Saturation on multi-caches

[+Mark+Karen]

Hello!

I'm thinking of setting up a multi-cache in my home town. The place where I'll be hiding the final cache is well away from any other caches.

 

However the place where I'd like the inital coordinates to be, would basically be right next to an existing physical cache; although the task for the cacher at this point would just be a visual one (e.g. counting the number of letters etc) and wouldn't involve this cache. Would this be ok with the guidelines?

 

Additionally is it acceptable in the description of a multi-cache to suggest other caches people can do along the way? Ones which are not owned by me.

[+speakers-corner]

Hi Mark

 

I think as long as you are able to keep to the distance rule then you wont have any problems with the first stage of your multi. As to adding the other Caches that are close to your multi in the description, the owners would probably be only too pleased if you would do that, you could contact each owner asking them if it was ok.

 

Best wishes David

Edited June 16, 2010 by speakers-corner

[+The Blorenges]

When you set up your cache page you'll have to submit the Waypoints for the various stages. If you code it as "Question to Answer" or "Reference Point" then you will be making it a "virtual waypoint" which allows it to be closer than 528ft to any physical cache.

 

For useful information see Groundspeak Knowledge Book: Additional Waypoints.

 

MrsB

[+speakers-corner]

Also another thought. Instead of the start coordinates being next to the physical Cache have another starting point and set a bearing and distance to the place next to the Cache then set this stage to a "Question to answer". This has been done often in Germany and the reviewers have accepted it.

[+Mark+Karen]

Thanks. So you are saying that the first stage can be as close as I like to other existing caches? If so, great!

 

PS. I only want to put it in that location as it's the main square in the town and hence a logical starting point since it's very well known and close to parking etc.

[+Bear and Ragged]

Thanks. So you are saying that the first stage can be as close as I like to other existing caches? If so, great!

 

PS. I only want to put it in that location as it's the main square in the town and hence a logical starting point since it's very well known and close to parking etc.

 

Any 'non physical' part of a cache, such as 'Question to Answer' can be as near to another cache as you wish. Even at the same co-ords...

 

There was a discussion on the US side of the forums, and given the right conditions 'Question to Answer' 'Reference Point' 'Bogus co-ords' for a puzzle cache etc., you can get around three or four icons all posted at the same spot on a map!

Edited June 16, 2010 by Bear and Ragged

[+Mark+Karen]

Thanks. So you are saying that the first stage can be as close as I like to other existing caches? If so, great!

 

PS. I only want to put it in that location as it's the main square in the town and hence a logical starting point since it's very well known and close to parking etc.

 

Any 'non physical' part of a cache, such as 'Question to Answer' can be as near to another cache as you wish. Even at the same co-ords...

 

There was a discussion on the US side of the forums, and given the right conditions 'Question to Answer' 'Reference Point' 'Bogus co-ords' for a puzzle cache etc., you can get around three or four icons all posted at the same spot on a map!

 

Cheers. I think my coords won't be exactly on top of the existing cache, just a bit closer then 0.1 miles.

[+The Other Stu]

Thanks. So you are saying that the first stage can be as close as I like to other existing caches? If so, great!

 

PS. I only want to put it in that location as it's the main square in the town and hence a logical starting point since it's very well known and close to parking etc.

 

Any 'non physical' part of a cache, such as 'Question to Answer' can be as near to another cache as you wish. Even at the same co-ords...

 

There was a discussion on the US side of the forums, and given the right conditions 'Question to Answer' 'Reference Point' 'Bogus co-ords' for a puzzle cache etc., you can get around three or four icons all posted at the same spot on a map!

 

Cheers. I think my coords won't be exactly on top of the existing cache, just a bit closer then 0.1 miles.

 

I think there's a bit of muddle going on in this thread (and it gets really confusing)

 

The start (or any part of a multi) as I see it can be at EXACTLY the same coordinates as any existing cache.

 

The physical cache needs to be 0.1 away.

Edited June 16, 2010 by The Other Stu

[+Mark+Karen]

I know what you mean. A series where each is a physical cache vs a multi where it's based on observation at particular points. Mine will be of the latter type.

[Deceangi]

Thanks. So you are saying that the first stage can be as close as I like to other existing caches? If so, great!

 

PS. I only want to put it in that location as it's the main square in the town and hence a logical starting point since it's very well known and close to parking etc.

 

Any 'non physical' part of a cache, such as 'Question to Answer' can be as near to another cache as you wish. Even at the same co-ords...

 

There was a discussion on the US side of the forums, and given the right conditions 'Question to Answer' 'Reference Point' 'Bogus co-ords' for a puzzle cache etc., you can get around three or four icons all posted at the same spot on a map!

 

Cheers. I think my coords won't be exactly on top of the existing cache, just a bit closer then 0.1 miles.

