Is FTF REALLY that important to people?

[+Tobias & Petronella]

As someone that has enough FTFs to be called a hound I think I can talk about the first question: Is FTF REALLY that important to people?

 

For some people it is. IMO they go after FTFs for all the wrong reasons. For me and my wife, we have our reasons but most importantly we see it as a "GAME". Last year I wrote what getting an FTF is like and here is the link to it http://forums.Groundspeak.com/GC/index.php...t&p=4007918 and after all this time, I still agree with what I wrote.

 

As I see it, we are playing with other peoples stuff and should treat it with respect. I hate to say it, but there are some geocachers out there that I wouldn't trust with a rock and a stick. They would most likely lose the rock and break the stick. However at the same time, if the cache is outside, there is a very good chance it will get water in it, no matter what is done. That is if it rains in that area.

 

I have poured water out of Ammo cans, Lock & locks and even a Bison tube (the log was pulp). I'm not sure how it got in to these air tight caches, but it happened. And the big problem is, once a little water gets into the container and gets sealed, nature takes over. Rust, mold and other nasty things start to take place.

 

On that other post that I wrote about what Getting a FTF is like, the third line is "Seeing the cache as the CO wanted you to see it." And the second part to that (which I didn't write) is "Because with in a few weeks, it could be trashed".

 

With all this been said, I hope this does not stop you from putting out more caches. The one thing this game needs more of, is creative hides and caches.

 

Tobias

[+Don_J]

If your cache can't stand up to the elements where it is placed, it needs a better container.

 

It's not a problem with the container. It is water tight. The problem is the irresponsible cachers causing the cache to get wet.

 

If you go back and read the original message you would see that.

 

The problem isn't "irresponsible" geocachers. The problem is that your request is not reasonable.

 

Geocaching is an outdoor game. If your cache is so delicate that it can't stand up to regular wear-and-tear, which includes geocachers finding it in all weather conditions, it needs a better container or it needs to be archived.

 

It sounds to me like you want to own a geocache, but you don't want to take on the responsibility of maintaining it.

 

If you know of a container that can sit out in the rain for a half hour, with it's lid off, and not get wet, please provide a link. I'd like to buy a few.

[+Don_J]

 

He's not asking for people to be careful in the rain - something any sensible geocacher will do without being asked. He's demanding that people not find his cache in the rain.

 

It's not just FTF hunters who are going to ignore that request. Geocaching is an outdoor game!

 

The cache should be able to stand up to the rain. Keep the log in plastic bags, and put in another large ziplock for swag.

 

It's obvious that you never read the original post. Why do you continue to comment?

[+L0ne.R]

ok maybe you are missing the point. The container is 65 L. Its HUGE for a cache. Because the cache requires people to have the lid off while they search is why the request was made. Its only common sense that if its raining and you have the lid of the cache off for more than a few seconds, (and its going to takemore than a few seconds to hunt through 276 plastic eggs for the log book) its going to get wet inside. Not pleasant for the next cacher, or their small child who is excited about the idea of hunting through the eggs but has to deal with 1 or 2 inches of water in the bottom of the cache because the last guy has no respect for the cache because he does not have to maintain it.

 

Again, if you had read my earlier posts, you will see that I in fact DO maintain my caches as well as those of others that I come across. Thats not the issue. Its the fact that they didn't seem to care if the cache got wet or not.

 

If it would have gotten muggled, fine. I can deal with that. It Happens. But when people do not have enough common sense to at least cover the cache with an umbrella or something while they are looking instead of letting it just sit there are collect water, thats where my problem is.

 

It sounds like a fun cache. Somewhat fragile but definitely fun. I can understand how some of the comments are suggesting that a cache outdoors needs to hold up to rain even when opened. The smaller caches are easier to protect in the rain by hovering over the cache and covering it with our body. Tough to do with a 64L box. Tough to hold onto an umbrella and look through the cache at the same time. Plus the umbrella may not be big enough to cover the whole box (I know I know.... if people refrain from opening it in the rain, that wouldn't be an issue). I can see how someone might not want to abort the mission when faced with such a tantalizing find, perhaps they don't have the opportunity to come back to try again.

 

Is there anyway you can poke small holes near the bottom 1/2" of the cache to allow for drainage but somehow prevent water from seeping in? Can you put it up on bricks? Or maybe layer some evergreen branches under it to allow for drainage but not allow water to seep in from off the ground? How about a spigot at the bottom of the box for drainage?

