KANSAS CITY CHICAGO AWY BCN 16,MO

MF1686,KANSAS CITY CHICAGO AWY BCN 29,IL

MG0699,KANSAS CITY CHICAGO AWY BCN 27,IL

MG0705,KANSAS CITY CHICAGO AWY BCN 26,IL

KD1139,KANSAS CITY CHICAGO AWY BN 10B,MO

KD1145,KANSAS CITY CHICAGO AWY BN 10,MO

KD1173,KANSAS CITY CHICAGO AWY BN 6,MO

KD1178,KANSAS CITY CHICAGO AWY BN 8,MO

KD1181,KANSAS CITY CHICAGO AWY BN 7,MO

KD1295,KANSAS CITY CHICAGO AWY BN 5,MO

LD0722,KANSAS CITY CHICAGO AWY BN 25B,IL

LD0726,KANSAS CITY CHICAGO AWY BN 25A,IL

LE0452,KANSAS CITY CHICAGO AWY BN 15,MO

LE0454,KANSAS CITY CHICAGO AWY BN 14,MO

LE0471,KANSAS CITY CHICAGO AWY BN 13,MO

LE0485,KANSAS CITY CHICAGO AWY BN 12,MO

LE0493,KANSAS CITY CHICAGO AWY BN 11,MO

KE1430,KANSAS CITY OMAHA AWY BCN 2,MO

KE1528,KANSAS CITY OMAHA AWY BCN 3,MO

JC1538,KANSAS CITY ST LOUIS AWY BN 15,MO

JC1568,KANSAS CITY ST LOUIS AWY BN 14,MO

JD2464,KANSAS CITY ST LOUIS AWY BN 13,MO

JD2500,KANSAS CITY ST LOUIS AWY BN 11,MO

KD1095,KANSAS CITY ST LOUIS AWY BCN 8,MO

KD1201,KANSAS CITY ST LOUIS AWY BN 7,MO

KD1210,KANSAS CITY ST LOUIS AWY BN 6,MO

KD1264,KANSAS CITY ST LOUIS AWY BCN 3,MO

KE1346,KANSAS CITY ST LOUIS AWY BCN 2,MO

KE1378,KANSAS CITY ST LOUIS AWY BCN 1,MO

MF1702,KEWANEE AIRPORT AIRWAY BEACON,IL

QX0657,LIVINGSTON BILLINGS AWY BCN 12,MT

QW0634,LIVINGSTON BILLINGS AWY BN 13B,MT

QW0640,LIVINGSTON BILLINGS AWY BN 13A,MT

HZ2355,LOUISVILLE INDIANAP AWY BN 3,IN

KB1210,MATTOON COLES CO AIRWAY BEACON,IL

GD1843,MEMPHIS ST LOUIS AIRWAY BCN 45,MO

GD1859,MEMPHIS ST LOUIS AIRWAY BCN 46,MO

GD1862,MEMPHIS ST LOUIS AIRWAY BCN 47,MO

HC0909,MEMPHIS ST LOUIS AWY BCN 55,MO

HB1750,MEMPHIS ST LOUIS AWY BEACON 48,MO

HB1751,MEMPHIS ST LOUIS AWY BEACON 49,MO

HB1758,MEMPHIS ST LOUIS AWY BEACON 50,MO

HB1772,MEMPHIS ST LOUIS AWY BEACON 52,MO

HB1775,MEMPHIS ST LOUIS AWY BEACON 53,MO

HB1787,MEMPHIS ST LOUIS AWY BEACON 54,MO

JZ3342,MILROY AIRPORT AWY BCN S 5,IN

OM1146,MILWAUKEE ST PAUL AWY BCN 8,WI

LA2087,MUNCIE AIRPORT AIRWAY BEACON,IN

NE1534,MUSKEGON DETROIT AWY BCN 14,MI

JZ3291,NEW GERMANTOWN AWY BCN 5,IN

NE1476,NEWPORT AIRWAY BEACON 24,MI

MJ1227,OFFUTT FIELD AIRWAY BCN 332,NE

MH0470,OMAHA AWY BCN WSW MILLERSBURG,IA

OQ0723,OMAHA BISMARCK AIRWAY BCN 15,SD

MG0669,OMAHA CHICAGO AIRWAY BCN 30,IL

MF1738,OMAHA CHICAGO AIRWAY BEACON 32,IL

MF1748,OMAHA CHICAGO AIRWAY BEACON 31,IL