 

I think there's a bit of muddle going on in this thread (and it gets really confusing)

 

The start (or any part of a multi) as I see it can be at EXACTLY the same coordinates as any existing cache.

 

The physical cache needs to be 0.1 away.

 

ISTR that "series" used to be setup with x number of caches. By visiting each cache and getting some information, the final would be a "Puzzle" or "Other".

 

Nowadays, the final is seen as a Multi because you have to get lots of information to find the cache, but there's no puzzle involved in getting the coordinates?

 

Ok here's a rough guide.

 

Traditional Cache: At the Page Coordinates.

 

Multi Cache: A requirement to visit more than one location, to obtain information resulting in the coordinates of the Final Container (which holds the log book)

 

There are 2 types of stages for a Multi

 

Virtual: There is nothing at the location placed by the cache owner. This type could involve obtaining information off a Display, or counting the number of objects at the location. This type is not subject to Proximity, and is listed as a Q2A-Question to Answer

 

Physical: This involves a physical container/object placed by the cache owner. The container could hold a piece of information such as a colour or letter, or all/part of the coordinates for the final container. Alternative this could be a tag of some sort with information on it needed to obtain the coordinates for the Final container. This type is subject to Proximity, and is listed as a SoaM-Stage of a Multi.

 

Puzzle: This is a catch all type.

 

Where there is a requirement to solve a Off Site Puzzle, it falls in this category [if it's just manipulation of data collected at a stage of the cache, then it's not a Puzzle but a Multi]

 

Where there is a requirement to find other independently loggable cache(s) to obtain the information needed to find the cache (making it a Bonus cache) then it is listed as a Puzzle cache.

 

Letterbox Hybrid: This is the Mongrel/Heinz type of cache. It can be Traditional at the page coordinates It can be a Multi involving more than one location. It can be a Puzzle requiring a Off Site puzzle to be solved. You can even throw in elements such as pace notes.

 

But and this is a big but! There has to be usage of a GPS to find at least one location, which is not a Parking Location or Trail Head. And there must be a Stamp as a Permanent part of the cache contents, along with the log book.

 

Wherigo Hybrid: This requires the usage of a Wherigo Cartridge, which is listed on the Wherigo site. To lead to a Physical Container holding the Log Book.

[+The Other Stu]

Thanks. So you are saying that the first stage can be as close as I like to other existing caches? If so, great!

 

PS. I only want to put it in that location as it's the main square in the town and hence a logical starting point since it's very well known and close to parking etc.

 

Any 'non physical' part of a cache, such as 'Question to Answer' can be as near to another cache as you wish. Even at the same co-ords...

 

There was a discussion on the US side of the forums, and given the right conditions 'Question to Answer' 'Reference Point' 'Bogus co-ords' for a puzzle cache etc., you can get around three or four icons all posted at the same spot on a map!

 

Cheers. I think my coords won't be exactly on top of the existing cache, just a bit closer then 0.1 miles.

 

I think there's a bit of muddle going on in this thread (and it gets really confusing)

 

The start (or any part of a multi) as I see it can be at EXACTLY the same coordinates as any existing cache.

 

The physical cache needs to be 0.1 away.

 

Ok here's a rough guide.

 

Traditional Cache: At the Page Coordinates.

 

Multi Cache: A requirement to visit more than one location, to obtain information resulting in the coordinates of the Final Container (which holds the log book)

 

There are 2 types of stages for a Multi

 

Virtual: There is nothing at the location placed by the cache owner. This type could involve obtaining information off a Display, or counting the number of objects at the location. This type is not subject to Proximity, and is listed as a Q2A-Question to Answer

 

Physical: This involves a physical container/object placed by the cache owner. The container could hold a piece of information such as a colour or letter, or all/part of the coordinates for the final container. Alternative this could be a tag of some sort with information on it needed to obtain the coordinates for the Final container. This type is subject to Proximity, and is listed as a SoaM-Stage of a Multi.

 

Puzzle: This is a catch all type.

 

Where there is a requirement to solve a Off Site Puzzle, it falls in this category [if it's just manipulation of data collected at a stage of the cache, then it's not a Puzzle but a Multi]

 

Where there is a requirement to find other independently loggable cache(s) to obtain the information needed to find the cache (making it a Bonus cache) then it is listed as a Puzzle cache.

 

Letterbox Hybrid: This is the Mongrel/Heinz type of cache. It can be Traditional at the page coordinates It can be a Multi involving more than one location. It can be a Puzzle requiring a Off Site puzzle to be solved. You can even throw in elements such as pace notes.

 

But and this is a big but! There has to be usage of a GPS to find at least one location, which is not a Parking Location or Trail Head. And there must be a Stamp as a Permanent part of the cache contents, along with the log book.