[+California66er]

ok maybe you are missing the point. The container is 65 L. Its HUGE for a cache. Because the cache requires people to have the lid off while they search is why the request was made. Its only common sense that if its raining and you have the lid of the cache off for more than a few seconds, (and its going to takemore than a few seconds to hunt through 276 plastic eggs for the log book) its going to get wet inside. Not pleasant for the next cacher, or their small child who is excited about the idea of hunting through the eggs but has to deal with 1 or 2 inches of water in the bottom of the cache because the last guy has no respect for the cache because he does not have to maintain it.

 

Again, if you had read my earlier posts, you will see that I in fact DO maintain my caches as well as those of others that I come across. Thats not the issue. Its the fact that they didn't seem to care if the cache got wet or not.

 

If it would have gotten muggled, fine. I can deal with that. It Happens. But when people do not have enough common sense to at least cover the cache with an umbrella or something while they are looking instead of letting it just sit there are collect water, thats where my problem is.

 

It sounds like a fun cache. Somewhat fragile but definitely fun. I can understand how some of the comments are suggesting that a cache outdoors needs to hold up to rain even when opened. The smaller caches are easier to protect in the rain by hovering over the cache and covering it with our body. Tough to do with a 64L box. Tough to hold onto an umbrella and look through the cache at the same time. Plus the umbrella may not be big enough to cover the whole box (I know I know.... if people refrain from opening it in the rain, that wouldn't be an issue). I can see how someone might not want to abort the mission when faced with such a tantalizing find, perhaps they don't have the opportunity to come back to try again.

 

Is there anyway you can poke small holes near the bottom 1/2" of the cache to allow for drainage but somehow prevent water from seeping in? Can you put it up on bricks? Or maybe layer some evergreen branches under it to allow for drainage but not allow water to seep in from off the ground? How about a spigot at the bottom of the box for drainage?

 

Please do not offer solutions. This thread has been reserved for finger-pointing and vitriol.

[+NeecesandNephews]

I know of NO container that will prevent the cache contents from getting wet if it is open. If someone does, please share a link to where I can purchase it. I am not talking about water resistant/proof logbooks. The focus of criticism seems to be on his container.

 

Shaner... relax buddy... you are not wrong for asking someone to be sensible about exposing your OPEN cache to the elements. Common sense would permit the foregone conclusion that it is not even necessary to ask.

 

But then... clearly common sense is not a given, when referring to cachers.

 

The angst you feel (while some think it outrageous) is understandable to me. But I am afraid it comes with the game.

 

While I find no fault with your cache, nor your request, I would try to find any method available to limit the harm done in this instance. It may not be possible, but I hope you took every precaution available. Like perhaps hiding it under a shelter or canopy of some sort.

 

Most of the caches (I dare not say all, for fear someone will jump to challenge me to test them) I have found would be ruined if left open for any length of time in inclement weather without sheltering them for the duration.

Edited March 25, 2010 by NeecesandNephews

[+sxrxnrr]

I just had a cache approved yesterday. The cache is a 65 L storage tote filled with little plastic easter eggs. Inside one of the eggs is the log book. I made it a fun little easter egg hunt for the upcoming holiday. It was mainly placed for families and small children to have a fun time at.

 

I had also requested on the cache page that it not be looked for when it rains, due to the fact I did not want the contents to get wet while the lid was off while they searched for the egg with the log book in it. Otherwise it would be all wet for the next cacher(s)

 

But wouldn't you know it, the day it gets published, it also rains. But that did not stop a handfull of cachers from going out to look for it so they could try and log an FTF! The worst part was one of the guys that went out was a friend of mine that I work with!! Even when he logged the find he wrote:

 

"I decided to break the rule and go for this one anyway" Nice.

 

The last log on the page (I think it was the 5th guy that day) let me know that the inside of the cache was wet already.

 

Well....in less than 10 hours of being published, it looks as though I need to go out and do some maintenence already and go dry it out so the next cacher does not have to deal with it.

 

So my question is: Is being the FTF really that important to people that they would rather get that first log than care about what shape the cache is in when they are done? I realize that it was only a request on my part not to do any rain caching, but would you not think the CO requested that for a reason?

 

Am I complaining for nothing?? Or do I have a point??

 

I guess maybe it's beacause I don't care about FTF's. I'll get to the caches, when I get to the caches. There is no $1,000,000 prize for being the first one there, so I don't understand the motivation. Outside of the childish "I got here first....I got here first...yooouuuu didn't! HA HA you suck!"

