Translation..

[foxtrot_xray]

So I'm having a little trouble deciphering the location notes for this mark:

 

 JV4471'DESCRIBED BY WASH SUBURB SAN COMM 1969
JV4471'THE STATION IS ABOUT 1 MILE SOUTHEAST OF BLOCKTOWN AND IN THE
JV4471'TOWN OF BOYDS.
JV4471'
JV4471'THE STATION IS LOCATED ON THE SOUTH SIDE OF THE B AND O BRIDGE
JV4471'OVER ROUTE 117.
JV4471'
JV4471'THE STATION MARK IS A BRASS BOLT SET FLUSH IN THE CENTERLINE
JV4471'OF A CONCRETE SLAB.

The first paragraph, okay, easy. The second is some-what more precise. However, the "south side" of the bridge is along the length of the bridge, not along either end, so it's a wide path.

 

I did a cursory search, looking at the head-walls on bot ends and over the railing of the bridge, and the station's not there. Also, in case they mis-typed, I did the same search along the north edge of the bridge.

 

Now, I realize that this is nothing near the problems most of you have tried to figure out before, using projections and mathematical formulas, so this one should be easy.

 

I've seen references to "centerline of the road" distances before, however, I'm not sure how to translate "centerline of a concrete slab". The bridge appears to be poured concrete, with crack-lines in it in various places. (The railing, all cement, for example, has about 15 crack-lines in it across it's length.)

 

The coordinates seem to place it in the area of the bridge where a third mainline would go, on the TOP of the floor of the bridge.

 

I'm only questioning this because I have never seen this particular placement before, and it doesn't seem to sit right. Maybe I'm over-thinking it.

 

-Mike.

[2oldfarts (the rockhounders)]

It sounds as though the mark is might be set in the edge of the roadway. The concrete slabs for the bridge most likely are longer along the length of the bridge. You will need to determine where the mid-line of the slab is and the compare the Adjusted coordinates to said mid-line of that slab. Is the slab partially covered by the concrete wall/railing? You would need to take that into consideration when determining the centerline of the slab. Might the bolt actually be set in the roadway?

 

Could the bolt be set "vertically" in the railing?

 

Adjusted coordinates should reduce the area that needs to be searched to about 8 to 10 either direction from ground zero along that particular concrete slab.

 

Good luck,

 

John

[TillaMurphs]

Mike,

 

Congratulations on finding it!

[foxtrot_xray]

Thanks for the notes -

 

I actually found it, using a different method of searching. Realizing the coords were adjusted and pretty darn accurate, I used Google Earth to print out some zoomed-in photos of the area. Did some photoshopping to bring out objects, and then went back over to find it.

 

Using the imagery, I found that from a marked tie in the rails, it should be twelve ties over. Started digging the ballast aside, and sure enough, found it. It WAS embedded directly in to the 'floor' of the bridge, which is rather unusual. Two shots of it and where it was in the bridge here.

[Difficult Run]

I wonder if the description is off. - It looks more like a Monel-Metal Rivet.

 

Nicely done,

~ Mitch ~

[kayakbird]

FX,

 

Looks like you had it nicely pinpointed and did not have to move much ballast - that stuff usually runs back in as fast as I can shovel.

 

Which "centerline" did it end up being on? 1/2 way between slab joints along the run of the tracks? Or something else? MEL

[foxtrot_xray]

I wonder if the description is off. - It looks more like a Monel-Metal Rivet.

Any WSSC-placed station that's not a disk (and very few are), they seemed to like these bolt-rivet-screw things. They're ALL the same (at least the ones I've found so far), but in sheets I've seen them referred to as "bolts", "screws" and "rivets". If there *IS* a difference, you can't tell by looking at them. SOMETIMES, there will be a washer of some sort underneath the head that will have stamping on it. (This one did not.)

 

Looks like you had it nicely pinpointed and did not have to move much ballast - that stuff usually runs back in as fast as I can shovel.

 

Which "centerline" did it end up being on? 1/2 way between slab joints along the run of the tracks? Or something else? MEL

It wasn't that hard in this case since the ballast was only a few inches deep and on flat surface.

 

As for the centerline - I never bothered to find out. (I know, bad of me!) Mainly I didn't want to have to push all that ballast out of the way for an unknown distance, and it possibly be even the wrong direction (ie: parallel to the tracks or perpendicular to the tracks.)

 

I may go back sometime to find out, but now I got other stations that seem odd to go hunt down.

[AZcachemeister]

I wonder if the description is off. - It looks more like a Monel-Metal Rivet.

 

Nicely done,

~ Mitch ~

 

All I can say is that's a 'standard' monel rivet, and NOT a brass bolt.

 

I ran into the same situation just last week at the Willamette stone...I found a stainless steel disk, NOT a dressed vertical stone monument with a brass screw at the apex.

[kayakbird]

Was the old technique of a leaded in brass/copper bolt still in use in 1969? I'm thinking that

"JV4471'THE STATION MARK IS A BRASS BOLT SET FLUSH ----"

is just another example of a DS "clerical error".