 

Wherigo Hybrid: This requires the usage of a Wherigo Cartridge, which is listed on the Wherigo site. To lead to a Physical Container holding the Log Book.

 

I'll remove the rubbish bit of my initial. Thanks Deci.

[+redsox_mark]

Thanks. So you are saying that the first stage can be as close as I like to other existing caches? If so, great!

 

PS. I only want to put it in that location as it's the main square in the town and hence a logical starting point since it's very well known and close to parking etc.

 

Any 'non physical' part of a cache, such as 'Question to Answer' can be as near to another cache as you wish. Even at the same co-ords...

 

There was a discussion on the US side of the forums, and given the right conditions 'Question to Answer' 'Reference Point' 'Bogus co-ords' for a puzzle cache etc., you can get around three or four icons all posted at the same spot on a map!

 

Cheers. I think my coords won't be exactly on top of the existing cache, just a bit closer then 0.1 miles.

 

I think there's a bit of muddle going on in this thread (and it gets really confusing)

 

The start (or any part of a multi) as I see it can be at EXACTLY the same coordinates as any existing cache.

 

The physical cache needs to be 0.1 away.

 

That is correct, though it can mean one icon totally covering another on the map (if it is virtual/puzzle posted coordinates the same place as another cache). There is no guideline against that as far as I can see; but it seems good practice to try and avoid that.

[+Delta68]

 

The start (or any part of a multi) as I see it can be at EXACTLY the same coordinates as any existing cache.

 

 

That is correct, though it can mean one icon totally covering another on the map (if it is virtual/puzzle posted coordinates the same place as another cache). There is no guideline against that as far as I can see; but it seems good practice to try and avoid that.

 

Indeed. Best not to list multiple caches at the same co-ords.

 

We listed a pair of puzzles once where the fake co-ords were the suggested parking (same for both). The reviewer asked us to move one slightly so they didn't over lap

 

They sometimes get moved after publication:

link

 

However, recent guidelines about a Multi's listed co-ords must be the starting point, (a good idea) could mean that they overlap a Trad or another Multi

 

M

[Deceangi]

 

The start (or any part of a multi) as I see it can be at EXACTLY the same coordinates as any existing cache.

 

 

That is correct, though it can mean one icon totally covering another on the map (if it is virtual/puzzle posted coordinates the same place as another cache). There is no guideline against that as far as I can see; but it seems good practice to try and avoid that.

 

Indeed. Best not to list multiple caches at the same co-ords.

 

We listed a pair of puzzles once where the fake co-ords were the suggested parking (same for both). The reviewer asked us to move one slightly so they didn't over lap

 

They sometimes get moved after publication:

link

 

However, recent guidelines about a Multi's listed co-ords must be the starting point, (a good idea) could mean that they overlap a Trad or another Multi

 

M

 

just changing the last digit up or down by 2 on both the latitude and longitude is enough to create separation, and still fall within GPS error. So not a issue for Virtual stages.

 

Mind you as far as I'm personally concerned coordinates out by 13ft/4m is fine for a physical stage. But some people seem to think that's a disgrace . Good job they weren't geocaching in the very early days of the hobby when 90ft/30m error was common and acceptable

 

Deci

[+redsox_mark]

However, recent guidelines about a Multi's listed co-ords must be the starting point, (a good idea) could mean that they overlap a Trad or another Multi

 

 

Thanks - I had not noticed that. Indeed the guidelines for a multi say:

 

"The posted coordinates are for the first stage"

 

Luckily both my multi-cache hides comply.

[+Gushoneybun]

That is correct, though it can mean one icon totally covering another on the map (if it is virtual/puzzle posted coordinates the same place as another cache). There is no guideline against that as far as I can see; but it seems good practice to try and avoid that.

 

 

Do consider someone not from the area, they may only see one cache on the map view and go for that missing the one underneath so I think it best to move them apart a little.

[GerritS]

Ignoring the rules (Sorry Deci)..

 

Please where possible separate waypoints as much as possible. Opposite ends/ sides of car parks if fine by me, I tend to cache addhoc down load a pocket query and go find.

 

It is confusing to find that people have used the exact same coordinates for something, on the same cache or not. Parking seems to be a favorite.

 

For Question to answer maybe you can say looking around you can see a...

Or across the street there is...

Around here you will find (gives a bit more cryptic feel?)...

 

Just ideas to help make a more pleasant days caching...

Edited June 17, 2010 by GerritS

[+Mark+Karen]

Thanks for all the help. I'll have a bit of fun putting together the cache now!

 

What I won't do for a stage is like I found in Zurich where it was "The number I painted on the wall here"... Just to find evidence that something had recently been cleaned off said wall!