[+Shaner316]

Well after about an hour of maintenance, I finally have the cache and all 276 eggs dried off.

 

The cache sounded like a good idea, but perhaps in hindsight maybe not. I think I'll just let it be for now, and if it gets wet again, just replace it with a small container with just a log book in it. I hate to do that as everyone who has found it has really enjoyed it. (Even got a few emails personally thanking me for the fun they and their families had during the egg search)

 

No wonder micros are so popular!! LOL

Edited March 25, 2010 by Shaner316

[+sxrxnrr]

Looks like you are STILL upset about this even after you told your coworker (my husband) that it was no big deal!!! It seemed as though the request not to do this in the rain was for our own safety as it is a higher terrain (and wasn't) NOT for any other reason. There are MANY caches of this same type around and we they do not have this REQUEST on their cache page. Infact, one of the FTFers has one himself! If you are not happy with how the cache IS then get rid of it! Nobody is stopping you.

For someone who is NEW to this sport you are not going to make many friends calling us "childish, irresponsible, having no respect, OR no common sense" or going on this site to bad mouth your finders. Not sure I will go looking for your next one raining or not!!!

Maybe you should choose your words more carefully before posting them on the internet

-Jill

[+modnar24]

It sounds like a fun cache. Somewhat fragile but definitely fun. I can understand how some of the comments are suggesting that a cache outdoors needs to hold up to rain even when opened. The smaller caches are easier to protect in the rain by hovering over the cache and covering it with our body. Tough to do with a 64L box. Tough to hold onto an umbrella and look through the cache at the same time. Plus the umbrella may not be big enough to cover the whole box (I know I know.... if people refrain from opening it in the rain, that wouldn't be an issue). I can see how someone might not want to abort the mission when faced with such a tantalizing find, perhaps they don't have the opportunity to come back to try again.

 

Is there anyway you can poke small holes near the bottom 1/2" of the cache to allow for drainage but somehow prevent water from seeping in? Can you put it up on bricks? Or maybe layer some evergreen branches under it to allow for drainage but not allow water to seep in from off the ground? How about a spigot at the bottom of the box for drainage?

 

This was my first thought. If you're not worried about the log getting wet, why not just put a drain hole in so the water doesn't collect. FTF really is that important to some people. If it wasn't, I don't think we'd see nearly as much conversation about it here. It seems to me that you had not just one person disregard your request, but several people that knew the others would also be attempting to get that FTF. Maybe they just enjoy caching in the rain. I know I have the most fun caching by flashlight at 4am. Hopefully, now that that initial shock is over, it follows the family aspect of the game and is only opened in better weather. While the cache sounds like it's really cool and kids would have a lot of fun hunting through the eggs, I think I would find it frustrating.

 

M24

[+JoesBar]

To Shaner316; Sadly, some folks don't care about your requests. Be it, 'don't park here', 'don't walk there', 'only hunt during these times.' Since this hobby involves alot of anonymity, there is little risk from cachers that just do as they please.

Consider these forums, since we all get to sit in the comfort of our homes and post anything we want, we will. If there was the risk of being punched in the nose for being a jerk, these forums would be civil.

I appreciate your intent in hiding this cache, but you overestimated human nature.

Edited March 26, 2010 by JoesBar

[+Shaner316]

Looks like you are STILL upset about this even after you told your coworker (my husband) that it was no big deal!!! It seemed as though the request not to do this in the rain was for our own safety as it is a higher terrain (and wasn't) NOT for any other reason. There are MANY caches of this same type around and we they do not have this REQUEST on their cache page. Infact, one of the FTFers has one himself! If you are not happy with how the cache IS then get rid of it! Nobody is stopping you.

For someone who is NEW to this sport you are not going to make many friends calling us "childish, irresponsible, having no respect, OR no common sense" or going on this site to bad mouth your finders. Not sure I will go looking for your next one raining or not!!!

Maybe you should choose your words more carefully before posting them on the internet

-Jill

 

I told him that becasue he was not the only one, and the dammage was already done.

 

There was never any mention of 'terrain' anywhere, so I don't know where that is coming from. (And if there was a terrain issue, which there is not, appartently the FTF would have been more important than your own safety by the sounds of it anyway)

 

I am very happy with the way the cache is, just not the state it was left in.