MJ1247,OMAHA DES MOINES GRN 3 AWY BCN,IA

LG0757,OMAHA SALT LAKE CITY AWY BN 82,NE

LG0796,OMAHA SALT LAKE CITY AWY BN 81,NE

LG0896,OMAHA SALT LAKE CITY AWY BN 80,NE

NM1646,OMAHA/BISMARCK AWY BCN 9,IA

NM1666,OMAHA/SIOUX FALLS AMB 4 AWY 6,IA

LC2032,PEORIA MUN LANDING FLD AWY BCN,IL

PN1330,PLOVER BRONISLAWY CHURCH SPIRE,WI

MO1229,PORTLAND KANSAS CITY AWY BCN 9,WY

LH1044,SALT LAKE CITY OMAHA AWY BN 68,NE

LH1087,SALT LAKE CITY OMAHA AWY BN 67,NE

LJ0382,SALT LAKE CITY OMAHA AWY BN 66,NE

MP0608,SALT LAKE CITY OMAHA AWY BN 27,WY

MM0376,SALT LAKE CTY OMAHA AWY BCN 65,NE

MO1266,SALT LAKE OMAHA AWY SITE 36 BN,WY

MO1300,SALT LAKE OMAHA AWY SITE 35 BN,WY

MP0518,SALT LAKE OMAHA AWY SITE 31 BN,WY

MO1218,SAN FRAN NEW YORK AWY BCN 38,WY

MO1245,SAN FRANCISCO NEW YORK AIRWAY,WY

MD1567,SMITH FIELD AIRWAY BEACON,IN

ON1158,SPARTA AIRWAY BEACON,WI

HD1319,SPRINGFIELD MUN APT N AWY TWR,MO

HD1317,SPRINGFIELD MUN APT SE AWY TWR,MO

HD1309,SPRINGFIELD MUN APT W AWY TWR,MO

KB1516,ST LOUIS CHICAGO AIRWAY BCN 6,IL

LC1933,ST LOUIS CHICAGO AIRWAY BCN 13,IL

LC1944,ST LOUIS CHICAGO AIRWAY BCN 10,IL

KC0581,ST LOUIS CHICAGO AIRWAY BN 4,IL

KC0589,ST LOUIS CHICAGO AIRWAY BN 2,IL

LC1964,ST LOUIS CHICAGO AWY BCN 15,IL

KB1466,ST LOUIS CHICAGO AWY BCN 5,IL

JB1999,ST LOUIS INDIANAPOLIS AWY BN 3,IL

MF1687,ST LOUIS-CHICAGO AWY BCN 16,IL

MF1728,STERLING AIRPORT AIRWAY BEACON,IL

OK0625,THOMPSON AERONAUTICAL AWY BN,MI

ON1112,TOMAH AIRWAY BEACON,WI

HE0713,TULSA KANSAS CITY AIRWAY BN 11,KS

HE0805,TULSA KANSAS CITY AWY BCN 9,KS

JE1644,TULSA KANSAS CITY AWY BN 17,KS

JE1695,TULSA KANSAS CITY AWY BN 16,KS

JE1709,TULSA KANSAS CITY AWY BN 13,KS

HD1036,TULSA ST LOUIS AIRWAY BCN 57,MO

JC1509,TULSA ST LOUIS AIRWAY BCN 61,MO

HD1199,TULSA ST LOUIS AWY BCN 54A,MO

HD1207,TULSA ST LOUIS AWY BCN 54B,MO

HD1072,TULSA ST LOUIS AWY BCN 56,MO

HC0903,TULSA ST LOUIS AWY BCN 59,MO

NE1473,WILLOW RUN BOMBER PLT AWY BCN,MI

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quote:
Originally posted by RogBarn:

 

I'm trying to compile a list of airway beacons on the NGS site

Thanks.


 

Do you have any reasonable way to let us know what you've found (when you get done with some of the obvious searches)? I'm sure a number of us would like to help you supplement that list.