 

When was the WILLAMETTE STONE first 'inhanced'? Original description makes no mention

of a screw or side inscriptions.

lines deleted

RD3152''DESCRIBED BY US GOVERNMENT LAND OFFICE 1903 (OBF)

RD3152''EXACTLY ON THE COUNTY LINE, AT THE INITIAL INTERSECTION OF THE

RD3152''WILLAMETTE BASE AND THE WILLAMETTE MERIDIAN, A SHORT DISTANCE SE OF

RD3152''STATION BARNES. THE STATION IS IN A FENCE CORNER AND IS MARKED BY

RD3152''A STONE POST PROJECTING 1-1/2 FEET ABOVE GROUND.

lines deleted

RD3152 STATION RECOVERY (1937)

lines deleted

RD3152'STATION IS AT FENCE INTERSECTION AND IS MARKED BY BRASS SCREW

lines deleted

RD3152 STATION RECOVERY (1952)

RD3152

RD3152'RECOVERY NOTE BY COAST AND GEODETIC SURVEY 1952 (ANS)

RD3152'THE STATION WAS RECOVERED AND THE MARK WAS FOUND TO BE IN FAIR

RD3152'CONDITION. THE LOCATION OF THE STATION IS NOW A SMALL PARK, THE

lines deleted

RD3152'IN THE PAST THE MARK WAS BROKEN OFF AT THE TOP BY VANDALS, BUT ALL

RD3152'THE PIECES WERE RECOVERED AND HAVE BEEN CEMENTED IN PLACE.

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RD3152'THE STATION MARK IS AN 8-INCH SQUARE STONE POST, BEVELED AT THE

RD3152'TOP, PROJECTING 16 INCHES ABOVE THE GROUND. BASE LINE IS ENGRAVED

RD3152'ON THE E AND W SIDES AND WIL MER ON THE N AND S SIDES. A SMALL

RD3152'HOLE WHERE THE BRASS SCREW HAD BEEN SET IS IN THE APEX OF THE

RD3152'STONE.

lines deleted

 

I would suggest that the crosshairs here are as accurate as many of the non-documented changes in many other old stations.

RD3152

 

SAMPLE FROM A TO BE UNNAMED DATA SHEET.

HISTORY - Date Condition Report By

HISTORY - 1834 MONUMENTED CGS

HISTORY - 1914 SEE DESCRIPTION CGS

HISTORY - 1931 SEE DESCRIPTION CGS

HISTORY - 1932 SEE DESCRIPTION CGS

HISTORY - 1961 SEE DESCRIPTION CGS

 

DESCRIBED BY COAST AND GEODETIC SURVEY 1914

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ESTABLISHED IN 1834 WAS RECOVERED IN 1882, THE REFERENCE MARKS

BEING IDENTIFIED, DISTANCES MEASURED AND UPON DIGGING THE CONE STATION

MARK BEING RECOVERED. CONE WAS GLAZED EARTHENWARE,

ABOUT 6 INCHES IN DIAMETER, BURIED LARGER END UP, ABOUT 2.2

FEET BELOW SURFACE OF GROUND. IT WAS RECOVERED IN 1904, AND

AGAIN IN 1908. PROBABLY ALSO IN 1914, BUT THE DESCRIPTION OF

THAT DATE DOES NOT STATE THAT CONE WAS DUG FOR. IN 1882 A

WOODEN STUB WITH TACK IN TOP WAS CENTERED IN THE CONE.

lines deleted

HISTORY - 1961 SEE DESCRIPTION CGS

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CONDITION. STATION IS A BRONZE NAIL HEAD PROTRUDING ABOUT 1/8

INCH ABOVE FLAT TOP SURFACE OF CYLINDRICAL CONCRETE POST ABOUT

8 INCHES IN DIAMETER. POSTS TOP SURFACE IS ABOUT 8 INCHES

BELOW LEVEL OF GROUND.

lines deleted

 

Rocket science perfect or not, the enjoyment for me is the map research and

then a successful approach to the location and using the on ground clues for

a FOUND or NOT FOUND recovery to NGS. (I DO NOT enjoy doing the recoveries!) MEL

[foxtrot_xray]

Was the old technique of a leaded in brass/copper bolt still in use in 1969? I'm thinking that

"JV4471'THE STATION MARK IS A BRASS BOLT SET FLUSH ----"

is just another example of a DS "clerical error".

.. Could be. It's a round-head, I'd say reminds me much more of a rivet. However, there's another nearby marker of the same type, except that in its description there's no mention of the type of marker set. The DS summary simply has "Bolt", so i can't compare using that method here.

[+TheBeanTeam]

 

When was the WILLAMETTE STONE first 'inhanced'? Original description makes no mention

of a screw or side inscriptions.

 

 

Don't know about the first enhancement but the most recent one was 1988. There is an interesting thread about the Willamette Stone that has some wonderful points and insights.

 

I really like post 25 but the entire thread is interesting.

 

It is a wonderful place to visit.

 

Apologies for taking the topic further off.

 

On Topic.

It may very well be a typo that is the issue. We have all seen errors in some form or other. I had one that was listed in the wrong county and state that I found. An error between bolt and rivet or even regional terminology may be it.

[TillaMurphs]

I ran into the same situation just last week at the Willamette stone...

 

You came out to Oregon and did not stop by to say Hi??? Next time, don't be a stranger.