 

If you had gotten to the cache the next day with Geobabe, would you have let him pick through all the muck, water, sticks, leaves and dirt? Or is it fair to leave the cache in that state for the next finders small child?

 

Probably not.

 

Heck I even told him to apologise to YOU about the cache, because I heard you had a head full of burrs you received at the cache. I had no control over you getting them and I STILL said sorry. So don't say I dont respect my fellow cachers.

 

I was just upset about how the cache was treated. I would not do that to someone elses cache. For example, I found one of your husbands just the other day. It was soaking wet inside and the log was damp, so what did I do?? What any reasonable cacher would do. I dried it out, placed a new, dry log book in it, and enclosed it all in a brand new zip lock, leaving it in better shape than I had found it. Not the other way around.

 

Im just trying to make sure my caches (and every other one I come across) are as dry and as much fun for the next guy as possible. Maybe expecting others to do the same is just plain silly

[+Shaner316]

To Shaner316; Sadly, some folks don't care about your requests. Be it, 'don't park here', 'don't walk there', 'only hunt during these times.' Since this hobby involves alot of anonymity, there is little risk from cachers that just do as they please.

Consider these forums, since we all get to sit in the comfort of our homes and post anything we want, we will. If there was the risk of being punched in the nose for being a jerk, these forums would be civil.

I appreciate your intent in hiding this cache, but you underestimated human nature.

 

Yes, apparently I do

[+Crow-T-Robot]

But when people do not have enough common sense to at least cover the cache with an umbrella or something while they are looking instead of letting it just sit there are collect water, thats where my problem is.

 

You should have placed the cache in a way so that it could be opened and gone through, even in a driving rainstorm, without getting wet. A shelter, a cave, an abandoned structure, a large hollow tree, etc. You can't just plop it down in the middle of the woods, post a request on the cache page and then berate the finders when the contents get wet. As an owner, you also need to have enough common sense when you place your cache. As you've learned, a few words on a webpage won't create a magical barrier against the weather and it won't stop cachers from finding your cache when you requested them not to.

[+Knight2000]

FTF is a religion for some people.

Then we need to put an end to that agenda pushing practice.

Apparently so. I used to leave tracts in caches trying to get cachers to repent and go therefore to ye FTF but apparently it offended someone and they started a thread on it. You can't please everyone!

[+thedeadpirate]

But when people do not have enough common sense to at least cover the cache with an umbrella or something while they are looking instead of letting it just sit there are collect water, thats where my problem is.

 

You should have placed the cache in a way so that it could be opened and gone through, even in a driving rainstorm, without getting wet. A shelter, a cave, an abandoned structure, a large hollow tree, etc. You can't just plop it down in the middle of the woods, post a request on the cache page and then berate the finders when the contents get wet. As an owner, you also need to have enough common sense when you place your cache. As you've learned, a few words on a webpage won't create a magical barrier against the weather and it won't stop cachers from finding your cache when you requested them not to.

 

I gotta agree with this.

 

Covering an ammo can is one thing. But when you have what amounts to a large trash can sized container filled with eggs that you know will have to be dumped out on the ground in order to look through each egg, then you need to place it in a location that offers some built in shelter.

 

You can't take it to your car. And you can't dig through it upright. (assuming the basic size and shape are what I am envisioning)

 

It seems to me that you are going to wind up with dirt and debris inside this thing even if it's only opened in dry conditions.

[+TheAlabamaRambler]

"muck, water, sticks, leaves and dirt?"

Otay, I admit to not following the thread closely lately, but "muck, water, sticks, leaves and dirt" in a new cache isn't careless cachers, there's gotta be more to it than that.

Oops, sorry, the last post clarified it.

 

Move along, nothing to see here!

Edited March 25, 2010 by TheAlabamaRambler

[+bittsen]

The bottom line boils down to this.

 

If you are going to get upset by people looking for your cache their way, on their schedule, then you might not want to hide caches.

 

You place a cache and hope for the best. You can't get 3-4 million people to play your way even if it is your cache.

 

Either give up the high hopes or be prepared for the internal angst but nobody is really going to pat you on the back and say "there there".

[+Shaner316]

Looks like you are STILL upset about this even after you told your coworker (my husband) that it was no big deal!!! It seemed as though the request not to do this in the rain was for our own safety as it is a higher terrain (and wasn't) NOT for any other reason. There are MANY caches of this same type around and we they do not have this REQUEST on their cache page. Infact, one of the FTFers has one himself! If you are not happy with how the cache IS then get rid of it! Nobody is stopping you.