 

Also, are you going to drop out the airport beacons that aren't really airway beacons?

 

For instance,

LA2087,MUNCIE AIRPORT AIRWAY BEACON,IN

is at the Muncie IN airport. (And doesn't list any route).

 

(And Muncie doesn't seem large enough to qualify as a terminus of a route?)

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I don't know what faa regulations dictate it, but I think any airport that receives comercial traffic has to have either a beacon, or a ifr transmitter set to support that traffic. Commercial traffic is not limited to passenger traffic.

 

An example of a small airport that has both ifr equipment and a beacon is the Houston County airport just south of Caledonia, MN. (between pids ON1300 and ON1301) this is the fallback airport for FedEx to land at when the LaCrosse,

WI airport is fogged in.

 

I remember when the IFR equipment went in, and think that that it was put in specifically to support the requirements for FedEx to land there.

 

I found it strange that there were Fargo to Winnepeg Airway Beacons, as well as Chicago to Omaha, yet no listings of anything to or from Minneapolis or St. Paul airports. I would have expected all four of those cities to have connecting routes to Minneapolis or St. Paul. Perhaps they followed the railroads though.

 

-Rusty

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I have posted my list at:

Roger's list of airway beacons

It is just a simple list, I haven't done much in terms of cleaning it up. I have tried to go thru the states alphabetically and have gotten as far as Florida so if you have any additions in those states in particular, I'd like to hear about them. I think I'd like to keep anything listed as an airway beacon in the list, at least for now; I can use the route indicator column to show that it is something other than what we expect. A couple of regular disks have slipped in, they refer to airway beacons in their descriptions.

 

Have fun!

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Truly a wonderful list, Rog.

 

Some others for CA:

SF-Portland (PC0961, PC0964, PC0965)

SF-Seattle (PC0966)

 

You've listed 2 in Indiana that aren't far from me. I need to get over there and see what remains.

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I have updated the list. It now contains 578 entries. Changes that I made:

-removed a few that just don't belong.

-added states thru L

-added the ones provided by beejay&esskay (by the way, they are actually in Oregon. also, there's a bunch more for Indiana, check them out)

-added columns for airway route cities and beacon number if I could figure it out. To help keep things standard, I always put the city that is first alphabetically in the first city column.

-because of the above, I removed the Y/N column indicating if the route showed in the designation

-added a column if the beacon is at an airport. This was interesting, some regular airway beacons are at airports.

-probably a couple of other things that I'm forgetting right now.

 

Have fun! Feel free to add information, ask questions, give suggestions and expect answers!!

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Are there any of these concrete arrows that are known to have a vertical control disk actually set in them? Embra, myself and one other friend are in pursuit of a concrete arrow that's rumored to be on a ridge near us. We have actually talked to one ranger who has seen it in person, but not for about 15 years.

 

We had estimated it's location and went out to search, with no success. Now, after talking with this ranger and showing him our projected waypoints and tracks from the hunt he's told us "its a bit further south west on the ridge than we traveled, that the land directly to the west goes down hill sharply".

arrow.jpg

Based on this new info, we had projected a new waypoint. Then I dug out a fairly recent paper quad and see that there is what appears to be a spot elevation marked on the map even further than our most recent projection, BUT, still matching the new clues from the ranger. Is there a high probability that the same spot chosen for the arrow would be marked for spot elevation? And back to my original question: Is it possible/probable that there is a disk in this location? Up till now, I've never really noticed an elevation marked at somewhere other than the obvious topographical peak, though even as I write this, I see there are some marked along the various roads up through the mountain. What's the rationale behind choosing when to do this?

 

Greg

N 39 54.705'

W 77 33.137'

 

[This message was edited by gnbrotz on June 13, 2003 at 07:40 PM.]

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Its always been my understanding that they place spot elevations where they are most recognizable and useful, at more or less regular intervals, so there will be no large areas without any. Road intersections are typically the most recognizable spots in remote areas, but where a winding road runs for a long distance with no intersections, the bends in the road may be used instead. I think you are doing an outstanding job of pursuing this, and there is a good chance you are right about that spot elevation being on the concrete. I would doubt that you will find a disk there though.

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