For someone who is NEW to this sport you are not going to make many friends calling us "childish, irresponsible, having no respect, OR no common sense" or going on this site to bad mouth your finders. Not sure I will go looking for your next one raining or not!!!

Maybe you should choose your words more carefully before posting them on the internet

-Jill

 

You know what? You are right! You are ALL right!

 

I don't know what I'm doing, and my caches are apparently not very good. I'm just going to change the whole cache then I don't have to worry about it. So once again I appologise to every one.

 

I'm very sorry.

[+Renegade Knight]

..."I decided to break the rule and go for this one anyway" Nice....Am I complaining for nothing?? Or do I have a point??...

 

First, for some the FTF is a powerful part of their fun. To each their own.

For others, the find itself is the end all be all.

 

Both will happily break your "hey, lets not do this on in the rain rule" and screw up your cache because of their own self interest. They will rationalize it by saying "they should have thought of the rain" blah, blah, blah.

 

The truth is simpler. They are too selfish to do the right thing and make your job as a cache owner easier so that you are encouraged to keep putting out unique and fun caches for them to find. They are too focused on their fun "right now" to encourage their own long term fun.

 

That said, it's like pissing into the wind for all the results you will get.

[+Renegade Knight]

...

You know what? You are right! You are ALL right!

 

I don't know what I'm doing, and my caches are apparently not very good. I'm just going to change the whole cache then I don't have to worry about it. So once again I appologise to every one.

 

I'm very sorry.

Naaa they are all wrong. Your request was fine. It had a purpose and wasn't made just for kicks.

 

I didn't read some of the other posts until after I had commented on your orginal post but looks like I hit the nail on the head.

 

Keep in mind, respect and courtesy is more than most choose to give. That doesn't mean you shouldn't ask for it any way. You should. You just should not be suprised at the result you get. As for the discouragement remember. Most isn't all, and the some out there that get it right, are what makes it all worth while.

[+BulldogBlitz]

My guess is that you don't play sports either. Some folks are competitive. They want to 'win' and in this game FTF is a win of sorts.

 

 

i had a similar thought (as the OP), i'm new to gc, and see the FTFs and know some of the tricks to getting them. i've also seen several where the target audience was a much younger crowd. i've seen those caches targeted by a group of adults (with no kids) that are highly competitive and are racing to see which one can find a child-oriented gc first.

 

i liken them to the teenagers who have decided it is a good idea for them to hit the easter egg hunt... or halloween for trick-or-treating (no costume). competitive is one thing.... but this being a game... is just a game. michael jordan can be competitive at b-ball... or gambling... or golf - money is always on the line. this one, nah. this is begging for a dozen or more log-only caches in the worst of locations.

[+Cedar Grove Seekers]

Its the inches of water in the bottom of a huge cache that troubles me.

 

As a suggestion only, would putting some holes in the bottom of the large 65L container help to let the water drain out?

[+Shaner316]

Its the inches of water in the bottom of a huge cache that troubles me.

 

As a suggestion only, would putting some holes in the bottom of the large 65L container help to let the water drain out?

 

It was more of an issue with the water and mud ON the contents (almost 300 plastic eggs) rather than at the bottom really.

 

The problem has been solved as the 65 L container has been removed and a small cache has been left in its place. Less hassle, less maintenance. Totally takes away from what I was trying to do, but apparently it was not such a good idea.

 

The only good thing that came from it was a great learning experience about the game.

Edited March 26, 2010 by Shaner316

[+The Ravens]

FTFs are not that important to me but they are fun to "score" now and then.

[+Ralfcoder]

There is a local cacher in my area who can be counted on to be one of the first 3 finders of a new cache. He's a nice guy, but he just HAS to find whatever pops up as soon as it becomes available. He's got a lot of FTFs - so much so that he apparently ticked off someone about it.

 

He got an e-mail from someone who claimed to be a cacher moving into the area, and who was upset that my friend got a disproportional number of FTFs. The e-mail claimed the new guy would watch how many he got, and for every FTF from now on, one of my friend's caches would "disappear".

 

My friend modified his cache listings to include a copy of the e-mail, complete with the sender's e-mail address. I suspect the cretin got an earful about his plan.

 

Yeah, some people think FTFs are important.

[+larryc43230]

Retirement seems to have a strange effect on some people.

I resemble that remark.

 

--Larry